Teachers on strike

[wildman]

It is called democracy!!!! Get over it.

actually its called Oligarchy where by the power to bring the entire workforce of action is held in the hands of the minority of people. So its not even really democratic is it ?

even though there is opprotunity for more to vote it doesn;t make it any more democratic that the minority can result in bringing parts of the country to its knees (generalisation here)

 

[Freakbro]

even though there is opprotunity for more to vote it doesn;t make it any more democratic

It does to me, the people who don't take take part in the vote are basically implying that they will leave the decision up to, and go along with, what the others decide.

doesn;t

I always hit the semi-colon as well, annoys the hell out of me

 

[MrMoonX]

To those complaining about the strike ballot turnout, here's a counterpoint:

Less than 40% of registered voters voted for the Conservatives or Liberal Democrats at the last election. Does a government voted into power by a minority of people have a mandate to force these changes on teachers?

love how the tory fan boys and anti union ****s on this forum always ignore posts containing this vital piece of information

 

[Deleted member 66701]

yes of course that is what the retort is, why should you pay for something you don't use. I don't see non drivers paying car tax for example or fuel tax as they don't use it

Can I opt out of part of my council tax please as I take all my garbage to the landfill myself on a Saturday morning ? Additionally I pay for my own personal security guards so what ever taxation % I pay to cover police costs I'll take a refund on that too please ?

How about this then? You/everyone has a social responsibility to provide for those that don't have the means to provide for themselves. I.e., even if you don't want to avail yourself of free public healthcare, free public schooling, free social programs for unemployment mitigation, free public policing, then you should still contribute to ensure those services are available for those that cannot afford private alternatives.

Let me guess the next retort "I'm a filthy, right wing, I'm all right Jack capitalist and it's survival of the fittest". Close?

 

[wildman]

love how the tory fan boys and anti union ****s on this forum always ignore posts containing this vital piece of information

bit the same applies to the previous labour governments also so its not a case of ignoring it unless the left wing labour and union fnabois think its ok for their governments to be elected in this way also ?

 

[wildman]

How about this then? You/everyone has a social responsibility to provide for those that don't have the means to provide for themselves. I.e., even if you don't want to avail yourself of free public healthcare, free public schooling, free social programs for unemployment mitigation, free public policing, then you should still contribute to ensure those services are available for those that cannot afford private alternatives.

Let me guess the next retort "I'm a filthy, right wing, I'm all right Jack capitalist and it's survival of the fittest". Close?

Not when it was used as a means of bribing the electorate by the previous administration

 

[wildman]

I always hit the semi-colon as well, annoys the hell out of me

damn these hands, I should never have made that deal with the robot devil

 

[Irish_Tom]

bit the same applies to the previous labour governments also so its not a case of ignoring it unless the left wing labour and union fnabois think its ok for their governments to be elected in this way also ?

We're not saying it's right, I've even agreed with you that I'd like an Australian style system.

However, while this system is still in place for government you can't discredit a vote by the same process for a union because you disagree with the outcome.

We've just has a referendum on voting reform for government; how did you vote?

 

[Danthus]

The system needs to be changed.

 

[Freakbro]

The system needs to be changed.

Maybe so, but that's a different discussion.

How did you vote in the AV referendum? I voted for it.

 

[wildman]

The system needs to be changed.

but for both union voting procedures and government elections. The government can't and shouldn't be selective over application of such rules and ensure its universal for all voting procedures where there are high stakes.

Saying that it would only apply to strike ballots is weak and would simply imply that the government is only out to castrate the unions.

 

[Danthus]

Of course both need to be changed, I have never said any different.

 

[do_ron_ron]

actually its called Oligarchy where by the power to bring the entire workforce of action is held in the hands of the minority of people. So its not even really democratic is it ?

even though there is opprotunity for more to vote it doesn;t make it any more democratic that the minority can result in bringing parts of the country to its knees (generalisation here)

Democracy is what the majority of people who vote decide. This is the UK system. Stop trolling.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Of course both need to be changed, I have never said any different.

I actually disagree, I think the current system works fine - both in respect of government/local elections and Union ballots.

 

[Danthus]

I actually disagree, I think the current system works fine - both in respect of government/local elections and Union ballots.

Well you would because recent history suggests that strikes would not have happened if the thresholds had been changed.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Well you would because recent history suggests that strikes would not have happened if the thresholds had been changed.

And neither would we have had majority governments, which is the main reason I support the current system, not because of the reason you would tar me with.

 

[Danthus]

And neither would we have had majority governments, which is the main reason I support the current system, not because of the reason you would tar me with.

You support a flawed system because it suits you, lets not pretend otherwise.

 

[Danthus]

Also it is rather funny to hear the unions blaming the Conservatives and the banks for the financial problems considering Gorgon Brown raided the pension pot.

 

[Westyfield2]

Selfish people wanting someone else to pay for their pension

Ah, just arrived at this thread. Seven pages to read then....


But before I do:

Britain's public sector workers have gone on strike over demands that they pay more into their pensions, work longer and take pensions based on an average, rather than final, salary. Public sector workers are far more likely to have a workplace pension, but how does their retirement situation compare to those in the private sector?

Contributions
The Comprehensive Spending Review insists that all employees' contributions for public sector pension schemes should be increased by 3%. That would take teachers’ pensions contributions up from 6.4% to 9.4%. Buaccountants PwC say private sector workers would have to pay anything from 15% to 40% of their pay into defined contribution plans to get equivalent benefits, depending on the scheme and their age.

Age of retirement
The retirement age for teachers, NHS workers and civil servants has been increased from 60 to 65, but only for new recruits. However, these workers will still be guaranteed a pension scheme for life upon retirement. Those in the private sector, who see a less generous return on their pension contributions, may find themselves forced to work well beyond 65 in order to be able to afford to retire.

Value of Pension
Even though public sector workers are facing payout based on their career average salary, rather than the one they finish on, many in the private sector have also seen final salary schemes axed and replaced with less attractive defined contribution (DC) schemes. The Institute for Fiscal Studies calculates that public sector benefits are on average 14% greater than their private sector equivalent.

This helps explain why takeup among private sector pensions schemes has fallen in recent years, while public sector rates of participation have a small overall rise. Government figures show in the private sector, 39% of male employees and 28% of female employees belonged to a workplace pension scheme in 2010. In the public sector, male employee membership of workplace pension schemes was 87% while female employee membership stood at 82%.
Lord Hutton's pension report noted that high-flying civil servants in some cases saw up to double the return from their pensions contributions than those on lower rungs - distorting the average.​

 

[vicisthebest]

I'm a teacher. I didn't strike today. There are 24 teachers at my work and only one was on strike. The school was relatively normal, apart from the one class who weren't in.