Tax Avoidance: Are they all at it ?

Sin_Chase said:
All you people who never even knew what Tax Avoidance was prior to the Carr media witch hunt need to shut up and stop hurling abuse at persons operating fully within the law. If the law changes then it becomes evasion and illegal. Until such time, hush.
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Witch hunt? TBF, Carr was paying 1%. There's avoiding a bit of tax, then there's taking the ****
 
I pay my taxes out of moral obligation, ohhh no wait a minute, I pay my taxes out of legal obligation, morals doesn't even enter the equation as far as I'm concerned.
 
As Sean Locke pointed out, tax avoidance isn't illegal but nor is farting in a crowed hotel lift; it's just that most people wait until they get to reception as they consider other people.
 
Moses said:
Idiotic post, tbh.

Obviously tax avoidance isn't illegal... but, because that's the case, people aren't barred from airing their views on, and advocating a tightening of rules (or a relaxation to eliminate loop holes).
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You are the same guy who wants Copyright Infringement to be a Criminal Offence so your opinion on the matter is null and void!
 
I'm not going to argue your viewpoint on the subject.

You see, you are debating the rights of people to air their views on the topic. I do not debate that. I am merely indicating that those who have no idea what they are talking about hush themselves. Posts with parts such as "are they all at it?" like it is some kind of immoral/illegal/nefarious practice are ridiculous.

Discuss the law should you wish but attacking everyone who operates legally within a prescribed legal structure is just a bore.
 
Floogie said:
That's an irrelevance. The point is that adequate measures should be put in place so that:

a) people aren't tempted because they have no longer got the chance to avoid

b) people aren't tempted because they know they'll get caught
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This. Yes, most people would avoid paying if they could. But most can't, that's the point. These aren't tax loopholes, they're well established means for people earning sufficient amounts to avoid paying tax at the rates the majority are forced to pay. Why is that considered acceptable?

A full review and simplification of the uk tax system is well overdue.

I'm also surprised this doesn't fall foul of IR35.
 
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Is it just me who finds it hilarious, ironic and kind of tragic, that MPs are accusing other people of being immoral?
 
Sin_Chase said:
Posts with parts such as "are they all at it?" like it is some kind of immoral/illegal/nefarious practice are ridiculous.
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I started the thread so i guess i'm guilty of that one, but given the media viewpoint that its some kind of shock that people have these schemes, i thought it would make a nice sensationalist title bound to get discussion going.

It worked :D
 
Housey said:
I suspect it is often people who don't earn that much, relatively, who find it unfair. Whilst it's not fair and stupid to broad brush these things of course, it would be interesting to see the demographic behind the different perspectives as I think more often than not it would be less highly paid people that have negative opinions towards efficient tax payments. If I look back 20 years I would have a much bigger issues towards such actions than I do now, odd that.

I suspect my musing will create some angst, but it is usually the have nots or certainly have less's that have the biggest issue with people having stuff, whatever that stuff might be, well in the UK at least, though of course again that's far from empirical and just musings...
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Overall I'd agree.

People (on average) tend to support social changes which would directly benefit them - all this proves is that most people are selfish.

But it's not true in all cases, I'd happily pay more tax to help out those at the bottom.

Call me a raging communist but I don't like the idea of other people working a full weeks work & scraping by with nothing with no disposable income while on the other hand I live in comfort with almost £2k per month disposable income.

Just because a large portion of the posters on this forum seem to despise the working class, it's hardly reasonable to paint everybody who supports progressive taxation as a "have not".
 
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Sin_Chase said:
It's legal.

Morals do not come into it.

All you people who never even knew what Tax Avoidance was prior to the Carr media witch hunt need to shut up and stop hurling abuse at persons operating fully within the law. If the law changes then it becomes evasion and illegal. Until such time, hush.
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Morals should come into everything people do. People aren't robots who simply follow the law and anything else is fair game. That's not a society I want to live in.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Overall I'd agree.

People (on average) tend to support social changes which would directly benefit them - all this proves is that most people are selfish.

But it's not true in all cases, I'd happily pay more tax to help out those at the bottom.

Call me a raging communist but I don't like the idea of other people working a full weeks work & scraping by with nothing with no disposable income while on the other hand I live in comfort with almost £2k per month disposable income.

Just because a large portion of the posters on this forum seem to despise the working class, it's hardly reasonable to paint everybody who supports progressive taxation as a "have not".
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I'd disagree. From my own observations, the people who tend to think like you and I seem to be more intellectual, who understand that there's a debate to be had about issues that aren't black and white such as morality and human nature rather than using simplistic arguments like "tax evasion = illegal; tax avoidance = fine" or "why would you pay more tax than you were legally required to?".
 
Government need to be asking why people avoid tax rather than pointing fingers and cracking down on avoidance/evasion.

Logically it makes no sense, why would you deprive your country of money for police, NHS, schools, etc?

Answer: Because most people believe they are sinking their money into the welfare system, politicians pockets and stupid middle management, IT and restructuring schemes. Thus they don't want Gov to get their hands on it.

Solution? I'm not sure, maybe a bit more transparency about where our taxes go? Perhaps some say in how our money is spent? Prioritise healthcare, education and policing whilst cutting Politician salaries? Ha!
 
scorza said:
Morals should come into everything people do. People aren't robots who simply follow the law and anything else is fair game. That's not a society I want to live in.
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+1

I think the Jimmy Carr incident has simply brought these practices into the public sphere and the general reaction has been negative.

No, they aren't doing anything illegal.

Yes, it's down to the government to change the law to stop these practices from continuing.

But, without public opinion as a guide, how is the government supposed gauge whether to make it priority or not?

I do find it funny that (according to these forums) you are either a hard-working, wealthy job creator and are fully entitled to take advantage of any scheme that will reduce your contribution to society OR you're a work shy benefits scrounger who should have access to any government support stripped from you for being so useless at the game of life.
 
scorza said:
I'd disagree. From my own observations, the people who tend to think like you and I seem to be more intellectual, who understand that there's a debate to be had about issues that aren't black and white such as morality and human nature rather than using simplistic arguments like "tax evasion = illegal; tax avoidance = fine" or "why would you pay more tax than you were legally required to?".
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The main reason I tend to believe as I said is due to the fact that self interest is promoted very highly in our society.

Our entire capitalist model tends to promote personal self-interest, which ultimately causes people to side politically with whichever entity is likely to increase their potential earning power most (well, they are told this - in reality people often vote against their interests due to being sold lies & political propaganda).

If society rewards greed, it shouldn't be surprising if those traits are expressed, expanded & become central to the characteristics of the population.

I don't believe humans are naturally greedy or altruistic, we simply act in accordance to whatever values are rewarded.

scorza said:
Morals should come into everything people do. People aren't robots who simply follow the law and anything else is fair game. That's not a society I want to live in.
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Indeed.

It depends on how people answer this question.

"What is the purpose of society?."

Is it to generate GDP?, wealth?, material goods?, to improve the quality of life of the population?, to reduce total human suffering?, to gain personal wealth & lord it over the rest of the population?.

Political views are an expression of this question in practical form - personally, I'd like to reduce total human suffering - as it's all meaningless anyway, we may as well make life a little more bearable.

My political views are based on what science indicates will allow society to reach the goal "to reduce total human suffering".
 
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