Tax.... what is everyone’s problem with it?

[dowie]

I do find the attitudes of people towards work in this country very odd. People want to be driven to the brink of burn-out - they see that as a means to self-improvement, rather than being an unbalanced way to live your life.

I think that is only a small minority of people. Some people actively choose that lifestyle, want to work ridiculous hours... some are high flying salarymen in banks/law firms etc... others are perhaps entrepreneurs who have an idea they're obsessed with and putting all their waking hours into.

There are plenty of other people out there who will work say a 9-5 and then put hours into some video game every evening.

Whether you burn out or not seems to be more related to stress - sure if you're putting 12 hour days into something you don't particularly enjoy or that is very stressful then that's not a healthy situation.

If you can work 9-5 and then spend another 4-5 hours playing a computer game or watching TV then some other person doing some work they enjoy can just as easily have the same amount of screen time and do a 12, 13, 14 hour day Monday - Friday.

(not that either is particularly balanced but there are plenty of people in jobs they hate who do say 9-5 and are then mindlessly stuck in front of a screen (TV/games etc..) for a few hours each evening regardless)

Funnily enough a lot of the countries with better happiness and better work/life balance also pay more tax than we do. But they're all dirty socialists, eh The only true path is ultra-capitalism, with as small a govt/state as possible.

Various of them aren't too different... I mean it is hardly as though Canadians are excessively taxed, IIRC Switzerland is supposed to be low tax...

Anyway I don't have an issue with paying a bit more tax as I already stated, my objections are to the silliness re: marginal rates like the 60% rate when you lose the personal allowance and the silly attitude re: shoving tax rises just on the top end or the dumb arguments that it's only "X" amount and people should be lucky to earn Y amount therefore we should tax them more...

Some of these countries with a better quality of life tax people earlier along the income scale. I'm not sure many of them have a 60% marginal rate either.

 

[Sudden]

It's about priorities and what you value more - working set hours, being paid accordingly, and having the rest of your time to do more of what you enjoy, or working a lot more, being rewarded accordingly (in a lot of cases - not all of course) and correspondingly having less time to enjoy other things. Work-life balance is poor because people sometimes choose it. But then if you choose the former, you also can't expect the lifestyle that comes with the latter.

Part of the annoyance I imagine comes from the fact that if people choose the latter, they feel like they are penalised for it by paying more tax, a large chunk of what they earn not actually being available to them and this is because they'd rather have a more lavish lifestyle and sacrifice time towards that instead, whereas others can choose not to (as is their prerogative), but then rely on others doing it instead.

I completely appreciate that not everyone is in a position to make that choice, but a lot of people in this country are. I grew up in India where the lack of choice and education is far more real and the family/economic class you're born into will make a huge difference which is next to impossible to overcome. With state education, I don't think it's the same here. The opportunities do exist, though it might mean that they are more difficult for some to gain access to (but not impossible). Again, not in 100% of cases I imagine, but I can't believe it's as little as some people on the thread make it out to be. Open to being corrected - I haven't done research into this, just my own, uninformed, view.

My cousin used to be an investment banker with the top banks etc. but eventually realised she didn't like that trade-off and would rather spend her time doing things she actually enjoys, so is now a farmer in southern India instead. However she then also lives that lifestyle and doesn't expect (or in her case, want) to live a different one. She barely has furniture, doesn't travel much or takes buses/trains if she does instead of flights, and spends her time reading, swimming, learning new things instead. Didn't even have a smartphone until recently. She is by far one of the smartest people I know.

What stuck with me was when she messaged me once just asking what I was up to and it was just the normal work/going out etc. Asked her the same and she said that she was learning a different language, reading 'x' books, learning how to ocean dive etc. I recall saying "That sounds awesome, wish I could do that" and her response was just "You can. Quit.". It's not a route I'd go down because I like being able to spend on things and don't mind working hard/to the brink of burn-out as FoxEye puts it to achieve it. It's also partly because I enjoy what I do. But if I did choose not to do that anymore, I also need to live with the fact I can't spend on the new console/phone things I would like to. I'm not willing to make that trade-off, so I don't. Not sure that means that I shouldn't be able to take home a chunk of what I'm given as compensation for working like that.

 

[FoxEye]

Some of these countries with a better quality of life tax people earlier along the income scale. I'm not sure many of them have a 60% marginal rate either.

It's a whole package of things which makes pointing to one thing in isolation sometimes fairly meaningless.

So a lot of these countries perhaps have lower housing costs, or more rights as tenants, yadda, yadda.

The overall package in the UK, whilst maybe not suffering the extremes of the very worst places to live (and die), is fairly self-centred and uncaring for a developed country.

We need to spend a boatload more in health, social care, and various other things. Housing, you name it. Or we are going to slide backwards into some fairly bad extremes of poverty and illness.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

as per title really, why aren’t people proud to pay tax and always looking for ways to avoid it.

I’m always being told of more creative ways to avoid tax and how my employees pay tax so I needn’t feel guilt etc.
we already have fairly low taxes compared to other comparable European countries.

We have a reasonable health, education, judicial system, why are people not proud of contributing?

In this age of patriotism could we not all be waving out tax bill boasting of our contribution to the country?

I'm not so much bothered about paying tax but I do get bothered at where some of it goes ..... or doesn't as the case may be.

 

[Deus Ex]

That’s a pretty good salary you had as a junior doctor locuming. Knowing what rates most trusts pay their juniors that must have been a hell of a lot hours.

It was full time locum, did 4-5 12 hour shifts a week, half hour deducted break, Just under £48/hr all the time, aka triple my current pay as a CT1 per hour.

Please don't tell me you're struggling on 4.5k a month after tax...

That was for 12 months, back down to £2.5k now I'm back in 'training'. I wasnt struggling but I did feel a bit aggrieved at the tax I paid.

 

[dowie]

It's a whole package of things which makes pointing to one thing in isolation sometimes fairly meaningless.

But the thread literally is about tax... not what countries are good to live in and what other aspects are there etc... so to reply to a point about tax with some comment about looking at things in isolation is a bit silly. The comment was made about a flaw in our tax system, I'll point out (yet again) that I don't have an issue with paying a bit more in tax.

 

[Minstadave]

It was full time locum, did 4-5 12 hour shifts a week, half hour deducted break, Just under £48/hr all the time, aka triple my current pay as a CT1 per hour.



That was for 12 months, back down to £2.5k now I'm back in 'training'. I wasnt struggling but I did feel a bit aggrieved at the tax I paid.

Don't worry it's all kinds of worse a consultant.