Surface 3 for photoshop

Not sure if anyone has covered this but direct pen inputs aren't actually that great for photo editing. A separate high quality tablet is better. If you're working with things in or on the image itself, lets say brushing in an adjustment layer, it's better to not have your hand and arm covering the image as you do it. If you're just messing around with sliders on the side ala Lightroom, it's more comfortable to set your screen up like a screen and work with something on a flat surface (no pun intended) like a wacom.

Unlike drawing or painting, where covering the image is the trade off for direct feedback, you don't have to compromise when working with photography.
 
Adrianr said:
Not sure if anyone has covered this but direct pen inputs aren't actually that great for photo editing. A separate high quality tablet is better. If you're working with things in or on the image itself, lets say brushing in an adjustment layer, it's better to not have your hand and arm covering the image as you do it. If you're just messing around with sliders on the side ala Lightroom, it's more comfortable to set your screen up like a screen and work with something on a flat surface (no pun intended) like a wacom.

Unlike drawing or painting, where covering the image is the trade off for direct feedback, you don't have to compromise when working with photography.
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I can't personally vouch for how well Lightroom/PS work on the new Surface 3 with respect to what you mentioned about having your hand over the image but I suspect there must be something there to make this easier to work with.

The Pen itself gets very good reviews as far as accuracy goes and having seen my colleague using it to write notes, the text looks very accurate and smooth.

Whilst certain separate input tablets might still be better, one of the major upsides to the Surface tablet is portability and you don't get that with those other tablets.
 
Adrianr said:
Not sure if anyone has covered this but direct pen inputs aren't actually that great for photo editing. A separate high quality tablet is better. If you're working with things in or on the image itself, lets say brushing in an adjustment layer, it's better to not have your hand and arm covering the image as you do it. If you're just messing around with sliders on the side ala Lightroom, it's more comfortable to set your screen up like a screen and work with something on a flat surface (no pun intended) like a wacom.

Unlike drawing or painting, where covering the image is the trade off for direct feedback, you don't have to compromise when working with photography.
Click to expand...

Never had a problem myself, hands and arm can cover a canvas when painting or sketching, never heard any complaints from Leonardo davinci :p
 
Phal said:
I can't personally vouch for how well Lightroom/PS work on the new Surface 3 with respect to what you mentioned about having your hand over the image but I suspect there must be something there to make this easier to work with.

The Pen itself gets very good reviews as far as accuracy goes and having seen my colleague using it to write notes, the text looks very accurate and smooth.

Whilst certain separate input tablets might still be better, one of the major upsides to the Surface tablet is portability and you don't get that with those other tablets.
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Haven't used a Surface 3 yet (Have a Pro 2), but if it's better than a Cintiq I'd be very surprised. Even the Cintiqs as good as they are, are not better than an Intuos Pro for working with photographs.

You're absolutely right on the portability front but for that I would ask just how portable a photo editing station needs to be? Photographs should be edited in controlled environments, not your local Starbucks. Even then some of the smaller Wacoms (Not sure what the current Bamboo is like but I bought one of the older ones for a friend and it was great), will easily fit in a bag alongside a regular laptop.

I think people have this image of being able to whip it out and edit a few photos on the train, or the bus, or in the park on a beautiful sunny day - It's just daft nonsense. Looks great in the TV ads, never works in real life.
 
Adrianr said:
I think people have this image of being able to whip it out and edit a few photos on the train, or the bus, or in the park on a beautiful sunny day - It's just daft nonsense. Looks great in the TV ads, never works in real life.
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Don't see why you couldn't? It's never going to be as good as a dedicated desktop machine but then again working mobile is always a compromise.

I've never really looked for reviews since I keep telling myself not to buy one but this guy seems to have a pretty balanced review (especially since he was a mac user lol). He seems pretty happy with the pen and the pros/cons balance out roughly as I'd imagine with there being certain drawbacks.

This guy usually uses a Cintiq for illustration work and seems to be quite positive about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgfzm1g3lv4

If I had a need for any kind of mobile processing then this is certainly something I'd consider.

Sadly there's limits to my money so I can't really justify buying one lol
 
Phal said:
Don't see why you couldn't? It's never going to be as good as a dedicated desktop machine but then again working mobile is always a compromise.

I've never really looked for reviews since I keep telling myself not to buy one but this guy seems to have a pretty balanced review (especially since he was a mac user lol). He seems pretty happy with the pen and the pros/cons balance out roughly as I'd imagine with there being certain drawbacks.

This guy usually uses a Cintiq for illustration work and seems to be quite positive about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgfzm1g3lv4

If I had a need for any kind of mobile processing then this is certainly something I'd consider.

Sadly there's limits to my money so I can't really justify buying one lol
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I completely get them for illustration and sketching, and if the 3 is anything like the 2 for quality, which everything I've read suggests is true, I'm sure it's a fantastic machine, but photography isn't illustration or sketching.

It's not really about desktop vs laptop either - It's about working in a controlled environment vs working in an uncontrolled one, whatever your computer of choice.

If you're comping you need precision, if you're retouching you usually need some form of keyboard for shortcuts, and if you're doing colour work you certainly can't be wondering around in changing light conditions with your auto brightness going haywire. Of course you can do all these things on the move, but you'll end up sitting at a desk later and realizing all you did was make a huge mess you now have to fix.

I would also say that even if you're using a mostly slider based program, it's still nicer to interact with a regular laptop with a big track pad, or a wireless mouse. The whole holding a pen up to a screen thing just isn't that great, and if you put the Surface flat on a table it's crap for your neck.

People see retouchers using Wacoms, see the Surface, see the pen and think jackpot, but the only similarity is holding a pen in your hand. The whole process of interacting with the program is completely different. You would be deliberately introducing compromise for the sake of a stylus because you think it would be better for 'creative' work. I promise you that for photography it's not.
 
For me the biggest perk of the Surface is that you can use it just like a laptop if you like and you can use it like a tablet. Wireless peripherals can be used or if you're at a desk then a USB hub will get all your usual ones working.

Then add an external monitor and you're fairly well sorted in your home/office.

Going back to Al4x's post:

Looking at this a little more seriously now.
My laptop I'm going to sell one way or another. The screen is so washed out I don't even like using it for browsing.

My concerns are
screen size might make this tricky as I'm used to using a 27 inch
It just might not be a nice experience in general

I'd probably use if for sorting through keep/discard pics
Teaching myself new techniques (I'm not very good)
Actual amateur editing.

Not too worried about battery life
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Screen size is smaller but then again any mobile device will have a small screen. External monitor at home would be my choice.

In my opinion it would be more than fine for sorting pics and doing basic edits but proofing them at home with a larger screen and controlled light would probably be necessary. You can disable the auto brightness feature on the screen but then you might struggle to see what's on your screen depending where you are. Doing full on Photoshop work would be harder than on a desktop machine obviously but I don't imagine Lightroom being too difficult to use.

The video I posted above may be from an illustrators viewpoint but it shows that with some adjustments to your usual work process you can do deal with a lot of the drawbacks.
 
Phal said:
For me the biggest perk of the Surface is that you can use it just like a laptop if you like and you can use it like a tablet. Wireless peripherals can be used or if you're at a desk then a USB hub will get all your usual ones working.
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And at the end of all this, you realise you got yourself a subpar desktop.

Edit:
Oh and lightroom + tablet is hardly a match made in heaven. VSCO keys and a keyboard mouse/trackpad is much more productive.
For things that are worth using a tablet for, you'l probably want to head into photoshop anyway.
 
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An Exception said:
And at the end of all this, you realise you got yourself a subpar desktop.

Edit:
Oh and lightroom + tablet is hardly a match made in heaven. VSCO keys and a keyboard mouse/trackpad is much more productive.
For things that are worth using a tablet for, you'l probably want to head into photoshop anyway.
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Yes we've covered all of this already :P If you want to work this way then there are adjustments to make.

Weigh up the pros and cons and decide what you want. If you can't deal with the cons then don't buy it.
 
Adrianr said:
I think people have this image of being able to whip it out and edit a few photos on the train, or the bus, or in the park on a beautiful sunny day - It's just daft nonsense. Looks great in the TV ads, never works in real life.
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it does work and pretty well , ok maybe I don't sit in the park with it but I've sat by the pool on holiday, on the plane and in the airport and edited a few shots in LR and PS
 
JBuk said:
it does work and pretty well , ok maybe I don't sit in the park with it but I've sat by the pool on holiday, on the plane and in the airport and edited a few shots in LR and PS
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I would agree with this, on a macbook air though, a blessing for some post processing on away and on holiday.

In hindsight I would have gone with a Macbook + retina though, it's barely much bigger than the air and there are lots of advantages.
 
What about Wacom's own laptop?

The Surface 3 touch screen is OK - but for any serious editing / art style work... it's not really good enough.

I have a Cintiq 13... 13" wacom tablet sitting infront of a 1080p 13" screen... it's great!

Obviously though, that needs to be hooked up to a PC/Mac to function... but it's nice as I can swap it round my machines and it's still light enough/small enough to carry around with a macbookpro... only you do require a power connection for it to function. (not that I do that though as I have one in home office and another at work).

The Wacom tablet is the same screen I think, but with a PC tagged on the back of it.

They and other artists seem to find the dual core ok... but if you're outputting a thousand photos from lightroom... then expect it to take a while.

It looks like they have just anounced a new version with a 2560x1440 13" display:

http://www.wacom.com/en-gb/announcements/cintiq-companion-2
 
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