Surround Sound System advice PLEASE!

MovieGuy90 · 20 Sep 2017 at 22:22

Hi All!

So I have ended up here after starting to get a little frustrated. My decision to upgrade my surround sound system has come with the choice to buy an Xbox One X and in turn requiring a new 4K TV to suit, so might as well upgrade everything. I know I don't know what im doing so bare with me.

I currently have an 43" LG HD Smart 3D TV - Was new tech when initially purchased 4 years ago with a basic LG speaker set to go with (2 wall mounted, sub + blu ray player to connect it all to)

To go with the Xbox I am looking at a 50-55" Samsung 4K HDR 6 Series. These are going to have to be staggered purchases, with the Xbox costing £450 and a budget of £550-£700 for the TV I'm obviously not going to be spending £1500 on a sound system.

I have spent days, possibly weeks trawling through reviews and articles on 5.1, 7.1.2, soundbars, headphones and so on.. its all getting a bit much.

I was hoping to pick something up for around the £300 mark but I feel it would be stupid to rush into it and regret it with the goal being to last the test of time (for at least 3-4 more years). Id be gutted to go and spend that money and be very underwhelmed by the result. However the option to spend much more than that is out of the question really. Its a problem, I know.

Is anyone able to offer a few suggestions that would suit me based on the above? I love my movies and looking forward to that 4k experience and obviously will be spending a bit of time gaming too.

Thanks in advance for your help!

hornetstinger · 20 Sep 2017 at 22:28

not going to be spending £1500 on a sound system.

Why not? You can easily spend £1500 (or more) And tbh it's worth it.

I was hoping to pick something up for around the £300 mark

Forget it.

If £300 is your limit, stay with stereo. And even then you're pushing it, so buy second hand. Say £150 on second hand speakers, £150 on second hand amplifier. £300 for a 5.1 system and AVR is going to be pretty awful, looking at a home theatre in a box.

Minimum I would recommend would be something like a Yamaha 300 or 400 series AVR, with Q Acoustics 2000 series, and 10"/12" subwoofer.

You need to double your budget at the very least.

£550 for the Q Acoustics 5.1 (but I'd ditch the Q Acoustics sub and get another one) then say £150 for the AVR.

MovieGuy90 · 21 Sep 2017 at 01:19

This has really given me some things to think about.

I'm by no means any sort of hobbyist when it comes to this stuff and to be honest I was looking at an acceptable bundled type system rather than buying things individually.

It would be nice to get a good immersive experience when playing games and watching 4K content but I'm not covering a large room at all.

By the sounds of it I maybe need to be a bit more patient and look at a solid 5.1 setup in the new year after saving and being able to increase my budget to the 700-900 range.

Would be nice to have an idea on the best money can buy for a bundle for say 400 and 750 although I appreciate that's pennies in this very vast area!

By the way I can sense the cringing from all you enthusiasts when I say things like bundle and out of the box

- this isn't my forté at all. Clearly.

FurryLemon · 21 Sep 2017 at 06:27

This will do you - https://www.richersounds.com/tv-home-cinema/speaker-packages/jbl-cinema-510.html

hornetstinger · 21 Sep 2017 at 09:21

That'll work but is it any good?

75mm driver. Way too small to provide a good audio range, 150hz, so will be tinny
60W subwoofer with 16cm woofer? You'll find it probably goes to about 50hz.

That would be fine for a PC audio system, but I wouldn't recommend for a main lounge home cinema.

For £200, just get stereo speakers. I sold a set of B&W 601, B&W CC6 second hand for £140, and they would trounce those speakers. You only need surrounds and sub. There's a Yamaha 6xx series AVR on the second hand section here, get that. I use a Yamaha 671 for the PC system.

It would be nice to get a good immersive experience when playing games and watching 4K content but I'm not covering a large room at all.

Neither am I, still have 1.7kW of amplification plus 1000W sub and whopping great flagship towers ;-)

You don't need to get close to what I have, but I found that Yamaha 671 with Q Acoustics and other £200 speakers to provide very good sound quality, where you have to spend considerbly more to get an improvement. The improvement from that JBL £200 system to £200 speakers will be huge.

Plus a higher range AVR (rather than a £150 one) will have proper screw down terminals more inputs, more power.

varkanoid · 21 Sep 2017 at 12:39

Careful with the richer sounds link they maybe considered a competitor !

These look nice
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/edifier-s760d-5.1-surround-sound-speakers-sp-032-er.html

Wonder what these are like
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/edifier-c6xd-5.1-surround-speaker-system-sp-04t-er.html

I wouldnt worry about the audiophiles if you have never experienced 5.1 sound at home. Even if you go for a budget set you will have a good experience. I understand the need to spend £1000 or whatever on a good system. Its a bit like the difference between someone happy with a £500 4k TV and another person looking down at you when they own a 65" OLED £2000 set.

My speakers are a right hotchpotch and I've always upgraded mine second hand. A lot to do with it is the room not everyone can get away with massive speakers and a large TV and the other consideration, her in doors, plus kids too you need to make sure they are not belted by a football. Why spend £000's on a set when they could end up with an addidas football buried in the cone.

My current setup is

Bought new
Panasonic 55DX750B 4k tv
Denon X2300
Samsung KBD-8500 4k player

Bought 2nd hand - classed as 6.1 I think
Panasonic centre
Logitech 5500 L/R Rear Surround L/R
Ariston rear centre
Toshiba subwoofer (this designed to sit on the VESA mount behind the TV its a massive slab of a woofer)
Flat speaker cable fed under carpet or hidden

It gives good surround sound with plenty of bass and I am happy with it but always thinking of what I can upgrade.

I was going to consider the Onkyo sksht588 5.1.2 Atmos setup but I managed to find the front L/R speakers with Atmos speakers on top for £80 so going to try them.
I just need to figure how to mount them as the left of the TV is near a window and its too big to put where the Logitech one is. So I`m scouring the auction site
for some speaker stands.

What I`m trying to say is if you are not an audiophile then doing it on the cheap is not that bad.

hornetstinger · 21 Sep 2017 at 20:14

A pair of Celestion A1's went for £175 on the auction site.

Originally they were £900. Those will utterly trouce all the above speakers.

tom_nieto · 22 Sep 2017 at 10:39

It's all a balance between budget and quality, but there are ways to increase quality and reduce budget. Don't be afraid of second hand kit if you're spending a reasonable amount of cash. Good, old kit isn't abused and is usually someone's pride and joy. If you see anything that suggests otherwise, go elsewhere.

£300 will buy you a great PC surround sound system, but I find these hugely lacking in refinement. The parallel I can draw is going into Curry's and buying the all in one system with the most flashing lights and the largest speakers. Form over function.

How big is your room? This is really important as a smaller room would suit a sub/satellite system much better than a full size lounge. As an example I bought a mint set of Kef Eggs (2005.2) second hand for £120 including a subwoofer which would also be a great starting point for a system. There are bargains out there!

£300 will buy you a really good stereo integrated amp and speakers which will be way more refined and more musical, but would lack the bass thump of the farty PC systems. You could always add a sub at a later stage. A well positioned pair of stereo speakers will give you a great experience as well. I don't normally encourage a subwoofer, but if gaming and movies are your primary use, then this would be of benefit I think.

If you're an AV noob, or a bit off the boil with the latest tech (which I am), I'd look for a second hand AV amp and a good pair of front speakers. There's a lot of snake oil, smoke and mirrors with the latest AV tech and sound formats, and I still really struggle to believe that the average living room setup would benefit from more than 5 speakers and one sub. Sure, if you've got a dedicated room then you might think differently, but some of the Atmos stuff being peddled is frankly ridiculous and might well go the same way as 3D and curved TVs. Add to your setup gradually and you'll end up with much better kit.

In summary, if you've got a small room look to get a stereo integrated amp and speakers, add a sub at a later date and call it a day. If you've got something slightly larger, go for a second hand AV amp and front speakers. Then look to add a sub and surround speakers once your budget allows.

@varkanoid - I can't believe what a mismatched set of speakers you've got with such a great amp. I'd look to get a matching front soundstage immediately rather than buying the Onkyo full set. Move the Logitech stuff to the rear and reap the benefits.

varkanoid · 22 Sep 2017 at 14:55

- I can't believe what a mismatched set of speakers you've got with such a great amp. I'd look to get a matching front soundstage immediately rather than buying the Onkyo full set. Move the Logitech stuff to the rear and reap the benefits.

I watched John Wick again last night and it sounded great. Bullet noise all over the place. If you spend time getting the balance right on all your speakers you can still get good sound no matter what they are. Its okay saying get a matching front soundstage but its not always possible due to your room and the consideration of others. Updating PC kit for me is no problem its all hidden inside a PC I can get away with it. Buying whacking great big speakers is completely out they need to be sneaked in.

There is only 9cm clearance below my TV for a centre speaker. I raised the TV stand by about an inch using rubber feet to give me an extra inch so I would need a centre speaker no higher than 11cm. This is quite difficult to get. Mounting it on the wall behind is not an option the TV sits on a cabinet in a corner. Right front is not too bad I have a couple of options either on the bookcase or at the side. Left front is nigh on impossible as there is a window. At the moment the front left Logitech is on the mantel place but no way could I get away with a 2 foot speaker on there. I have to buy speakers to fit the room more importantly than being a match. The centre Panasonic is a pretty good speaker though.

My plan is to get the Onkyo Front/Left Atmos speakers bought fitted somehow and move the logitech to the back so I will end up with 7.1.2 Atmos

tom_nieto · 22 Sep 2017 at 16:41

Fair enough, I know it's often easier said than done to get all matching speakers - centres are particularly difficult because of space in AV cabinets etc. There's so much potential in your amp though! I guess room correction on modern AV amps does a lot of good too.

hornetstinger · 22 Sep 2017 at 20:11

tom_nieto said:
Fair enough, I know it's often easier said than done to get all matching speakers - centres are particularly difficult because of space in AV cabinets etc. There's so much potential in your amp though! I guess room correction on modern AV amps does a lot of good too.

It's not difficult at all, I bought Celestion A series speakers, and just kept my eye on the matching A4C. It took a while, but one appeared on a site, and it's mint, virtually for nothing. The speakers are no longer in production and pretty rare.

Also you shouldn't put speakers in cabinets it'll sound boxy. Room correction won't make speakers match, and it won't fix something that is badly placed.

My front three are matching. The side/rears are matching bipoles, but are of a different make to the fronts.

FurryLemon · 22 Sep 2017 at 21:48

And again you miss the point and bang on about your old ass speakers...

tom_nieto · 22 Sep 2017 at 23:21

hornetstinger said:
It's not difficult at all, I bought Celestion A series speakers, and just kept my eye on the matching A4C. It took a while, but one appeared on a site, and it's mint, virtually for nothing. The speakers are no longer in production and pretty rare.

Also you shouldn't put speakers in cabinets it'll sound boxy. Room correction won't make speakers match, and it won't fix something that is badly placed.

My front three are matching. The side/rears are matching bipoles, but are of a different make to the fronts.

It's not difficult to buy a matching speaker, but in the post that I quoted it was a room/space issue rather than a brand issue. Often difficult to find a small or odd shaped centre to match the rest of the speakers in these situations. I'm not entirely sure where I'd put a matching 78c as it's a beast, also a freestanding centre away from any cabinets or screens is seriously rare and you have to be pretty fortunate to have enough space and a corresponding lack of pets/kids to achieve it. A centre speaker sat on top of an AV unit is hardly ideal placement either.

Room correction will help with mismatching speakers but won't completely correct. Surround sound imaging and sound placement is a lot to do with volume level calibration at the listening point which the new amps do well.

Nothing wrong with old ass speakers and hifi kit!

hornetstinger · 23 Sep 2017 at 07:48

FurryLemon said:
And again you miss the point and bang on about your old ass speakers...

old ass high end £3500 flagship speakers. Don't show your jealously.

And I thought you blocked me?

volume level calibration at the listening point which the new amps do well.

You can do that with all AVR's, even those without the setup microphone. Just use a sound pressure meter.

FurryLemon · 23 Sep 2017 at 08:08

Jealously over 3.5k speakers? No. My center speaker in the lounge cost 3k. We won't go into the listening room speakers if you think 3.5k is flagship.

As for blocking you, why? It's the internet. 90% of your posts are useful, just you have a tendency to miss the point being made and bang on about your old ass speakers. Like here in this thread, guy is pointing out it's difficult to get a center to fit his AV unit hence the mis match mess. You miss that point completely and start banging on about how easy speaker matching is.

You really should attempt to read posts before you go into 'my speakers blah blah blah' mode.

tom_nieto · 23 Sep 2017 at 09:54

hornetstinger said:
You can do that with all AVR's, even those without the setup microphone. Just use a sound pressure meter.

Oh sure, my Denon 3802 could do this but you can't deny that it's much easier for the average consumer now. In the pre auto setup, pre smartphone app era not many people owned a sound pressure meter.

I think will waving at ten times the OP's budget is probably not relevant here!

lude1962 · 23 Sep 2017 at 11:31

varkanoid said:
@varkanoid - I can't believe what a mismatched set of speakers you've got with such a great amp. I'd look to get a matching front soundstage immediately rather than buying the Onkyo full set. Move the Logitech stuff to the rear and reap the benefits.

I watched John Wick again last night and it sounded great. Bullet noise all over the place. If you spend time getting the balance right on all your speakers you can still get good sound no matter what they are. Its okay saying get a matching front soundstage but its not always possible due to your room and the consideration of others. Updating PC kit for me is no problem its all hidden inside a PC I can get away with it. Buying whacking great big speakers is completely out they need to be sneaked in.

There is only 9cm clearance below my TV for a centre speaker. I raised the TV stand by about an inch using rubber feet to give me an extra inch so I would need a centre speaker no higher than 11cm. This is quite difficult to get. Mounting it on the wall behind is not an option the TV sits on a cabinet in a corner. Right front is not too bad I have a couple of options either on the bookcase or at the side. Left front is nigh on impossible as there is a window. At the moment the front left Logitech is on the mantel place but no way could I get away with a 2 foot speaker on there. I have to buy speakers to fit the room more importantly than being a match. The centre Panasonic is a pretty good speaker though.

My plan is to get the Onkyo Front/Left Atmos speakers bought fitted somehow and move the logitech to the back so I will end up with 7.1.2 Atmos[/QUOTE]
Mordaunt Short MS304 Centre
about 11.5 cm high with feet
10.7 without, just measured it

varkanoid · 23 Sep 2017 at 13:17

lude1962 said:
Mordaunt Short MS304 Centre
about 11.5 cm high with feet
10.7 without, just measured it

Good find but needs to be black or silver. Its a pity the housing is that colour although I could spray it.

- although just found black and silver ones on the bay.

MovieGuy90 · 23 Sep 2017 at 16:13

Wow.. this is some crazy stuff. I feel a little out of my depth but have spent this week doing more research into how things work and what they mean.

So let's change it up a bit. If I start with the receiver and build on that. If I put around £250 just for that could I get something respectable? I can't see going bigger than 5.1 but the option of 5.1.2 might be nice in the future.

hornetstinger · 23 Sep 2017 at 18:31

MovieGuy90 said:
Wow.. this is some crazy stuff. I feel a little out of my depth but have spent this week doing more research into how things work and what they mean.

So let's change it up a bit. If I start with the receiver and build on that. If I put around £250 just for that could I get something respectable? I can't see going bigger than 5.1 but the option of 5.1.2 might be nice in the future.

Yup easily a good AVR + stereo speakers. Like I said there's a Yamaha 600 series on the second hand section, get that, that's got enough power for entry level system, and the auto setup is pretty good (manually change speaker crossover afterwards though) With some stereo speakers with the left over. I started off with Kef Coda 9's for my first seperate system.

In the pre auto setup, pre smartphone app era not many people owned a sound pressure meter.

I did. Why spend hundreds on speakers, amplifier and subwoofers (total thousands of pounds) and you just guess it, or use a inaccurate phone? They're like £30.