Telescope advice?

Soldato
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Marlow
When I was young, I remember buying myself a small cheap refractor telescope and looking at the moon, the rings of saturn, jupiter and even the orion nebula. I'm contemplating buying a telescope just to look at these objects again, as well an allowing my son to get to grips with the fact we're really just on a lump of rock rushing/spinning through space...

Although I suspect the telescope wouldn't be used much, I'm willing to buy one to periodically view the night sky. So, I'm hoping for some advice from any astronomers here on a few questions?


Light polution
Where I lived when I was a kid it was in a fairly lit up area (near a main road and not far from a motorway/town - a mile or less), but none-the-less, in our back garden I could see Jupiter fairly well etc. Where I now live, there's probably slightly less light pollution, so I would hope to see the bands across Jupiter, its moons, and a fairly well defined smudge for the Orion nebula for example. Is that expecting too much? Will I be able to see that sort of detail from peoples experience with a low end (£150) telescope?

Is there any sort of simple rule of thumb for this? eg: If you can see X with the naked eye, then generally you're wasting your time with a telescope!


Portable
About 5 mins walk from my house are nice quiet fields. And it would be nice if the telescope could be walked and setup easily there.


Photography
I might be interested in attaching my D90 SLR, and taking some photos. I understand there's a couple of issues regarding how to attach/mount a camera to a telescope (eg: requiring a T-adapter & barlow) but wonder if this would also mean a motor might be required?

Would I be right in saying with a camera you can take numerous photos (eg: 20 photos each 1 second apart) and then using an application you can process them into a single more accurate/detailed photo? eg: Photographing Jupiter?


Keeping in view and Motors
I recall when I was a kid, on high magnification chasing Jupiter across my field of view... I assume these days with a modern telescope you just turn a dial to rotate/move the telescope in the equatorial plane to follow objects across the sky easily?

And I assume those telescopes with motors, they just do this movement for you? ie: Turn the dial at a slow constant rate?


Goto
Out of interest, I know some telescopes have "goto" computer control. Is this worth worrying about for the extra money? I assume this complicates the setting up/alignment of the telescope?


Model
Assuming I will be able to see enough objects well enough to justify a puchase, I'd be happy to spend around £100-200.

Any suggestions for something fitting the above requirements? eg:-
Skywatcher Skyhawk 1145P - 114mm - Approx £125
Celestron AstroMaster 130EQ-MD - 130mm motorised - Approx £150 (Although I've read some possible negatives about the tripod)

...and remember attaching an SLR and portability would be nice if possible?


Thanks in advance for any advice/help or personal experience(s).
 
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I'll come back to this later this evening :)

Thanks... Any help would be appreciated!


I'm trying to read up and understand why telescopes seem to split into, aimed at planetary observation and aimed at deep-sky observation.

I don't quite get (yet) why a telescope can't be reasonable at both. ie: It's aimed at capturing as much light as possible and magnifying it. So I'm having trouble seeing why a telescope that is aimed at viewing Mars well, can't also look at a nebula well too? And when I say "look" I mean visually and photographically.

Simply put, why does increasing a telescope's focal length (and not changing its diameter) suddenly make it better for deep sky and worse for planetary?



If there's a unit I could buy for say £200-400 ideally with a motor so it could at least track for a while, or ideally even GOTO, and that could give reasonable results for planets and nebula etc, that would be great. (Worse case I could buy one of the units I originally listed for around £150 to suck it and see.)

I understand for £100 or so you could then get a webcam of some sort that you could then use for photography. But I'm unclear if this is then ideal for just planetary photography, or also nebula as well?


So what about a Skywatcher Explorer 130P SupaTrak AUTO, or with Goto for example? Would I be able to do reasonably effect viewing and photography of both planets and nebula etc?
 
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^^ That's all useful thanks!

If we consider say the SkyWatcher EXPLORER-150P + EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO Newtonian, which is around £500! That's f/5 which I believe would be good for DSO? And I believe it should also give reasonable planetary views?

And wouldn't the SynScan allow me to take say 30-60 second exposures? So I lock onto to say a nebula, the Synscan tracks it. I tell my SLR (Nikon D90) to take say 10 photos, each say 30-60s exposures? These would then be stacked?

And even with planetary photography, either:-
- Take 50 photos and stack them.
- Take a LiveView and stack that output? Although the AVI is compressed, but is in 1280x720 resolution!?


So , one big question is, would that "EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO" keep the tracking accurate enough for x minute exposures?
 
Thanks again... You seem you're suggesting that SkyWatcher EXPLORER-150P + EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO Newtonian might not be smooth or accurate enough for minute long exposures for example?

A more robust setup, with a seemingly identical reflector might be a Celestron Omni XLT 150 with CG-4 German Equatorial Mount and Dual Axis Motor Drive for about £345+£91? That surely should be robust/accurate enough for 1 minute exposures? Although the lack of Goto is a shame :)



What I'm trying to do here is not spend a few hundred quid and find it's in the wrong direction. I'd rather spend a bit more, but wisely, to get something that lets me experiment and get reasonable results!?
 
well i started with a cheap £50 refractor off the carboot, then move to a meade etx125pe, then for more portible solution i got a skywatcher evostar 80 ds pro apo f/7.5 focial 600m (aka black diamond ed80). now if you want more get and go telescope the 150p might not be ideal choice as it quite big and tube weight's 6kg then got to carry tripod and various bit & piece so it can get to the point you carrying over 10kg. as for astrophotography im still just getting my foot in the door but the reflectors are very good at this and 150p has a lot of good reviews. personally if i was going the reflector route i would go for 150p ds, has the ds serise as the much better 1.25/2" dual speed crayford control on it which in my opinion is far better at focusing. as for mount if you wish to save i suggest getting a motorize mount that can be upgrade at later point to goto as with those mount it a simple task of replaceing the handset. so look for a motor mount that give you that option. i would look at the eq5 mount it may cost more than the eq3 but it lot more soild that the eq3 so it won't move about as much in the wind plus eq5 can carry lot more weight so if you ever decide to upgrade your scope you simple have to look a buying ota tube instead of telescope and tripod package.

Your comments about the 150p's stand are interesting. I mentioned the Celestron Omni XLT 150 with CG-4 German Equatorial Mount above because I believe it's basically the same telescope (same company owns both Stargazers and Celestron??) but on a much more robust mount - http://www.celestron.com/astronomy/celestron-omni-xlt-150.html

A motor can then be fitted this for under £100.


Yes, weight is a concern, but unfortunately it seems weight and image quality/capture sort of go hand in hand! :(
 
^^ I've looked on the Celesteron and Skywatcher sites at the mounts, and I can't seem to see what their weight limits are? ie: Could I fit a 150mm telescope, the dual drive kit, and a 1kg (D90) camera on?
 
OK... So we're talking about:-
SkyWatcher NEQ5 PRO GOTO SynScan Mount for about £412. And that would even take a 200P telescope, yet alone a 150P!

What's interesting is if you then add on the 150P separately, that will take it to about £600, but for £700 you can buy the SkyWatcher Explorer 200PDS/1000 EQ5 PRO GoTo.


Anyway, the important bit! So with the EQ5 mount, you'd then suggest it could keep a nebula or something lined up for ten or twenty minutes for exposures?
 

Crazy thing is, it seems cheaper to buy a 200PDS with an EQ5 Pro mount, than a 150PDS - http://www.optical-systems.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-200pds1000-eq5-pro-goto-tel-p-15431.html

But either way, we're now around £700... A good couple more than I'm confortable with ideally...
 
GHarris - Thanks for all that advice.

Light Pollution
Where I am I can just about make the milky way over head. But towards the horizon there's clear light pollution.

I thought I'd do a little test as regards light pollution. I've taken a couple of 20-30second shots of the night sky where I am with my DSLR. Straight up I can see a fairly good star field, but lower down (eg: 45 degrees) there obvious increased (bad) in light pollution.

I thought I'd try a light pollution filter to see how much this might help. ie: If my DSLR's performance is clearly improved, then it's reasonable to expect it to help on a telescope too.

As such I thought I'd buy one of these - http://www.firstlightoptics.com/light-pollution-reduction/skywatcher-light-pollution-filter.html

I've pinged them a question first to ensure the size/thread on this thing will allow me to connect it to my Nikon 50mm lens as per a normal (camera) filter.

Telescope
Assuming the light pollution is not a killer, then I suspect I would like to photograph nebula etc, which means an motor driven eq mount. So my current guess is a Skywatcher 150p on an EQ5 pro mount. This seems to be a good way of getting my feet wet by allowing me to do some planetary and deep sky viewing/photography.
 
Then you can buy the "light bucket" for just watching. I use a "Skywatcher 250P Flextube Auto".

I didn't even realise they did a motorised dobson like that!? How does it rotate left & right?

I suspect if you put a DSLR on it throws if off though? Ie: Viewing only? :(

You have to ask why haven't they got these with autotracking?
 
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It has motors in the base and axis, so it's alt-az not EQ.. Does work pretty well tho, given a bit of practice.

You /can/ mount a DSLR on it (it even has the 2" mount, so it's really nice and sturdy), but the field rotates (alt-az will) so you can't do long exposure, but it'll definitely work for stacking with a timer, or for planetary/moon... But it's clearly no replacement for a super-aligned EQ mount for astrophotography...

They do have a GOTO option, apparently you can upgrade the 'computer' handheld to the Alt-Az goto and it will work. Quite frankly I'm not too bothered. I use the iphone/ipad app to point to the sky and find the bits I want to see, then align the scope to watch them. I digital compass an a good digital protractor (about 20 quid of eBEEEPy) even allows you to just copy the alt/az values you find on the app...
Ahh, I suppose the scope simply won't 'rotate' along with the object being tracked! So for a minute long exposure although the object may stay centered, it would have rotated a bit during that time?

But boy do you get a lot of scope for your money with that combination!!!!!
 
Ok....Something I can get my teeth into here :D
Thanks for all that advice.

I actually am on the Stargazers Lounge forum, and actually have a somewhat parallel thread/discussion on there.

As regards, what I want to do, I suspect:-
- Some visual - Mainly the moon, and obvious planets (Jupiter & Saturn etc).
- Some photography - I suspect the more obvious object (at least to start with). eg: Moon and some deep sky stuff.

Now at the moment, to give me this, and allow a 1kg DSLR to be attached, I am indeed looking at a Skywatcher 150pds + EQ5 Pro (goto) mount.


Now, your wonderful image (& others like it) make me wonder if there's an alternative direction to go in instead with a refractor? The reason I would consider a refractor? Size & calibration. ie: Be easier to store, move around and easier to get up and running with.
 
while it is true that a refractor would indeed be easlier as there is no calibration, cool down is also lot quicker on refractor and it size and weight is much less than the reflector. they do tend to cost more well at least the apo one's do. currently you can get a SkyWatcher Evostar 100 ED DS PRO Refractor Optical Tube Assembly with free 0.85x REDUCER for £639.00 that Objective Lens Diameter: 100mm, Telescope Focal Length: 900mm (f/9) with a dual speed crayfprd Focuser (Backlash-Free).

Add a EQ5 mount onto that, and we're heading towards £1000 :eek:

What about something like this? http://www.f1telescopes.co.uk/shop.php?id=2639&level=

That's about the same price a 150pds with EQ5 pro mount would be... (I think the weight of the scopFrom es are basically the same too!?)


Given they weight and cost about the same what are the pros/cons?

From my noddy understanding the Evostar 120 will offer a higher usable magnification than the 150pds? So if you were to look at the moon or planets through both, the Evostar would be superior? But if you were say photographing the andromeda galaxy, the 150pds would require less exposure time? But I assume you could still use the Evostar 120 for such a purpose?



On the subject of payload limits. If we consider the EQ5 Pro, it has a payload limit of about 9kg. So the above scopes are about 5kg, so that would leave 4kg or so to play with? I assume the counter weights do contribute to this total? ie: If the 5kg of weights are employed, you still have 9kg of payload weight?
 
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my evostar 80 ed ds pro is 600mm @ f/7.5 so that suitible for dso but when i what to view planet i would need to add barlow len to it, so i use my 2" 2x apo barlow so it does what i want it to do. my only disadvantage is that i don't have a good enough tripod to use it correctly as im using a camera tripod so thier no tracking which can be real problem when viewing at high mag and ap. so at some point i need to either get a eq3-2 goto or eq5 goto so that i can use my telescope to it's fullest. as for other telescope need to get the adpaters so i can hook my camera to it and learn to use it correctly as it a meade etx125pe so for planets it very good.

Nice scope, but with a EQ5 Pro GOTO (which I'd want) it would add up to around £1000 :(
 
Nice and crisp...

Found this one done with a 300P. Not as crisp, but at least shows it can attempt to do interesting lunar imagess

cIRPM.jpg
 
first i use the main focus on the telescope, once i got the moon in focus i then use the 10x optical zoom on my 550d (when in liveview) to get a close look of the moon so that i can use the fine focus control to focus in better than the standard focus control. doing this allow you to get a sharper/crisper picture.if you don't have fine focus control you can still use this trick to get a sharper picture you just got to be extra careful when turning the focus control knob.

ps this method of using the liveview with 10x optical zoom can be used with camera lens when using manual focus.

I'll have to see if my Nikon D90's LiveView has a similar option to zoom the Liveview to focus.

Out of interested, how much of the resultant photo/image did the moon fill? ie: I assume it was a small fraction?
 
when using the 10x optical zoom you looking at craters, but without the 10x you looking at the moon and space around it you can get venus and jupiter in the frame sometimes. also please remember that i have crop these photo's so that only the moon showing.

Why not use a barlow to magnify more and try and improve the exposure?
 
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