Terror Plot Foiled

cleanbluesky said:
If I ask Charles Manson why he killed people, will he automatically tell me the truth or what he wants me to hear?

Surely as a student of psychology you are aware that sometimes (but not always) a motivated killer *wants* to tell the world why he did it?

After all, if one kills for political reasons then what use is that if no-one knows what those reasons are?
 
Visage said:
Find out their motives, and (if appropriate) remove them.

There are many ways of removing them. Also, there are many factors that combine to a person deciding to suicide bomb.

Are you advocating that we study their motivation in order to find out why they do it or to find out why they believe they do it?
 
Visage said:
But we dont know that to be true, do we? For all we know the (suspected) bombers could be protesting against evicted housemates being reintroduced to Big Brother ;)

Find out their motives, and (if appropriate) remove them.

If they the (suspected) bombers kill people for whatever cause they should be locked away I don't care if it is to do with Iraq,big brother or anything else.Several Islamic militant groups have stated that their aim is the creation of an Islamic world,so where do you think non-muslims will fit in to that little scheme then?
 
cleanbluesky said:
There are many ways of removing them. Also, there are many factors that combine to a person deciding to suicide bomb.

Are you advocating that we study their motivation in order to find out why they do it or to find out why they believe they do it?

Its not an either/or question. Both.

Anything we can do to avoid loss of life should be done.

Simply saying 'OMG they're islamonutters who are evil so lets invade syria/lebanon/iraq/afghanistan because that will stop them' does a disservice to us all.
 
Visage said:
Its not an either/or question. Both.

Anything we can do to avoid loss of life should be done.

Simply saying 'OMG they're islamonutters who are evil so lets invade syria/lebanon/iraq/afghanistan because that will stop them' does a disservice to us all.

I've never seen the prospective use of military action to be founded on what you suggest above. To me it has always been a tit-for-tat situation, with the advantage of showing that the West will not bow to the will of Islamic Nationalists.

There are three ways I can see to stop terrorism.

1) Conceed. Not an option, given how likely the demands would spread. It would likely be better to live with terrorism.
2) Total War on Islamic Nationalism. Not really an option given that the economy is tied in with oil and the prospective loss of life.
3) Systematically attempt to remove the ideology that fuels terrorism. Obviously there are many ways of doing this.

I do not wish the West to capitulate to Islamic Nationalists therefore I do not believe there is any weight in what suicide bombers say. They seem to think they have a legitimate case to kill civilians because of something we are supposed to have done to 'offend' them. I do not believe it is appropriate to be offended, nor that they have any military rights as civilians, or that they are military representatives
 
Among those arrested were a Muslim charity worker and a Heathrow Airport employee with an all-area access pass, according to Britain's Channel 4.

Two of those arrested are said to be converts to Islam - Abdul Waheed, previously known as Don Stewart-Whyte, and Ibrahim Savant, who changed his first name from Oliver. Sky News

Another [suspect] is a young mother who has been allowed to keep her baby with her in custody. Sky News
 
Sleepy said:
Two of those arrested are said to be converts to Islam - Abdul Waheed, previously known as Don Stewart-Whyte, and Ibrahim Savant, who changed his first name from Oliver. Sky News

I'd imagine that converts would be more likely to sccumb to extremism, if only to prove themselves to the group...
 
cleanbluesky said:
I'd imagine that converts would be more likely to sccumb to extremism, if only to prove themselves to the group...
Isn't that almost allways the case that recent converts are more fanatical than lifelong adherents.

OT BTW did you get my email? The server wouldn't cooperate
 
sachinbadiani said:
Up to 20 people arrested overnight for alledgedly plotting to blow up planes by using hand luggage.

The BBC are saying it would be bigger than 9/11. :eek:

This is scary news. I cannot believe what the world is coming to. :mad:
ye def i dont even live in your country and im scared for you guys
 
Sleepy said:
Isn't that almost allways the case that recent converts are more fanatical than lifelong adherents.

OT BTW did you get my email? The server wouldn't cooperate

I'm not at home, but I just checked my mobile and your mail is on the server will check it in after I get home... I can now also bug you about diving via e-mail :p
 
More from ABC who seem to have a gold plated source

British Penetrate Terror Cell

August 10, 2006 9:06 PM

Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report:

Operation Overt, the British called it, though they cracked it using covert means.

They had an undercover operative deep inside the group of at least 30 terrorists who had developed a simple, effective and potentially devastating plan to close the world's busiest airport, Heathrow, by carrying on small but deadly bombs concealed in sports drink containers and detonated by the flash of a disposable camera, intelligence and law enforcement officials told ABC News.

Even with an undercover operative on the inside, the British may not have known the full scope of the plot until it grew close to fruition, and authorities learned that the terrorists intended to assemble their bombs onboard at least six and as many as nine or 10 passenger jets that would depart from that airport. The goal was to deal out mass death and destruction and a crippling blow to Heathrow, a top al Qaeda target since September 11th.

The airlines targeted included United, Continental and American, and the cities to which flights would have headed included New York, Washington, Los Angeles, and Miami -- all spots popular with British tourists as well as with Americans returning from trips abroad, sources said.

The planes were not to be blown up as they arrived at the cities, but in mid flight.

When the arrests were made Thursday morning, the plotters had reached the point of identifying airlines and routes, but had not yet picked flight numbers. An arrest in Pakistan two days ago prompted authorities to begin to their round-up of suspects. It appears the arrest in Pakistan would have quickly tipped the suspected terrorists to the undercover probe, and perhaps caused them to disperse, so authorities moved quickly.

But five key members of the cell -- described by authorities as the ringleaders -- remain at large. The hunt for them, inside the U.K. and by intelligence and law enforcement authorities around the world, continues.

The intent by al Qaeda-inspired terrorists to destroy Heathrow's business and cripple England's economy dates back several years. One other plot has been thwarted by British authorities in the past. The idea of using multiple planes exploding in midair to create fear dates back further to the inspiration of master bomber Ramzi Yousef, who in 1994 first tried to knock multiple jets from the sky.

This latest plot, however, appears homegrown. The profile of the bombers -- young, longtime residents or citizens, inspired by al Qaeda and perhaps loosely linked to the old hierarchical terror group -- is the one that authorities have come to fear.
 
Something thats recently happened in America is that a terror cell was broken
Why is the mother of a terrorist working at the airport? And why does she have passenger lists and info on airport security? Why did she give them to her son?

Early this morning, I wrote about Ali Houssaiky and Osama Sobhi Abulhassan, the Dearbornistan Terror Boys.

They purchased at least 600 TracFones for the chips inside, which terrorists use as detonation devices in bombs. They had flight manifests and information about airport security checkpoints. They had $10,000 in cash and lied to police. They were working with a Dearborn man under FBI investigation. They were charged with Money Laundering to Aid Terrorism.
 
Sleepy said:
Among those arrested were a Muslim charity worker and a Heathrow Airport employee with an all-area access pass, according to Britain's Channel 4.

Two of those arrested are said to be converts to Islam - Abdul Waheed, previously known as Don Stewart-Whyte, and Ibrahim Savant, who changed his first name from Oliver. Sky News

Another [suspect] is a young mother who has been allowed to keep her baby with her in custody. Sky News

What I find interesting is that recent converts were trusted enough to be involved in such a scheme. I wouldn't have expected that. Maybe they are short on nutters after all.
 
Home Sec Briefing

We think the main suspects are in custody, though we cannot be sure so er on the side of safety.

International nature of these plots requires help from abroad, including Pakistan, (singled out)

Will soon discuss with EU ministers this affair and its ramifications.

Didn't day much more than be calm and patient, and thanked the agencies and the public.
 
Sumanji said:
So we can get intricate and detailed information about a bunch of trampy terrorists in caves, but we can't track allegedly thousands of tons of chemical making equipment and supplies... again, very disconcerting.

One may have a trail and one may not or not as good a one. Perhaps there was a better chain of informants to track suspects in caves? Better intelligence.

Russia, a more technically advanced country, seems to have lost track on a lot of it's old equipment and weapons decomissioned since the collapse of the Soviet Union. That weighs thousands of tons.

It is concerning though.

Oh, and best wishes to all VIRII. I would think that little VIRII will be a regular debater here as well. ;)
 
VIRII said:
What I find interesting is that recent converts were trusted enough to be involved in such a scheme.

Team America said:
Gary: My.. name is Hakmed. I'm a terrorist. Anybody... know of any terrorist attacks coming up soon? [the place falls silent and everyone looks at him. Three Muslims rise from a table and make their way to him]

Chechen Leader: Get out of here. Ve have put out a jihad on the infidels because they destroyed our lives. Vhat do you know about pain and sadness?

Gary: [recalls the incident that killed his brother] I was just a boy when the infidels came into my village in their Black Hawk helicopters. The infidels fired at the oil fields and they lit up like the eyes of Allah. Burning oil rained down from the sky and cooked everything it touched. I could only hide myself and cry as my goats were consumed by the fire of black liquid death. In the midst of the chaos, I could swear that I heard my goats... screaming for help. As quickly as they'd come the infidels were gone. It was on that day... I put a jihad on them. [one of his captors grins wide] And if you don't believe it, then you'd better kill me now, because I'll put a jihad on you too.

Chechen Leader: [notes that Gary's stare is fixed and didn't flinch during the story] I like you. You have balls. I like balls. All right, listen carefully: the WMDs are located in a secret bunker twenty yards east of this building.
 
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