Terror Plot Foiled

cleanbluesky said:
Courtesy of m-w.com

1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2 : one who commits treason

Hence he needs not be convicted for me to describe him as a traitor
Click to expand...

But what has he done to be labelled as a traitor? All we know is he is a muslim guy in your town that has been arrested on suspicion.
 
Biohazard said:
guarantee that at least half of those arrested are not charged
Click to expand...
I also guarantee that although the draconian security procedures now in place will be lifted eventually, they won't return to the level they were before all this happened. The next alert they will clamp down more and the process will repeat, they will remove our freedoms from under our noses and we won't even notice. :mad:
 
cleanbluesky said:
Apart from turning his back on his culture, choosing to associate with a rather dodgy group of people, we'll see when it comes to trial...
Click to expand...

Ahh so it's a little deep rooted, the fact he converted angers you?

Firstly, you can't say he has turned his back on his culture, do you know the person? Adopting a different way of life is his own choice and is not bound to follow a certain culture just because he was born in this country, that's the beauty of freedom.

Secondly, we don't know he is part of a dodgy group of people, we will find out sooner or later but at the moment it's not valid to state that.

Thirdly, you haven't described a person that is guilty of being a traitor. Has he betrayed another's trust? At the moment, no he hasn't but we will soon find out. He hasn't been convincted of undermining the government and has not proven to be disloyal, as it currently stands. So calling him a traitor just because he converted to islam is quite insulting to him and members of that community.
 
cleanbluesky said:
choosing to associate with a rather dodgy group of people, we'll see when it comes to trial...
Click to expand...
HOW do you know this? Quite a lot of the interviews on TV with people who knew some of those arrested are expressing stunned disbelief at their friends being participents in something like this. Honestly rallying around one's friend at a time like this is a good thing in my opinion. They've yet to be charged (one's allready been released) so for you to throw away the key is frankly awful.

As an aside I've read a number of times that those close to people who have commited vile crime such as murder-rape often have no clue as to the other life their friend/husband lived.

So the testiment ot good character being given to the press at this time I don't think has much relevance as to how many actually were involved in a plot.
 
gurdas said:
Ahh so it's a little deep rooted, the fact he converted angers you?
Click to expand...

Not really. How do you feel about my comments?

Firstly, you can't say he has turned his back on his culture, do you know the person? Adopting a different way of life is his own choice and is not bound to follow a certain culture just because he was born in this country, that's the beauty of freedom.
Click to expand...

The above sentence doesn't make sense. You say that I cannot claim he has turned his back, then suggested that he isn't following a 'certain culture' and that this is freedom.

As a culture we are not sexist or exclusionist, and it seems that he has turned his back on that. I pity him for it.

So calling him a traitor just because he converted to islam is quite insulting to him and members of that community.
Click to expand...

Probably is, but it is also unfair to let others indulge ideologies that are generally negative towards themselves and others.

I do agree that a trial will reveal most things.
 
I had to say summin about this but my mate compared this to bird flu and reckons its all overhyped....

Sat here watching the news and they said this wouldve been the bloodiest atrocity ever, how the hell can my mate make this out to be all over hyped?
 
cleanbluesky said:
Apart from turning his back on his culture
Click to expand...
Hang on haven't you done the same? IIRC you've rejected the religion of your forebearers and taken up pagenism. So if my recollection is true aren't you a traitor by your standards?
 
Last edited:
ElectroBlaster said:
I had to say summin about this but my mate compared this to bird flu and reckons its all overhyped....
Click to expand...
Bird Flu was over hyped but only by the media, making a possible future threat seem imminent and unavoidable.
Sat here watching the news and they said this wouldve been the bloodiest atrocity ever, how the hell can my mate make this out to be all over hyped?
Click to expand...
Over exposure to the media and not being able to grasp the essentials from the deluge of inane comment thaat pouirs forth during such events.
 
‘Quake money’ used to finance UK plane bombing plot

From PakistansDaily Times (requires free registration)

‘Quake money’ used to finance UK plane bombing plot

KARACHI: A UK-based Islamic charity organisation remitted a huge amount of money to three individuals in three different bank accounts in Mirpur, Azad Kashmir, in December last year with the sole purpose of helping its recipients and their organisations carry out the aircraft bombing plan in the UK, insider sources told Daily Times yesterday.

An investigation carried out by Daily Times showed that Muslim Charity of UK remitted not so long ago a huge amount of money under the head of “earthquake relief” to the accounts of three individuals in three different banks — Saudi Pak Bank, Standard Chartered and Habib Bank Ltd. One of these banks is UK based and has its presence in Azad Kashmir because of a huge number of British citizens of Kashmir origin in UK. The money was transferred from UK to banks in Azad Kashmir through Barclays Plc..

Two of the recipients of the transaction are British citizens of Kashmir origin while the third is an Islamabad-based builder, also of Kashmir origin. They were arrested in the last two weeks at three different places in the country. One of them was arrested in Karachi, the “builder” was arrested in Islamabad while the place of the arrest of the third suspect is still not known. There are no available details about these three suspects with regard to their links with organisations such as Al Qaeda or Lashkar-e-Taiba or both.

Pakistani FIA investigators were apparently tipped off by the British authorities about the fund transfers and asked to investigate. Following their arrests the three suspects revealed some key elements of the aircraft bombing plan during interrogations by various agency personnel, who were also aided by at least one expert specialising in money laundering. The Pakistani and British investigators were able to discover how operatives at both ends had raised and moved their funds around. These investigations also established that it was due to the prompt and successful operation of Pakistan’s intelligence agencies, particularly the FIA, that the world was saved from a fate worse than 9/11.

“Had we been even slightly complacent, the perpetrators of this plot might have been able to carry out their operations without little or no problem in the UK because of two broad reasons,” said a senior government official, who was privy to the inquiry carried out by Pakistani agencies following the receipt of a tip from UK’s National Terrorist Financial Investigation Unit in June this year.

First, he said, “Pakistani anti-terrorism agency counterparts abroad have been showing a lot of trust in our skills and abilities and none of our reports has so far been challenged by them.” Second, he added, any delay on the part of the Pakistan agencies in acquiring and relaying this information would have cost the NTFIU dearly for it was desperate to know the outcome of Pakistan’s inquiry report in order to determine whether or not to ask the UK authorities to declare a “red alert” in the country. Giving details, the official said the NTFIU, which reportedly plays a central role in informing and implementing British government policy on terrorist finance and is an integral part of the UK’s intelligence structure targeting terrorist finance, had asked Pakistani authorities to carry out a “highly discreet” inquiry on some money transfers.

According to the NTFIU, a huge amount of money had been transferred from Britain to Azad Kashmir for quake relief efforts two months after the quake caused devastation. “Neither the amount nor the purpose for which money was sent caused any concern in the British investigation unit,” said the senior official. “What raised alarm among British sleuths specialising in finances was the fact that the entire money was remitted to three individuals, not to any organisation or organisations involved in the relief work.”

The official, who refused to disclose the amount, however said that the entire transaction was in pound sterling. “It is up to you to deduce. What I can say is that it was a huge amount. Had it not been gone into the accounts of individual, nobody would have been bothered,” he said.
Click to expand...
 
Sleepy said:
Well as this countries been predominently xian for 1700 years, you'd have to go way way back beyond all records.
Click to expand...

Not quite. The cities have been almost completely Christian but there are many more Pagans amongst country dwellers. As far as the 'all records' comment is concerned, what do you think the religion of the man who conquered this country and made Britannia was? What do you think the religion of those he assimilated was?

You can check it out thanks to Roman record keeping.
 
cleanbluesky said:
Not quite. The cities have been almost completely Christian but there are many more Pagans amongst country dwellers. As far as the 'all records' comment is concerned, what do you think the religion of the man who conquered this country and made Britannia was? What do you think the religion of those he assimilated was?

You can check it out thanks to Roman record keeping.
Click to expand...
I think we've gone a tad off topic.
 
cleanbluesky said:
Not really. How do you feel about my comments?
Click to expand...

I just feel that anyone has the choice to live a certain lifestyle, just because it isn't the route you'd take doesn't devalue it.

cleanbluesky said:
The above sentence doesn't make sense. You say that I cannot claim he has turned his back, then suggested that he isn't following a 'certain culture' and that this is freedom.
Click to expand...

It does make sense because a adopting aspects from a different culture doesn't equate to turning your back on anything. What exactly is he turning his back on? The queen?

cleanbluesky said:
As a culture we are not sexist or exclusionist, and it seems that he has turned his back on that. I pity him for it.
Click to expand...

You can argue that but I don't believe that to be the case, you could say british culture is very yobish and sexist. Just because he has converted doesn't mean he automatically becomes some sort of wife beater....that's not how 'culture' works. Culture is very diverse and I doubt anyone exists who just follows one type of culture.
 
Wow some sense from someone in the government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4787119.stm

He said: "I have no doubt that there are many issues which incite people to loath government policies but not to strap explosives to themselves and go out and murder innocent people.

There is no way of rationalising that
Click to expand...

"I think it is very, very dangerous when people who call themselves community leaders make some assumption that somehow that there's a rational connection between these two things."
Click to expand...

:)
 
cleanbluesky said:
Apart from turning his back on his culture, choosing to associate with a rather dodgy group of people, we'll see when it comes to trial...
Click to expand...
There are plenty of people that have dodgy associates. That does not make them traitors or treasonous.

Can you be certain that he had any real culture to turn his back on? If so, what culture would that be? Am I a traitor if I turn my back on a culture of binge drinking and violence?

Surely, by your own declaration, whatever is discovered at a trial would be irrelevant.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom