System won't POST with four sticks of RAM

philo-sofa · 26 Jan 2021 at 19:05

Hi all, my new build has started refusing to work using four DIMMs. After working perfectly for ~2 weeks *boom* come Friday she simply wouldn’t POST. The Debug LED initially showed a CPU error, after clearing CMOS this changed to a memory error. Removing any one or two sticks of RAM allows the system to post, boot into Windows and pass an hour of MemTest64

I’ve also tried:

Downclocking the memory to base timings and frequency (133 C20-21-21-21-42 1T / 1.35v / 1067 flck / gear down enabled & disabled) to test; this has no effect
Increasing NB (or on-die NB) voltage by 80mv; this also has no effect
Swapping out the memory for four entirely new modules; this changed nothing

I suspect that it’s the motherboard at this point (or I suppose the CPU) but would welcome any other theories or suggested tests. Full specs are in my sig but here’s an expanded list of the most relevant hardware:

• 4x8GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4-4400 C19 (two dual channel sets) @ 3800 C16-16-16-16-32 1T / 1.35v / 1900 flck / geardown enabled
(tested at 2133 C20-21-21-21-42 1T / 1.35v / 1067 flck / gear down enabled & disabled)

• 5800X with PBO auto
(PBO off for testing)

• MSI MAG X-570 Tomahawk Wi-Fi
(7C84v14 BIOS – haven’t updated to beta BIOS as it’s beta, plus everything used to work perfectly on this one)

Purgatory · 26 Jan 2021 at 19:32

@philo-sofa

Run memtest on the sticks. Try with all 4 at first and if you get any errors then try them 1 at a time in slot A2 only. Run them at JEDEC speeds 2133mhz or 2666mhz basically defaults with xmp off. If none fail, run them one at a time at the XMP profile on the stcks. You may find one fails then.

Make a bootable USB of memtest and remember if you have CSM enabled (in the BIOS) and no UEFI windows install to set UEFI to enabled so the usb stick can boot as it is a UEFI boot only.

https://www.memtest86.com/

philo-sofa · 26 Jan 2021 at 19:46

Purgatory said:
@philo-sofa

Run memtest on the sticks. Try with all 4 at first and if you get any errors then try them 1 at a time in slot A2 only. Run them at JEDEC speeds 2133mhz or 2666mhz basically defaults with xmp off. If none fail, run them one at a time at the XMP profile on the stcks. You may find one fails then.

Make a bootable USB of memtest and remember if you have CSM enabled (in the BIOS) and no UEFI windows install to set UEFI to enabled so the usb stick can boot as it is a UEFI boot only.

https://www.memtest86.com/

Thanks purgatory, but do you think I need to do this given I've swapped out my original memory for four completely new DIMMS and gotten the same problem?

Also is Memtest86 much more useful than 64 IYO?

Purgatory · 26 Jan 2021 at 20:26

philo-sofa said:
Thanks purgatory, but do you think I need to do this given I've swapped out my original memory for four completely new DIMMS and gotten the same problem?

Also is Memtest86 much more useful than 64 IYO?

If you are trying to get 3800mhz on 4 sticks and having issues then it is either BIOS or simple the cpu and motherboard will not allow it.

Have you tried to run them at 3200mhz ? Just turn on the xmp profile and drop the speed only to 3200mhz and if the sytem works fine it means you need to slowly work up and find where the system becomes unstable. Memtest I use to check if the memory is stable at any set speed, not just to test if the memory is working.

I would go threw setting the xmp off and running memtest with all 4 sticks first, to rule out any bad sticks. If it fails any part of memtest with 4 sticks at JEDEC speeds (XMP off) then I would start testing them 1 by one.

This year I have had a shocking amount of bad sticks from new, this is why I test them minute I get them now, before never had these issues with DOA sticks or they produce errors even at JEDEC speeds.

Rule out the sticks first or it will drive you crazy, work in order and test. If the sticks pass JEDEC all 4 in the slots then try XMP and see if they pass. If they fail on xmp could be that the speed is too high for 4 sticks for your setup (CPU or Motherboard don't like to run 4 sticks at xmp), so you will have to reduce the speed of the sticks in 4 way. Remember 4 sticks are harder to run so don't expect XMP to work. Also if you check your motherboards RAM QVL you will see for a lot of ram it will not allow certain speeds with 4 sticks.

But test the sticks and rule them out then start tuning the speed and timings for 4 sticks. No point doing any speed or timings unless you make sure the RAM is working 100%.

Ram that is flaky and the headaches with most BIOS now and beta and none beta for 5000 series is adding to the headaches.

I own a x570 godlike with a 5950x and the ram on one of the BETA BIOS worked at 3800mhz CL16 now on the new beta they only work at 3600mhz CL16. But new bios is better and more features , so hoping a new version will fix the ram speed again. I'm also on 4000mhz viper ram.

philo-sofa · 26 Jan 2021 at 21:08

Purgatory said:
If you are trying to get 3800mhz on 4 sticks and having issues then it is either BIOS or simple the cpu and motherboard will not allow it.

Have you tried to run them at 3200mhz ? Just turn on the xmp profile and drop the speed only to 3200mhz and if the sytem works fine it means you need to slowly work up and find where the system becomes unstable. Memtest I use to check if the memory is stable at any set speed, not just to test if the memory is working.

Appreciate the help dude, really, but I did bullet point all this in my OP. To reiterate:

I’ve also tried:

Downclocking the memory to base timings and frequency to test (tested at 2133 C20-21-21-21-42 1T / 1.35v / 1067 flck / gear down enabled & disabled) - this has no effect
Increasing NB (or on-die NB) voltage by 80mv - this also has no effect
Swapping out the memory for four entirely different modules - this changed nothing

Purgatory said:
I would go threw setting the xmp off and running memtest with all 4 sticks first, to rule out any bad sticks. If it fails any part of memtest with 4 sticks at JEDEC speeds (XMP off) then I would start testing them 1 by one.

I can't even POST in with four sticks man

Purgatory said:
This year I have had a shocking amount of bad sticks from new, this is why I test them minute I get them now, before never had these issues with DOA sticks or they produce errors even at JEDEC speeds

Rule out the sticks first or it will drive you crazy, work in order and test. If the sticks pass JEDEC all 4 in the slots then try XMP and see if they pass. If they fail on xmp could be that the speed is too high for 4 sticks for your setup (CPU or Motherboard don't like to run 4 sticks at xmp), so you will have to reduce the speed of the sticks in 4 way. Remember 4 sticks are harder to run so don't expect XMP to work. Also if you check your motherboards RAM QVL you will see for a lot of ram it will not allow certain speeds with 4 sticks.

Yep tried them at base speeds and cannot do four sticks. I feel I've ruled out the memory fairly conclusively by purchasing four new DIMMs and finding the exact same problem. Also relevant is that everything worked fine for two weeks and then failed.

Purgatory said:
But test the sticks and rule them out then start tuning the speed and timings for 4 sticks. No point doing any speed or timings unless you make sure the RAM is working 100%.

I did several hours in Memtest64 with three sticks.

BUDFORCE · 26 Jan 2021 at 21:31

He clearly didn't read any of your post.

BUDFORCE · 26 Jan 2021 at 21:45

Take the bios battery out for half an hour and got the power switch a few times, completely clear it.

Double check RAM is FIRMLY seated.

Hakanese · 26 Jan 2021 at 21:47

If you're getting no joy with new ram, check if there's a new bios for it, or if you can roll back to a non-beta one. Hope it's just a bios issue rather than a dead mobo

Purgatory · 26 Jan 2021 at 22:49

philo-sofa said:
Appreciate the help dude, really, but I did bullet point all this in my OP. To reiterate:

I’ve also tried:

Downclocking the memory to base timings and frequency to test (tested at 2133 C20-21-21-21-42 1T / 1.35v / 1067 flck / gear down enabled & disabled) - this has no effect

Increasing NB (or on-die NB) voltage by 80mv - this also has no effect

Swapping out the memory for four entirely different modules - this changed nothing

I can't even POST in with four sticks man

Yep tried them at base speeds and cannot do four sticks. I feel I've ruled out the memory fairly conclusively by purchasing four new DIMMs and finding the exact same problem. Also relevant is that everything worked fine for two weeks and then failed.

I did several hours in Memtest64 with three sticks.

My point was to test each stick on its own in slot A2 (which is the correct slot for one stick only) first with memtest make sure they all pass and the system posts. To rule out any bad sticks.

If that works and they all pass then start moving the single stick to each slot to rule out a bad slot ( the motherboard will come up with a screen saying that single stick would be better in A2 slot and show the slot its in now is not recommended but can be tested with memtest) or a over tight cooler on the cpu that maybe causing a slot not to function correctly. Once that is done and you know all sticks and slots work then try a new bios even if the latest is a beta. If that fails then time to buy ram on the QVL list for that motherboard that will allow 4 sticks to work, not all ram will work on 4 sticks on certain motherboards.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MAG-X570-TOMAHAWK-WIFI#support-mem-21

Make sure the ram has a tick for 4 dimms as you will see from the list some will only work on 2 slots not all 4.

Currently the x570 and 550 boards are a pain with RAM compatibility with the 5000 series cpus. Some people had 3000 series cpus in and their ram worked fine , then they updated to 5000 series cpus and they would not post or would not work at XMP speeds of the ram.

My point above was to rule out any bad sticks then work from there.

Purgatory · 26 Jan 2021 at 22:54

BUDFORCE said:
He clearly didn't read any of your post.

I did read it, that is why i kept repeating test each stick of ram on its own first, so to rule out the sticks then the slots. Troubleshooting in a logical way. Then we can move on to next stages.

philo-sofa · 27 Jan 2021 at 00:09

Hakanese said:
If you're getting no joy with new ram, check if there's a new bios for it, or if you can roll back to a non-beta one. Hope it's just a bios issue rather than a dead mobo

That's not a bad idea, could be a borky BIOS even if it did work previously. Might be the next step.

BUDFORCE said:
He clearly didn't read any of your post.

Take the bios battery out for half an hour and got the power switch a few times, completely clear it.

Double check RAM is FIRMLY seated.

Indeed...

Done and done. After 30 mins convincing the mobo to read an NVME drive I'm back. No dice but cheers for the good suggestion.

Purgatory said:
I did read it, that is why i kept repeating test each stick of ram on its own first, so to rule out the sticks then the slots. Troubleshooting in a logical way. Then we can move on to next stages.

Really? You didn't seem to pick up that I tried the memory at base speeds, or that I had four new modules. We've fairly much ruled out a bad DIMM (trying four new ones) or that there's a bad slot (any arrangement of 2-3 DIMMS works). Again though I do appreciate the help man.

All of which brings up the question (if a BIOS update doesn't fix the board) of is it likely the board or CPU?

BUDFORCE · 27 Jan 2021 at 07:26

Clutching at straws here, are all the power connectors firmly in, 24pin and the CPU power cables?

Try reseat CPU.

It's worth just checking......

It'll be hard to diagnose between the two CPU/Motherboard without swapping each sorry. Unless someone else ok here can think of something else.

Doug2507 · 27 Jan 2021 at 08:17

What voltages were you running before it failed to post?

Joxeon · 27 Jan 2021 at 08:28

I'd go with the beta bios as you can always swap back to the one your on now so you really have nothing to lose.

philo-sofa · 28 Jan 2021 at 09:04

Update:

Due to a delivery snafu I ended up with a third set of basically-the-same memory (Patriot Viper 4GHz, as opposed to the original 4133 and the second batch which were 4400) and this set works on all four DIMMS?! It's a weird one; given the four original sticks used to work, I'm still a bit worried about long term viability and what might be causing those other two sets not to work. On the positive side they do run up to 3733 CL6 and 1866 fclk on all four slots without issue.

Any thoughts on this folks?

BUDFORCE said:
Clutching at straws here, are all the power connectors firmly in, 24pin and the CPU power cables?

Try reseat CPU.

It's worth just checking......

It'll be hard to diagnose between the two CPU/Motherboard without swapping each sorry. Unless someone else ok here can think of something else.

You know I'm gonna try reseating everything and reinstalling the original RAM over the weekend, that can't hurt.

Doug2507 said:
What voltages were you running before it failed to post?

Didn't touch anything voltage wise. It was 1.357 on the DIMMs, 1.0s_something on the NB voltage.

Joxeon said:
I'd go with the beta bios as you can always swap back to the one your on now so you really have nothing to lose.

Agreed if I don't get anywhere with the other tests, I'll give this a whirl.

Thanks for your help so far @Purgatory @BUDFORCE @Hakanese @Doug2507 @Joxeon

Hakanese · 28 Jan 2021 at 10:18

The longer I stay on the forum the more convinced that I know nothing...
I get the feeling that with the amd chips they're a Royal pita sometimes.
But last thing I would suggest is up the voltages and see if you can get it to work.
Treat it as an OC. Good luck, and at least you got an extra set of high speed ram out of it

philo-sofa · 28 Jan 2021 at 10:27

Hakanese said:
The longer I stay on the forum the more convinced that I know nothing...
I get the feeling that with the amd chips they're a Royal pita sometimes.
But last thing I would suggest is up the voltages and see if you can get it to work.
Treat it as an OC. Good luck, and at least you got an extra set of high speed ram out of it

Yeah me too mate. This is my first new build in half a decade and my first AMD build since Athlon 64.

I agree that it's evident that Zen 3 is super difficult and borky when it comes to memory. My main concern is that I've got something else going on, given I was running happily on the original four DIMMs and then suddenly they failed to POST at the slowest speeds and loosest timings. But some of that is me being over-protective of my rig

Hakanese · 28 Jan 2021 at 10:36

I went from 4770k to 10700k and m.2 ssds. I really got confused...sata what?
We're always learning new stuff and protective of our PCs.. especially now

Purgatory · 28 Jan 2021 at 13:34

Happy you got it sorted. Send the other ram back, I still suspect you have a stick or more not working right from previous sets. Like I said I received a good few bad sticks of ram end of last year and this year. Never before I had to deal with DOA ram in these amounts before. Also the whole Amd mess with the 5000 series cpus and bios for them is a total mess still with ram compatibility and other issues.

That's why I kept saying test the ram as it wasted many hours and days for me at work with dead or not fully functioning ram that threw errors at jedec speeds and would cause stability issues even when they seemed fine out of the box before full testing. If they tested fine it later showed that they would not work 100% right because the bios didn't like them and ended up buying QVL listed memory to rule out bad motherboards and cpus. QVL RAM worked right away and no issues as long as all sticks worked and passed memtest.

philo-sofa · 28 Jan 2021 at 13:44

Yeah I think there's something to that @Purgatory; my 'sense' of it is that the RAM itself is okay given any 2-3 sticks run at high speeds but there's likely that weakness in AMDs 5000 series memory management rearing its head, possibly combined with some weakness in two of the memory modules. But that's just a sense, I could be wrong.

Either way for now, I've got 32GB working and I don't have to replace my motherboard

Plus AGESA 1.2 is incoming (thread) and I've got a 5900X OCUK say will be with me next month, so I'll get to narrow down where the bug lies a bit further.