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Swapping into an older car? 62 plate Focus to 57 plate golf GTI
- Thread starter MissChief
- Start date
His sounds particularly low spec though, I think Ed30s with no options on are a rarity in comparison to specced ones, a car being ten years old doesn't preclude it from having things cruise.
Not sure how you've attributed xs2mans post to me there
Not sure how you've attributed xs2mans post to me there
Neither am I!
No. Mine came with all the bits. Your suggesting I agree with his post about his car being poverty spec and mine was before retrofitting. This isn't the case. Mine came out the factory with many of these option, no need to retrofit. I simply upgraded the nav, because I wanted to. My point being that there are cars out there with the spec you would want. Sure, I upgraded my satnav, not because of functionality, which the old one was fine with, but for the aesthetics in the interior. And it wasn't a £700 upgrade as suggested, but was done for £300, minus the value of the old satnav (for which I received £130), so all in it wasn't a huge cost to change to a much more modern unit.
Granted, the bluetooth is an aftermarket setup. But that isn't really worth worrying about. £60 or so second hand, and you get all the functionality you could need. Or, you could upgrade to the cheaper RNS315 DAB and get a satnav with integrated nav, bluetooth and DAB. So no aftermarket parts there. Some cars come with BT as standard anyway. So my point remains.
Sure. My point was there are cars out there with all that spec, and more. Just because his is a relatively poverty spec example, doesn't mean they all are.
I also agree that assuming the OP gets a good one, and keeps it good, there is a reasonable chance of the depreciation being minimal, over the short to medium term at least. There are a finite number of these cars, and the good ones will be getting rarer.
I'd just remap the Focus tbh, they are quite a hoot once modded and have an excellent chassis to exploit the extra power.
Going older sometimes works if your going older but up in class as such, my e38 blows my partners 12 plate Focus out of the water in every respect (bar nimble handling, it's nigh on2 tons after all) but, it's a low mileage pampered example and it did cost nearly £50k 17years ago!
Back in the day I loved and indeed owned an S1 Escort RS Turbo and a later S2 example, wonderful cars in their day, however, I tried one recently after a friend bought it for nearly £17k and I was quite shocked as to how harsh, skittish and frankly slow it was especially given what £17k puts you into these days performance car wise.
Don't revisit your past heroes, you'll often be somewhat disappointed.
Going older sometimes works if your going older but up in class as such, my e38 blows my partners 12 plate Focus out of the water in every respect (bar nimble handling, it's nigh on2 tons after all) but, it's a low mileage pampered example and it did cost nearly £50k 17years ago!
Back in the day I loved and indeed owned an S1 Escort RS Turbo and a later S2 example, wonderful cars in their day, however, I tried one recently after a friend bought it for nearly £17k and I was quite shocked as to how harsh, skittish and frankly slow it was especially given what £17k puts you into these days performance car wise.
Don't revisit your past heroes, you'll often be somewhat disappointed.
I disagree with both of these comments
The mk3 Focus imo is boring and a remap will only add 20bhp to the 1.6T. It will still be too refined and not very quick which is not what OP classes as fun.
And as for the going older only works if going up in class I disagree with that.
When I had my 2006 Focus ST225 that I paid 5k for my friend had just bought a 2013 mk3 Focus Zetec for around 7k ish. These are the same class of car but I would have taken my cheaper St225 any day of the week despite the fact it was 7 years older it was a better car in every way with its Recaro's, auto xenon lights, Sony sound system, way quicker with 100bhp more, bigger alloys, amazing 5 pot sound when accelerating and sportier looks and handling.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
The Mk5 GTI is only 197bhp. How will it be much different in this respect?
Absolutely, none of these cars are going to feel significantly quicker (at anything much under 3 figures) than each other once you get over the initial feeling of a bit more poke. You'd be all kinds of disappointed in the difference on a 2nd/3rd gear short burst side by side
People like to convince themselves otherwise but you'd need a long run and to be hitting funny figures to really see a marked difference between anything of a similar weight within say 180-230ish bhp.
I'm not suggesting more powerful cars aren't quicker (duh) and you'd always want more when buying but I'd never dream of changing cars just for +10% power - especially given the relative age and lack of "specialness"
People like to convince themselves otherwise but you'd need a long run and to be hitting funny figures to really see a marked difference between anything of a similar weight within say 180-230ish bhp.
I'm not suggesting more powerful cars aren't quicker (duh) and you'd always want more when buying but I'd never dream of changing cars just for +10% power - especially given the relative age and lack of "specialness"
I did not say it was if you look on the previous page i said the same thing the Golf GTI wont feel any different. Thats why i recommended the Focus ST225 with a £300 remap which will make it 265bhp maybe 270 with an intercooler. Double the amount of Torque and an extra 80bhp over his current car will make it far more fun and noticeably quicker than his current car which is what he is after.
What do I need to look out for with the 2.5T? Wasn't there some sort of inherent issue which as good as trashed the engine?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201707047048868
Long way away though.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201707047048868
Long way away though.
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not really a very very small minority had cracked engine liners mostly on heavily modified examples running over 300bhp. It was only ever a problem on 2006/7 models i think but the internet likes to exaggerate when they hear problems. The Focus ST225 is the most reliable hot hatch of its generation when compared to generic problems that the Golf GTI, Astra VXR, Leon Cupra, Mazda MPS have
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2013
- Posts
- 2,589
ST225 is a great car, my current one has 135k miles and runs lovely. They sound fantastic too.
Some odd points being made in this thread. Regardless of the wisdom of buying a tired old Golf, comparing one against remapped Focuses (either the 180 EB or the Mk2 ST) isn't apples to apples because the Mk5 happily remaps to 240-250bhp out of the box and is a lighter car. Anyway...
The GTI example found was an overpriced, low-spec munter but with a bit of work and/or patience you can get something much better. I bought my 05 plate from someone with a trusted forum reputation for £3,600 and it had an extremely high spec: automatic bi-xenons, cruise control, rain-sensing wipers, rear parking sensors, dual-zone climate, heated leather, electric sunroof, auto-dimming mirrors (incl. heated/folding sides), multi-function steering wheel, highline dashboard, 6 CD changer (lol CDs). Mine's an old car, if well-kept, but the handling/ride compromise on the 17" wheels is a superb sweet spot for an entertaining but everyday car.
This isn't fanboy blinkers: The Mk5 GTI is not an eye-widening beast and it's not a patch on my MX-5 for driver involvement, so I've struggled to truly bond with it. However, the chassis is a solid notch above a cooking Mk3 Focus! The Mk2 ST is a nice car and worth considering; they're more exciting at half-effort because of the torque and (glorious!) soundtrack, but I felt the weight (or just nose-heavy handling?) on tighter country roads. The driving position is too high as well, even if the leather Recaros are fantastic (better than the GTI's leather buckets, which I like a lot).
Don't buy an old performance-ish car if it's not a great example (VWs are not especially reliable!), but don't listen to the WhatCar dashboard admirers that a Mk3 Focus is basically the same thing. Driven casually on a staid commute, the modern Focus will definitely be the better car. Driven hard and with any equivalent level of 'enthusiast modding', the GTI is comfortably the better car.
I know this forum's tastes are a bit My Bluetooth Commute at times, but still...
The GTI example found was an overpriced, low-spec munter but with a bit of work and/or patience you can get something much better. I bought my 05 plate from someone with a trusted forum reputation for £3,600 and it had an extremely high spec: automatic bi-xenons, cruise control, rain-sensing wipers, rear parking sensors, dual-zone climate, heated leather, electric sunroof, auto-dimming mirrors (incl. heated/folding sides), multi-function steering wheel, highline dashboard, 6 CD changer (lol CDs). Mine's an old car, if well-kept, but the handling/ride compromise on the 17" wheels is a superb sweet spot for an entertaining but everyday car.
This isn't fanboy blinkers: The Mk5 GTI is not an eye-widening beast and it's not a patch on my MX-5 for driver involvement, so I've struggled to truly bond with it. However, the chassis is a solid notch above a cooking Mk3 Focus! The Mk2 ST is a nice car and worth considering; they're more exciting at half-effort because of the torque and (glorious!) soundtrack, but I felt the weight (or just nose-heavy handling?) on tighter country roads. The driving position is too high as well, even if the leather Recaros are fantastic (better than the GTI's leather buckets, which I like a lot).
Don't buy an old performance-ish car if it's not a great example (VWs are not especially reliable!), but don't listen to the WhatCar dashboard admirers that a Mk3 Focus is basically the same thing. Driven casually on a staid commute, the modern Focus will definitely be the better car. Driven hard and with any equivalent level of 'enthusiast modding', the GTI is comfortably the better car.
I know this forum's tastes are a bit My Bluetooth Commute at times, but still...
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That depends a lot what you are talking about heh - I've seen everything from 400K mile Golfs that have just run endlessly with little to no problems and brand new Tourans that need cobbling back together every 10K miles :s
My parents are quite big VW fans for some reason and put moon miles on a few different models and mostly they've been pretty reliable - only common occurrence has been some of them (mostly the same 1.9L TDI IIRC) the turbo has gone at around 70K miles but once sorted they've carried on into the 100s of K miles no problem.
Ha, true, but my last car was a Mk2 MX-5. It set a very high benchmark that I don't think any VW from that era or since has matched, even the mighty PD130-powered stuff has electrical and chassis issues, in my experience.
For the purposes of me not being wrong, rust is considered beyond the scope of this conversation!
Or stick a simple £300 remap on an ED30 and make it around 300 BHP if your talking about comparing remapped motors. Or stick a few other choice mods on it, and go for stage 2+ and 360 BHP. How far do you want to take this?
My ED30 isn't mapped. Has a few breathing mods (cat-back + intake). It sounds and goes great. I am very happy with it. I will likely remap it at some point going forward, but for now, I am pleased with it's performance, for what it is.
Pretty much the same here - made the move 'backwards' to an Edition 30 and absolutely love it. Stage 1 map @311bhp (APR on ours) and its plenty involving enough when you press the loud pedal yet well mannered enough to be my wife's daily. Its pretty dire on fuel though, 23-25 round town and about 32 on a run (have managed 38 once but it was too boring). As for the 'niggles' you'd have to deal with there aren't really many. PCV, Bypass valve and camshaft rocker are must do's, the rest will be covered by service history. Also ours is 106k miles and has used 0.5L of oil in the last 3k miles and its not molly coddled.
Edit - XS2MAN, get yours mapped - massive difference
What's that got to do with anything? A 10yr old ED30 will still cost nearly 8k for a decent unabused example which is far more than OP stated. He said he wants to put some money in the bank after selling his car which is probably worth around 7k.
He's talking about a normal Golf GTI with a different engine in that is lacking in power and Torque compared to the ST.
If he wants willy waving stats he should go and buy a far Better value for money Leon Cupra or Mazda MPS that both map as good as the overpriced ED30
My decent, well specced example was a few hundred quid more than the one the OP linked, so entirely relevant.
Then you brought remapping into it, so thought I'd be as well mentioning it too. And don't forget a normal GTI will remap to around 240-250 BHP too, so that's hardly a million miles behind your mapped ST225 suggestion. And, to top it all off, the OP has already clearly stated they would like a Golf, and is happy to get rid of a Focus to get one.
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