Taking a 4k pay cut

[Jonnybmac]

I'm 4/6 years through a part time OU engineering degree. Including 6 years at college I've been im academic study for 6 years now.

I spent 5 years braying on managers doors in my old job to get a change from shop floor level to design/engineering and the best i got was CMM inspection.

I got head hunted for a job at the end of last year and i took it for 4k more, taking me to 24k a year and closer to home. It is not a bad place but it's not what i want to do. I'm a production technician there that's rarely given opportunities to put engineering skills into practice. I've enjoyed things so far as it was all new but i felt i learnt more towards my trade at my last job and long term there isn't much progression. I left on good terms so could have alwaya gone have but was tpp proud, and they did offer to match my new job but i was tpo stubborn to accept and wanted change.

Now a new job has come up and an interview friday and i really want to give it my best shot but my partner feels 4k a year drop is too much on top of travel when we are supposed to be going in for a mortgage together. I'm currently not getting any younger at 31 and feel i need to do this tp get the experience otherwise I'll be chasing closed doors. I won't get a better offer for higher money due to my lack of experience being an engineer. The only experience i have is at shop floor level .

Would you accept a drop in pay for a chance i feel would be better long term and more fullfilling? Would you also mention these concerns at an interview?

 

[Jonnybmac]

I'd certainly make a point of mentioning your current salary if their offer is going to be lower than it and try to get them to raise the offer a bit. Obviously this is contingent on you doing well in the interview process.

How likely do you think you'd get another shot at something like this in future? I mean if you want to get a mortgage with your partner then maybe it is worth securing that first and then switching roles. If it isn't some dream job/one off shot etc.. then perhaps better to make sure you're not both adding to stress at work and have additional stress at home as a result of taking the pay cut too, especially when you're at the most important stage of your degree!

Do you mention your nearly complete OU degree on your CV - I mean you perhaps ought to be able to take a punt at roles equivalent to the sort of work they'd give a university student going into their final year or perhaps a fresh engineering grad even. I mean there might not be any harm in perhaps phoning up a few employers that hire engineering grads and seeing if they'd take a look at you at this stage regardless... don't ask, don't get.

I'm from a finance then tech background myself and in both cases we had ambitious non-grads hired in grad roles, one kid in the NYC office (I say kid as he was about 19 or 20) got sent to our London office to take part in the grad scheme, he was part way through a degree course that he attended in the evenings and had initially been hired in a junior role in the company but had impressed one of the senior guys over there and got stuck on the new grad scheme. According to Linkedin, 10 years or so later he's doing rather well at a large US bank.

I'm just wondering how I make a point. Do i ask if there is a 2nd stage interview at the end, and if yes then keep quiet if/when i make it to one. If not then i say the reason i ask is to talk level of promotions and realistic timescales to target for. I will mention i would be taking a £4000 or 17% drop in salary to take this job and feel it is necessary sacrafice to ensure i am surrounded by valuable people and support to accelerate my carrer in the right direction but is some thing i will struggle with a house and family to support.

I feel 20k is what i would be worth not having any design experience. I live and work in the north east and i doubt any grad round here would get anything more. I did try for a grad scheme for caterpillar and got quite far through the process for someone to ring me up and tell me they are sadly terminating my application due to not actually graduating yet. I still have 2+years left until i graduate so its still a relatively long way away, but just feels too long with how long I've been studying and the fact i feel i need to get into the field npw and take a cut rather than later.

I mention on my CV I'm qualified to HNC and currently over half way through my HND.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Yeah thats the point. It does look a relatively large, qualified and secure company. Owned by a ftse 100 company withan operating income of half a billion and 12,000 employees.


I was sent 2 job specs and on one it says "Highly competitive and negotiable (+excellent benefits package)" and the other "£18,000 - £20,000pa". The agency asked was it still okay to drop to 20k a year and I said yes.

The job itself in terms of responsibilities and requirements for the junior mechanical engineer i cannot say hand on heart i could fulful off the bat but around 30/40% id have to set at targets / goals, which would say i shouldn't push for more than is offered. I do believe in paying what im worth and in 12 months time i would like a review of my performance, but i feel saying this in an interview is a no no.

I did ask the agency how many i'm competing with and what they know about me to recueve this.

You are up against two others but I do know that they are very much looking forward to meeting you.



They have you CV and a short paragraph from me just briefly explaining your skillsets.

To be fair it sounds a good job if there's chance for progression. Even if not, with experience i could well move on regardless I'd just need to convince my partner that pausing my life for a year or so getting by on 20k a year would have a long term benefit.

 

[Jonnybmac]

What type of engineering? 20k seems low if you have a lot of relevant experience.

Can you not identify your experience as being relevant to design?

The field is wide though!

These are the job specs

Spoiler

Role Title: Junior Mechanical Engineer
Business Unit: XXX
Location: XXX
Salary: £18,000 - £20,000pa
Benefits: Annual Bonus Scheme; Pension Option; Flexible Working Hours; Healthcare; 25
annual holidays (+statutory); Share Match Scheme
__________________________________________________________________________________
Reporting to the Principal Engineer, the role will be required to support and provide the engineering
design service for the business. The role requires you to work with minimal support and guidance to
pursue robust engineering designs to cost, specification and schedule within a structured
multidiscipline team. It is important that you can perform basic engineering calculations
unsupported, are conversant with 3D CAD modelling / drafting, and can generate Bills of Materials,
document registers, and supporting documentation for build packs. The role also involves
coordination of manufacture with suppliers.
Key responsibilities:
 Work within the Engineering Support Team to deliver new and bespoke Mechanical
engineering designs to the business
 Report and manage engineering quality concerns through company quality systems and
procedures
 Perform CAD / drafting to the required company standard using Solidworks
 Develop products and solutions to the required standards and regulations
 Perform and document design calculations using the appropriate tools
 Support design reviews, documenting meetings and use close actions to provide an audit
trail
 Liaise with internal customers and make agreement on delivery of engineering items and
product
 Liaise with engineering suppliers to ensure feasibility, and complete definition of
components
 Drive engineering with a focus on QCD (Quality, Cost and Delivery)
 Provide robust engineering solutions and problem solving ability
 Drive and develop existing products striving for engineering excellence through quality cost
and delivery
 Contribute and consider good health & safety practice
 Consider environmental and compliance factors as defined by regulation and company
standards
Requirements:
 Previous experience working with or in Mechanical products, a manufacturing environment,
metallic products, design
 Minimum HNC / HND in Mechanical Engineering
 Proficiency in the use of IT Programs
 Proficiency in the use of CAD (3D and drafting) and the Microsoft suite of software
 Experience of Electronic & Mechanical integrated systems
 Some previous experience working in design office
 Excellent communicator
 Be motivated to learn, be receptive of advice and resilient to critique
 Can work independently, self-manage time and plan work and engineering activities after
guidance from other engineers and managers within the business
 Ability to understand detailed engineering from the perspective of the supplier
 A good understanding of machining, welding, and fabrication and material
 Understanding of basic mechanisms and mechanical systems
 Have drive and enthusiasm
 Ability to work within a team
 Enthusiasm for technology and engineering
 Be motivated to learn and progress
 Be motivated and have commitment to deliver
 Have the ability to create novel solutions to sometimes difficult problems
 Capable of articulating engineering information to colleagues and customers

Spoiler

Role: Junior Mechanical Engineer
Location: North East
Salary: Highly competitive and negotiable (+excellent benefits package)
__________________________________________________________________________________
Our client are a leading global leader in diagnostic measurement and instrumentation. Due to
expansion, they are now looking to recruit for a Junior Mechanical Engineer, reporting to the
Principal Engineer, to support and provide the engineering design service for the business.
Key responsibilities:
 Work with minimal support and guidance within the Engineering Support Team to deliver
new and bespoke Mechanical Engineering designs to cost, specification and schedule
 Perform basic engineering calculations unsupported
 Generate Bills of Materials, document registers, and supporting documentation for build
packs
 Perform CAD / drafting to the required company standard
 Develop products and solutions to the required standards and regulations
 Drive and develop existing products
Requirements:
 Previous experience working with or in Mechanical products, manufacturing and design
 Minimum HNC / HND in Mechanical Engineering
 Proficiency in the use of CAD (3D and drafting) and Microsoft suite
 Some experience of Electronic & Mechanical integrated systems
 Previous experience working within a design office
 Be motivated to learn, be receptive of advice and resilient to critique

I'd be asking all sorts of questions at the interview in terms of progression opportunities, stuff like 'for previous junior mechanical engineers, how long has it taken them on average to move up to a non-junior position/senior engineer?'

Remember the interview isn't just for them to see if you're the right person for the job, it's also for you to see if the company/role is what you're looking for. Some places I applied for were quite honest about progression and that basically closed the door on those opportunities - I moved jobs 7 months ago and made a sideways move only gaining 1.5k a year - £21k to £22.5k (plus a much shorter commute) and some of the other jobs with sideways moves said they required people to do 2 years at that level before a promotion would even be considered. I'm aiming for £30k in 18 months from now (2 years from the original move) so obviously those companies were not going to be a right fit for me. I'm a bit older than you at 37 so progression is right at the top of my priorities.

So long as it works out financially in the short-medium term, doesn't affect your mortgage prospects too badly, and the company is a good fit, then go for it. As for convincing the missus - just point out to her that if you stay where you are, you'll probably be on the same money for the next 2-3 years. Moving jobs will mean a paycut but in a year or 2's time you could (should!) be on £30k, or whatever the going rate it for an experienced engineer.

Good luck

That's a good pitch on how to deliver the fact of enquiring about promotions thank you.
I do beleive with a bit of experience behind me I would be far more desirable to higher paid roles

 

[Jonnybmac]

£18-£20k to do that and they want experience too?
We pay people that to answer the telephone.

I'm not taking the mick or anything, it just sounds underpaid, is this the form in the industry for such a role? Really surprised.

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Junior_Mechanical_Engineer/Salary

I would say it is a starting salary. I don't think they expect somone to have all that experience - to be fair what they require is more in line with a mechanical engineer and not a junior, which is more around the 30k role. I would hope there would be a review in 6 months or 12 months at the latest. At worst even if I got 2 years under my belt, once I graduate and with a few years experience I should hope to achieve a salary of 30k elsewhere.

It is really dire round here for junior roles and the likes. If I put what I wanted in the midlands or warwickshire location it comes up with pages of job roles, but where I want and within 30 miles it brings up very few.

 

[Jonnybmac]

I haven't looked too much at the job specs but I'd try tailor your previous experience to the role and get paid the max possible.

For what it's worth i know some engineering apprentices (zero experience, just gces ) at 4 days a week + college getting circa 17k near me.

I agree that getting a role with good experience is more important than salary but it sounds like if you have a head on your shoulders you should get paid more.

Can you finish degree quicker to get paid more sooner? (I imagine it's frustrating as the likelihood is you won't know anymore relevant material than current after graduating )

For what it's worth I now get 175% of what I started with 4 years after graduating, so salary progression is there! I did move from graduating in Glasgow to Cambridge to Warwickshire to get job roles (and Warwickshire is near Mrs' family so going to stay here for a while, Glasgow is similarly difficult for junior jobs).

Generally apprentices do get more as companys get grants and such to employ these people. My problem is that I'm mature and why pay someone top when they can drag someone in who is younger and probably get benefits from doing so.

I could finish earlier but at a sacrifice of no life. I am also on track for a first(still time to fall to a 2:1) and would like to continue at a manageable rate to ensure I gain the best scores I can. It is frustrating not using what I am learning as I feel I do not retain it well since I am not using it on a regular basis.

Relocation would make things easier but isn't an option as my partner wouldnt agree and not sure I would want to be away for long periods either. She actually used to live in Warwickshire so it would be ideal to move down there but shes made a life up here now with friends, plus her daughter and wouldn't want to move away from her or split her up from her friends / boyfriend.

I've been doing research on the company via glass doors. Would it be acceptable to mention I have noticed a few negative reviews based on "no clear progression/system" and that "they need to invest in better staff training" - but state I understand it is usually unhappy people that write reviews so my questions would be as tall pall sugests "Is there an average time to move up the ladder" and "Would you be able to put a career plan in place for myself" as I would not want to be stagnated in a role.

Thanks for all the tips by the way it has been a lot of help

 

[Jonnybmac]

Re: apprenticeships you're correct regarding grants but you just have to sell yourself as well as possible (ie what value you add compared to X) . I find if you're very enthusiastic and really sell yourself and interest to the role it will help. (even if cringey to do so!)

I would imagine most companies with a bit of googling will have some bad press so I wouldn't explicitly mention it.

If the main reasoning is training/progression I would press them on "what will my every day tasks be" "what progression is there in the role" "where can I expect to progress /have similar candidates progressed". An interview is 2 way and they should be trying to sell the role to the right people. Problem with that is they might oversell the role to you, so almost have to interrogate them!

Getting a 2:1 is important but difference between that and a 1st becomes less important. Having a good fundamental understanding is always good tho!

I got oversold in my current job trying to be honest and focusing more on my own pitcj. This time i will be looking to ensure it is as right for me as i am for them.

Thank you again your help it has been very valuable

 

[Jonnybmac]

Worth attending the interview but I would walk away if you are not 98% satisfied with the answers and discussion about development opportunties - ask for tangible examples of how people have moved on from the equivalent role, about how they structure staff development plans, etc.

Yeah I'm going to ask a lot of questions at the end thank you

My brother inlaw has the same job and his take home pay is 3k a month so you are being under paid

As a junior engineer with no experience?

 

[Jonnybmac]

When are you likely to be applying for the mortgage?

To be honest that looks like an ambitious job spec for the salary. For example, we would not expect our draughting staff to carry out design calculations. Are you confident in being able to do the calcs at this stage through your degree?

I can't work out exactly what they are asking for - it looks like a cheeky attempt at halfway between a grad and a draughtsman with none of the pay. It would be good experience though, a bit of a do-it-all job.

Not sure what calcs they would be asking me for so I would not know. It is ambitious but at the same time throw me in at the deep end and let me swim. If i need to do calcs then show me how I'm confident i could do them, but at the price they offer i don't think they would expect anyone to be able to recite calcs from the back of their hand.
I did well with my maths modules such as calculus and even taylor series. My last module was heavily orientated towarda calculations such as stress fracture, bending moments etc.

Ideally i would have liked to have got a foot in the bottom as a draughsman but this seems as you say a taste of everything.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Like you say, you'll probably be alright. Basic calcs would likelybe checking bending stresses, shear, maybe some fatigue etc. or sizing pipes and pumps depending on the equipment. Doing the actual calcs isn't the difficult part, it's knowing how to do them against certain design standards like Eurocodes or DIN or whatever. This is what strikes me as odd in the job post - it seems unfair to expect a Junior Engineer to be able to do all that without any supervision. You don't learn working to codes at uni, in general, so it's all picked up through on the job learning and mentoring.

If you get it, you'll be fine though. Good experience. Are you thinking of getting a mortgage soon? As soon as you graduate you can ask them to put you on a grad scheme or promote you to the grade above grad based on your experience. I'd say that would be about 25k minimum. I think our grads are on around 28-30k, depending on industry, with a "golden hello".

Just so you know, almost all employers would rather have a person who has real experience and has done a degree part time off their own back than a fresh grad with a couple of summer jobs. Apart from the added experience, there's less chance the part time uni person will be whinging about the lack of vegan milk alternatives in the office fridge...

Well my partner wants to move out of our home she solely owns to get a joint morgage. Her fixed rate is up in march and she doesn't want to enter another 2 years unfortunately so im going to have to be selfish in my decision. I'm not sure I'm just being impatient and should wait till i graduate but i just don't want to end up graduating and falling short of finding somewhere as ill be 34.

I do get the standards part. Part of my previous role as a cmm inspector was using asme y14.5 2009 for gd&t and the specifications just for that are enough of a headache to learn for inspection never mind abiding to them for drawing.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Well i took the interview. Had the nerves a bit as I didn't know what to expect and the more through the interview we went the more I thought this could be a very good opportunity.

Got asked to pick an item from my home and describe how it works. I said a kettle! ...er.. it has a heating element that heats water. Okay I've probably picked the wrong item here to describe... it will most likely have a bimetalic strip that when it reaches a temp of 100°C.
Then he asked how it heats the water and responded by electric resistance. Then asked where the electric comes from, and how many volts will it have. Stumbled and said I'm going to be honest and say I would be guessing the answer and said 240v - correct!

Then i got a set of questions to go through such as a a stress calculation, torque calc and hoop stress, formulas given except for torque .got them correct, failed on a welding symbol and passed on identifying pictures of a lathe, mill and micrometer.

The interview ovenran the 1 hour they scheduled so as far as flow went i had enough to talk about and it seemed very informal bar the few questions.

They answered all my questions and said there is two roles available, to replace someone who left who had a masters degree. They want to train someone up who is prepared to stay in the company and grow. The role will be a crash course and they need someone who can be a sponge and absorb everything. I will be walked through everything from the ground up, and introduced to a lot of different aspects and walked through all the different standards they have to follow.
I did mention if i get the role i would purchase a student version of solidworks to refresh my skills as i havent used it in years and I'm more familiar with autodesk and they said not to bother spending money, they are prepared to coach someone and mentor them up to speed.

I was honest with where i was skills wise, didn't big myself up more than i am capable as i said to them i want to be open about where i am so i can get the proper skills and development. Told then i won't be as efficient off the bat as I'm mostly home taught and never drawn in a working environment.
They commented saying i did a very good interview and both present had positive smiles on their faces as we shook to leave. He did ask if i was able to bring my portfolio of work back if i was to get through to the second interviews so not sure if that was a hint that I'll be back.

Now i know they are replacing a serior engineer i could probably push a few more grand out of them and they would still be getting a cheaper deal of two people and less money.


Tldr:
Interview went well. Like the job even more than i first thought. Training will be given and no expectancy to know much or anything as long as i grasp the basics and can absorb information. The stuff they do is pretty complex and they adhere to many standards and specifications so a lot to learn, or a lot of feathers tp my cap depending on how you look at it. Mid next week wait to find out if i get through to 2nd stage.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Been asked to return for a second meeting to iron things out. Feedback was that they were really impressed with me and the interview went very well. They have dropped the other applicants as they wernt up to expectations and so there is only me in the running.

Didn't discussed pay in the first meeting but I am going to ask if they are willing to meet me half way with pay so i only take a 2k pay cut rather than 4

 

[Jonnybmac]

Thank you. I'm still torn as to what to do if I don't get more than 4k. Do I take it? Is it unfair to waste peoples time and clearly the agent who headhunted me's commission by saying no. Would i get another opportunity like this I'm not too sure

 

[Jonnybmac]

I took a 35% pay cut (substantially more than 4k) last year when I changed department within my company, and it was a terrific move for me. I did go from a six day (Friday - Wednesday) week to a five day week (Mon - Fri) so increased the amount of free time I have but the drop in money isn't really an issue. Sure, I'm not saving like I was but I'm much happier, I enjoy going into work (mostly), I'm happy with what I do there and I love having my weekends. I've made a bit of a cutback to my life style but I'm not spending more than I'm earning and I'm much happier.

My point? If the job will make you happier, and you can survive on the lower money then do it. Money isn't everything.

I guess it is what you can comfortably afford sometimes, but 20k isn't much a year for me anyways so 17% is a lot when it takes you to a knife edge of finances.

I'd go through the 2nd interview, they're bound to ask what you're currently on and then they'll ask if you're OK with taking a pay drop. Maybe avoid answering the 'So how much are you looking for?' question, instead state that you're currently on X and ideally don't want to drop too much money, but a small drop is OK for the experience and progression you'll gain in the new role

Then, if they offer you the position and they come in £4k or more under what you're currently on, you can go back (knowing you're the only candidate left and they obviously want to hire you) and try and negotiate a couple of extra k a year. £2k a year won't break the bank for them, I guarantee - but if it's the difference between them getting a great person for the job and paying £2k more than they wanted, or having to go through the entire recruiting process again...

Basically, if (when! ) they make an offer, then you start to negotiate if the offer isn't quite what you'd hoped for. Don't just flat out say no if it's £4k less, it's like buying a car - You make a low offer, which always gets rejected, the seller comes in a bit over half way between your offer and the asking price, you then increase a little and they bite

Now - it may also be that what they offer is the maximum they can offer, in which case you'll need to say 'give me a couple of days to work out the finances' and then sit down with the missus and weight up the pros and cons, long term vs short term etc.

Some good tips there thank you, will definitely put them to good use

You sound pretty close to the type of person I'd employ if looking for a graduate with a couple of years of experience.

That would net you about £25k, maybe more down here in the SE.

I was almost in your exact position 7 years ago with only shop floor experience, minus the degree and a year younger. I'd put myself through a HNC and was completing my HND at the time I applied for a design engineer position where I currently work. I did well enough that after 3 years I was sponsored through a part time degree and am now in charge of design where I work.

The interview questions you were asked were strikingly similar to those we ask interviewees, and it sounds like you did okay. The inability for some people, even at master's level, to answer basic technical questions is shocking. Getting some questions wrong is fine, though.

From what you've said, it sounds very promising. I'd personally try to negotiate upwards to your ideal figure, especially seeing as they've shown their hand and you're apparently the only one left in the running. They can only say no.

Thank you and valid point about them showing their hand. Hopefully i can use it to my advantage

Thanks for the tips everyone

 

[Jonnybmac]

Don't worry about asking for more, you've not asked yet and you're already lowering it to meeting them half way?

If they have already dropped other candidates and you're the only suitable one in the running at the moment then perhaps they're not really offering enough money to begin with, either way you're in a fairly strong position. If they make an offer first then I don't see the harm in asking for more money and highlighting what you're already on. If you really want the job and they really can't budge much then bring up meeting you half way... but if this extra 4k means a lot to you and you'd be having to be super careful with money if only on 20k then it is worth pushing for the typical mid to large size firm it is nothing to them - it is worth trying to ask for what you want initially before dropping your offer.

The majority of hiring managers tend to keep some budget to one side when making an initial offer to a job applicant and the majority of job applicants don't ask for more money... so most people are needlessly leaving money on the table, most of us do feel awkward asking for more money, we shouldn't. I guess as they've seemingly given a salary range up front there is a possibility of them being a bit less flexible but it would be worrying if they couldn't even meet you halfway... I mean I presume you'd be expecting a pay rise at the end of your first year of at least a few grand too, if not a pay rise after probation too (that is the other option perhaps if you have to fall back to them meeting you halfway, ask if they can then make it up to 24k when you pass probation - less risk for them and you're only taking a slight hit to your salary for a few months).

Re: the recruiter, I'm quite surprised they've not asked up front what you currently earn, it is almost a standard question to get out of the way what you earn and what you're looking to get etc.. (I mean I had one even go into what ifs like what if your current employer makes you a counter offer of X, would you stay etc...). Good recruiters don't tend to like surprises that stop them from closing a deal at the last minute. Regardless, don't worry about the recruiter, you're not making an unreasonable request in asking for more money and frankly if they're worried about it they should have covered this potential question themselves when initially talking to you.

The recruiter knows what I earn, and when asked about the 20k I did say if the right opportunity came up I would most likely drop wage. He did ask when he sent me the job am I still happy at 20k and I said yes because I didn't want to miss out on an opportunity. Now tall this has happened and I've had discussions with my partner, my outlook has changed in regards to thinking am I actually getting a raw deal here. I don't think I am when I consider the training I should get, but it would be nice not to take too much of a hit. At a guess I would also be paying £20-30pw more in fuel to travel there also, which equates to an extra 1-1.5k in fuel bills alone.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Make sure to factor in the extra fuel as that makes a huge difference to your actual take home pay.

@ £24k you're on (ignoring any pension contributions or other deductions) £1640 take home.
@ £20k you'll be on £1415 take home, but...

extra fuel @ £30pw x 48 = £1440 / 12 = £120 (lets say £115 for rounding sake) so that's an effective take home of £1300 which, in gross pay is...

£18,000. So you'd actually be taking a £6k pay cut from your current role. That's a 25% pay cut. £340 less take home pay a month, that's gonna be hard to swallow. So, try as much as you can to negotiate upwards if they offer you the position.

I know this as I currently cycle to work with maybe 1 day every week or 2 driving. If I started a new job with a 15 mile drive, I'd need to earn another £2.5k a year JUST to cover the fuel cost of getting to work and back in my 25mpg car.

Would it be wise to do the sums as you describe and present them to them if they ask? Or just keep it as a low key, I've done some calcs and I stand to lose 6k taking this job... are you willing to negotiate on your offer?

 

[Jonnybmac]

I don't think anyone would want to but i feel it would be good long term for my career.

Going to go to the meeting on friday and see where we end up. Hopefully they liked me enough to increase a little in what they advertised.

 

[Jonnybmac]

I'm not an engineer but I'm trying to become one.

The salary is low but I don't live anywhere near London where the cost of living is substantially greater.

 

[Jonnybmac]

So I had my second interview yesterday - went well.

Got a tour of the facilities; seems like a relaxed atmosphere throughout all offices. He said they like to operate like google, but not as far as them. There are lots of lounge chairs and meeting rooms, with free tea and coffee available where you can just go off and sit to discuss things and collaborate rather than being sat in an office.

They are prepared to micro-manage me and invest in a lot of training and development. Once I graduate from uni they would put me on a IMechE sponsored graduate scheme which would entail around 4 years of targets to set out and accomplish. They would also support me on a path to become a chartered engineer if that is what I wish to become.

He asked how I manage stress, and that it was his duty to ensure that I am not overloaded too much that I end up stressed. If I was to end up on the sick with stress he would feel he had failed in his role as a manager, and he considers himself a people person. He, and the person I would be under are both chartered engineers and he discussed how he wants to filter down the knowledge they both have and give back into engineering to progress someone forward. I will be taught from the ground up, and they want to introduce standards and proceedures into existing products to try and streamline their workflow as currently a lot of bespoke products are too bespoke, and could be standardised to reduce costs.

We spoke about the benefits of the company, pensions of which if I put in 6% they would take it to 26%. Share scheme where if I buy 1 they give you 2 free, free healthcare and life insurance. He introduced the talk of pay by saying he has advertised and was looking for between 18k-20k. I asked where I would fit into that bracket and he said he would put forward for me to start at the 20k. I mentioned that I was currently on 24k, and although I would not expect him to meet that given the set target, I would struggle to drop 17% to 20k. He understood, was pretty reasonable in understanding I would struggle and the drop in pay, and said he would put a sugestion forward to HR to try and get an increase from 20k, but we also discussed a possibility of starting out on 20k and it being reviewed in 6 months time if I was to reach reasonable targets and prove my worth as an alternative. He said the pay is low but its an entry level pay, and if you develop quickly your pay will relfect that; He couldn't see why in 2 years I would not surpass 25k with the experience I would have and my degree coming to an end, and that I should consider the long game rather than short term as the parent company is huge (14 billion revenue, FTSE 100, 12k employees) with great benefits and development opportunities.

In summary, he probably believed in me more than I did, and he's prerpared to support and walk me through all aspects of design and engineering from the ground up. He feels my past experience will be of advantage in his plans to move his department and projects forard, but understands I would be out of my depth initially but given enough time I should fly. He doesn't want me to go away and buy a solidworks student edition as he will provide training there for me, with an external training course.

Just got to wait now till monday to find out what sort of deal I get sent back, and review the contract to ensure everything is how it was described.

 

[Jonnybmac]

Thank you both. Calcs don't worry me. I did well at maths so I'm confident if shown I'll understand. An excel sheet is good advice.

I appreciate all the help given in this thread