Poll: Sunday trading laws

[Castiel]

We wouldn't be able to compete in the world like we currently do and it would take massive changes. Reduce work and earning potential. I for one don't want that, as much as I would love weekends off, my earnings would probably drop by 50%.

Funny, countries such as France do not seem to be impacted that much.

I think that Sunday working should remain the exception and not the rule, the benefits of extending shopping hours to a full 24/7 model are specious at best and I think more emphasis should be put on allowing people a day where they can relax and spend time together as a family unit.

I realise that this is not practical in all instances or industries, although making Sunday voluntary is not that difficult to implement in most cases anyway (in many businesses it is already the case, or contracts specify limited Sunday working, such as 1 in 4 for example, lr they hire people on Sunday specified contracts that include Sunday as one of their work days) and would potentially create more jobs, particularly part-time positions for students and people who would rather work on a Sunday for whatever reason...... but I think a further erosion of the idea that economics should always take precedence over social cohesion is a bad idea and we should be encouraging familial and social interaction and cohesion as much as we can, especially in our society blighted by broken homes and the breakup of the family unit.

 

[Glaucus]

France works Sunday, just like the rest of the world. There infrastructure doesn't shut down, critical work doesn't shut down and aren't shops now allowed to open on Sunday's, didn't they deresteict that a few years ago?

 

[estebanrey]

France works Sunday, just like the rest of the world. There infrastructure doesn't shut down, critical work doesn't shut down and aren't shops now allowed to open on Sunday's, didn't they deresteict that a few years ago?

'Rest of the world'. I just came back from Spain and all the shops not owned by immigrants closed down at mid-day until 4 everyday for a 'siesta'.

Our trading laws are certainly not unusually restrictive.

 

[Glaucus]

'Rest of the world'. I just came back from Spain and all the shops not owned by immigrants closed down at mid-day until 4 everyday for a 'siesta'.

Our trading laws are certainly not unusually restrictive.

You need to follow the conversation. It was about extending the Sunday trading laws to include other industries.
You won't find any country that totally shuts down on a Sunday.
If we don't shut down, then there's massive amounts of people who can't spend time with families on Sunday's and as such why should one tiny group be special? What right does the government have to restrict that one groups earning power or dictate those rules to companies. As I have already said government should not have any right to do what it's doing with this. It's not safety laws, or protection, it's just prehistoric rules.

 

[ChrisJSY]

What the hell is this day of rest thing people keep blabbing on about?
YOU can rest on sunday, others may want to work, it's shouldn't be your choice or anyones if they want to.

The only problem is some people being told they now have to work on sundays, but for the most part if you're in a new job either you agree with it or don't and find a new job.
I can't see this influencing the mon-fri crowd so get over it.

Some people forget that not everyone works a mon-fri, 9-5, weekends off, this goes for everything from noisey neighbours till 11pm just because it's a law to who knows what, sucks for shift workers, night shifts, etc.
Sunday isn't everyone's day to see family.

 

[MooMoo444]

Day of rest can be taken on any day. Sunday doesn't have some magical aura that makes you replenish your batteries 3x quicker.

 

[Castiel]

France works Sunday, just like the rest of the world. There infrastructure doesn't shut down, critical work doesn't shut down and aren't shops now allowed to open on Sunday's, didn't they deresteict that a few years ago?

You are missing the point Glaucus.....no one is suggesting closing anything down......

Only giving people the right to choose without having to quit or move their jobs. Critical and essential work can continue as it always has, people are free to wok if they wish, but they retain the legal right to retain Sunday as a day of rest if they choose to. This really only effects those on zero hour or 5 ot 7 shift workong patterns where employers could effectively restrict people's access to Sunday's off with their family on a regular basis....retaining the voluntary nature of Sunday working protects them from this. Do you really have a problem with allowing people on such contracts to have the ability to request their hours are selected over the other 6 days of the week only?....

And France has very strict Sunday trading laws.....working is entirely voluntary, double time must be paid and it is only specified areas and towns that even this applies. (some exceptions remain for tourist attractions).

The point is that France operates a 'Sunday working is the exception not the rule' economic model....and it doesn't adversely impact their economy, and most people would say thenhancer othets social cohesion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...338/France-relaxes-Sunday-shopping-rules.html

 

[Glaucus]

The point is that France operates a Sunday working is the exception not the rule economic model....and it works.

it only works as its a small sector, you tried using France as an example. But France in many industries is open on Sunday, just like the Uk it has to be. As such France is not a good example for your point.
Doing what you suggest and applying it to other sectors, would limit the uk or Frances or anyone else's economic stability. Millions off jobs simply have to be done at the weekend, there's no getting away with it.

Still can't fathom why you think retail is special. As you said earlier we just aren't going to agree.

 

[Dano]

Bring back no trading on Sundays I say.

 

[[TW]Fox]

In retail terms, Sunday is just as busy as Saturday.

I worked in retail for 8 years (From the day I left school until the day I finished higher education) and this isn't what I found. Sunday was noticeably quieter than Saturday and it was nice to only have to do 6 hours rather than the 9 on a Saturday. It also reduced cost for businesses - I was often able to run the place on my own on a Sunday whereas this was totally impossible on a Saturday. We'd usually take a huge amount more money on a Saturday than on a Sunday.

I can't really see the benefit for some retailers, so even if the laws were relaxed you might find some firms continue to operate reduced trading hours on a Sunday.

 

[Castiel]

it only works as its a small sector, you tried using France as an example. But France in many industries is open on Sunday, just like the Uk it has to be. As such France is not a good example for your point.
Doing what you suggest and applying it to other sectors, would limit the uk or Frances or anyone else's economic stability. Millions off jobs simply have to be done at the weekend, there's no getting away with it.

Still can't fathom why you think retail is special. As you said earlier we just aren't going to agree.

It is a perfect example......you appear to think that I am advocating closing down operations, which I am not...I think any business should be able to operate whenever it wants, Sunday or otherwise....but employees should have a protected right to not be considered for Sunday rotations if they choose....this will only apply to those who wish to spend time with their families or would rather not work Sunday.....business can still operate, it can freely open when it wishes to (more freely than it can now for retail) and people still retain the right to spend at least one day of rest when their family is most likely to be off at the same time.

The millions of jobs that need to be done at the weekend can still be done, retail stores can open when they like and everyone is happy.

 

[Glaucus]

How can they freely operate? You need a minimum amount of workers to open and run a business. If you don't have that you can't operate.
Now in your way you could implement that in two ways, neither can work.
1) voluntary working, which doesn't guarantee you have the staff, especially on big event Sunday's.
2) you allow Sunday working to be part of the contract, in which case companies ensure you have Sunday written into your contract.

So how does your idea work in the real world? 1st you don't have guaranteed staff need, second you have no employee protection that you want.

 

[Brookert]

I worked in retail for 8 years (From the day I left school until the day I finished higher education) and this isn't what I found. Sunday was noticeably quieter than Saturday and it was nice to only have to do 6 hours rather than the 9 on a Saturday. It also reduced cost for businesses - I was often able to run the place on my own on a Sunday whereas this was totally impossible on a Saturday. We'd usually take a huge amount more money on a Saturday than on a Sunday.

I can't really see the benefit for some retailers, so even if the laws were relaxed you might find some firms continue to operate reduced trading hours on a Sunday.

I 100% agree, sundays in a large retail firm I worked in were much slower in sales, and we had around half the staff in.

I believe it is important to keep trading hours limited, otherwise we risk creating more poor quality jobs ( part time and silly hour jobs). I can't see big businesses giving employees the option to do late sundays or not.

 

[Castiel]

How can they freely operate? You need a minimum amount of workers to open and run a business. If you don't have that you can't operate.

You have a business model that accommodates your chosen operation timetable that fits within the regulations and legislation of the country in which those operations are implemented......just like they do today. Each business makes a decision on the profitability and necessity of their operations within those regulations. They do this currently.....there is no need to fully deregulate business...

Now in your way you could implement that in two ways, neither can work.
1) voluntary working, which doesn't guarantee you have the staff, especially on big event Sunday's.
2) you allow Sunday working to be part of the contract, in which case companies ensure you have Sunday written into your contract.

Neither way is workable.

They are workable....they work currently in the retail sector and in many transport sector businesses very well.

In other sectors also, periodic Sunday working is either a contractual obligation or is covered by part-time staff or overtime.

There are plenty of models that would accomodate voluntary Sunday operation.

 

[Glaucus]

In many industries are contracts state Sunday working, to cover the work so companies can plan. We are not "protected" by legislation.

So no it doent work in the current model, as there's no legislation to state people must have the right to Sunday off work, other than one small sector, which also has legislation for short working hours on that day.

Rosters are not volutrary they are contractual, and work as the company know they can have half their staff in every weekend, or what ever the contract says. Usually anywhere 1 in three weekends to 48 out 52 weekends.

There is no volutrary model that would work, critical work needs cover and for that you need contractual obligation. Shift work is still contractual and you can not include that in the volutrary model.

 

[Castiel]

In many industries are contracts state Sunday working, to cover the work so companies can plan. We are not "protected" by legislation.

So no it doent work in the current model, as there's no legislation to state people must have the right to Sunday off work, other than one small sector, which also has legislation for short working hours on that day.

Rosters are not volutrary they are contractual, and work as the company know they can have half their staff in every weekend, or what ever the contract says. Usually anywhere 1 in three weekends to 48 out 52 weekends.

There is no volutrary model that would work, critical work needs cover and for that you need contractual obligation. Shift work is still contractual and you can not include that in the volutrary model.

I totally disagee.....I operated a business with over 50,000 employees with precisely that kind of business model.......if implemented properly you can operate a 24/7 business and ensure voluntary Sunday working for your staff.

You seem to think we are talking about people being able to go to their manager on Monday morning and say "I'm not working this Sunday, because I don't feel like it" we are not.....we are giving people access to contracted Sunday working if they so choose, with reasonable notice periods for any change in those circumstances....in operational critical positions, a one on, three off policy can apply which still ensures the "Sunday working exception, not the rule" policy.

Operations are still predicated by financial and profitability (also contractual and regulatory obligations in my former employ) and the business model simply integrates his policy in that.

It is not difficult or particularly expensive to implement (especially as we did not offer enhanced rates for Sunday working) and it certainly is not unworkable....

 

[Glaucus]

You seem to think we are talking about people being able to go to their manager on Monday morning and say "I'm not working this Sunday, because I don't feel like it" we are not....

Not in the slightest

.we are giving people access to contracted Sunday working if they so choose,

Which surly goes against what you have said before. As employes can just select people they think/know will work Sundays.

..in operational critical positions, a one on, three off policy can apply which still ensures the "Sunday working exception, not the rule" policy.

what's your point on this?
It's still contractual and it isn't implemented in law.

Operations are still predicated by financial and profitability (also contractual and regulatory obligations in my former employ) and the business model simply integrates his policy in that.

It really isn't, workers aren't protected by law ATM, if we implement trading laws to all industry, all your bus drivers could write a letter and in 3months you would off Ben stuffed. It is in no way workable for many industries and is exactly why most industries have contractual obligations to do shift work, to ensure there is cover for the work.

It is not difficult or particularly expensive to implement (especially as we did not offer enhanced rates for Sunday working) and it certainly is not unworkable....

this, I just can't agree to all.

What capacity did you need at weekend? either you worked with extremely easy going workers, had some sort of contractual obligation, could reduce work if no cover found, or more than likely ran such a reduced survive that a small percentage of workforce is all you need and if you need say 50+% of your workforce on Sunday, you wouldn't off been able to cover that work.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I worked in retail for 8 years (From the day I left school until the day I finished higher education) and this isn't what I found.

In Hong Kong.

I was comparing how a environment that has 7 days normal trading feels to a consumer to the UK.

 

[Kenai]

That's one of the things I love about thE continent, things shut down and you can have a peaceful weekend. If you need anything you just have to plan your lives a bit better.

I for one hate the way I have never had a peaceful weekend and that shops being open prevents from me having one.

I can't just stay at home and ignore them, or go out and do something that doesn't involve them, they just completely prevent me from having some peaceful relaxation time.

 

[Castiel]

Not in the slightest


Which surly goes against what you have said before. As employes can just select people they think/know will work Sundays.


what's your point on this?
It's still contractual and it isn't implemented in law.


It really isn't, workers aren't protected by law ATM, if we implement trading laws to all industry, all your bus drivers could write a letter and in 3months you would off Ben stuffed. It is in no way workable for many industries and is exactly why most industries have contractual obligations to do shift work, to ensure there is cover for the work.



this, I just can't agree to all.

What capacity did you need at weekend? either you worked with extremely easy going workers, had some sort of contractual obligation, could reduce work if no cover found, or more than likely ran such a reduced survive that a small percentage of workforce is all you need and if you need say 50+% of your workforce on Sunday, you wouldn't off been able to cover that work.

We had a very efficent rota system that allowed our employees to make choices within a specified operational framework that has redundancy cover in the form of spare rota cover.

The idea that 50,000 employees are all going to give 3 months notice of withdrawing Sunday working is unrealistic and in any case some people were hired specifically on Sunday to Wednesday rota lines and these lines had a waiting list a mile long. The point is that the option and flexibility is inherent in the operational business model to accomodate the policy and it is not as difficult or unworkable as you imply it is......

It is perfectly workable with some exceptions...

And again, this isn't about no Sunday working at all, but retaining Sunday working as the exception, not the rule. Which is perfectly workable as many companies operate that way now.

I think I have said all there is to say on this for now. So it seems pointless to continue going in circles.