And how many people have even ordered Tesla so far in the uk?
Guess we will find out more as and when cars get delivered or at least closer to delivery and more people post in the forum.
Tesla Model S
- Thread starter megakid
- Start date
And how many people have even ordered Tesla so far in the uk?
Guess we will find out more as and when cars get delivered or at least closer to delivery and more people post in the forum.
Probably about as many who have a nuclear power station on site.And how many people have even ordered Tesla so far in the uk?
What happens in a two-Tesla household... 300A 230V feed?
Sure, but requiring significant modifications to the electricity supply to get a fast charge will be a hurdle on the way of Tesla's entry in to the mainstream. Whether it's 230V or 400V or 8kV, if you need expensive modifications, it will put people off.
My local Nissan dealer has a 400V 50kW 125A charger for the Leaf and I guess you could plug any EV into it?
Probably cost you £10-20k for one of them at home though with the 3 Phase install but if I was serious about owning an EV (or multiple EVs) I would want one of them to keep them topped up.
Probably cost you £10-20k for one of them at home though with the 3 Phase install but if I was serious about owning an EV (or multiple EVs) I would want one of them to keep them topped up.
Soldato
You need to lay off Wiki Glaucus. Everything seems back garden one offs with your posts. Nothing that even identifies the real issues with real volume of these solutions... US quoting... Really where you need a dedicated power socket just for a tumble drier! The concept if big power draw on domestic items is something they are already geared up to deal with. Here in the UK it's TOTALLY different.
You are essential declaring everyone can pull copper phone lines out and route in fibre to their door by clicking their fingers.
You are essential declaring everyone can pull copper phone lines out and route in fibre to their door by clicking their fingers.
On a separate note, that is something the government and National Grid should be thinking about now, whether changing regs to allow higher amp feeds to private properties or higher voltage feeds (or something else). If EV is going to take off in this country a power supply that can charge up to two EV cars at once for each household will probably be needed.
Indeed. The issue with EVs is that you effectively need to dump the current petrol/diesel consumption for domestic vehicle use on to the grid, and that is a *lot* of kW. I'm no power expert but I'm pretty sure few areas of the network have that sort of spare capacity.
The dual charger is an optional component within the car itself, rather than anything to do with the wall socket. Although obviously you would want tma socket able to feed the dual chargers.
I would bet that none of them even come close
This thread has gone pretty stupid, 22KW chargers on a domestic 240v supply. Not possible in 90% of homes, and not possible in 100% of homes should any of your neighbours install the same. Its not just an upgrade of the supply feeds into the home, this kind of draw would require the upgrade of virtually every substation and transformer in the country. Where i live for example, we share a 200KVA 33KV/240v transformer between 10 of us!
Last edited:
Man of Honour
I'm pretty sure the 400V 32A 3 phase will be pretty hard to get installed cheaply in most homes, I think the majority of people will be able to manage run 230V 32A and get 7.4kW. You'd need to have a special property to get 400V 3 phase to the property.
I think Tesla are being a little sneaky with the 400V claims on their website, as it doesn't mention the costs or likelihood of getting that.
The biggest problem I have with EVs and PHEVs is the charge cable and the messiness of it. I hate filling up Diesel cars and getting oily stinky fingers, but with a plug-in vehicle, you get mucky hands as the cable sits on the floor and when it rains it just gets filth. I've yet to drive a plug-in that has a nice cable stowage facility that keeps you from getting filthy.
Bring on wireless charging (it is coming eventually), it'll be not as efficient, but I'd prefer to just park in a bay and leave it to do its business overnight than faff about with cables.
I think Tesla are being a little sneaky with the 400V claims on their website, as it doesn't mention the costs or likelihood of getting that.
The biggest problem I have with EVs and PHEVs is the charge cable and the messiness of it. I hate filling up Diesel cars and getting oily stinky fingers, but with a plug-in vehicle, you get mucky hands as the cable sits on the floor and when it rains it just gets filth. I've yet to drive a plug-in that has a nice cable stowage facility that keeps you from getting filthy.
Bring on wireless charging (it is coming eventually), it'll be not as efficient, but I'd prefer to just park in a bay and leave it to do its business overnight than faff about with cables.
Yep, they just slap another big charger under the rear seats.
Last edited:
Soldato
240v doesn't give you anything with out amps. And no they are not 400v. They are 240v
Hahaha do you actually understand the stuff you read?
EVs are a new technology breaking into the market and need passionate supporters to fight their cause. However, they don't need these people to twist half truths into facts or simply make things up to do so, it just makes them look silly.
The Formula E thread is full of instances of Glaucus getting carried away defending his passion for EVs and wild claims about what EVs can do by cherry picking headline stats from various different experimental technologies that aren't yet available, and quoting charger network plans and proposals as if they already exist.
If he put some more time and thought into his arguments rather than immediatly going on the attack with hastily made up facts I'm sure he'd have much more success making his case for EVs. His current approach, combined with his consistent posting of barely legible replies, is just making him look silly.
I'm all for being educated about new technology by someone passionate and knowledgeable about it. But I'm not a fan of being shouted at by some angry, missinformed fanboy.
Out of interest, what is a "typical" domestic supply in the US? If we have between 12-15 kW maximum (50A - 65A @ 240v) in the UK, do they have far more?
A completely uneducated guess would say their transmission losses are greater due to lower voltage (110v) and therefore requiring higher current but I recently read their supplies might be 240v and downed to 110v at each property?
Megakid, their system is delivered in a similar fashion to ours, with 2*120v legs with respect to neutral at 180deg to one-another. The difference is that their domestic circuits generally tap one leg with the other connected to earth giving a measurable voltage of 120v or half the incomer.
They are also able to have 240v at each home, as there is actually 240v available in a similar way that we have 240v
They are also able to have 240v at each home, as there is actually 240v available in a similar way that we have 240v
Soldato
The battery swap 'existed' only as long as needed to obtain some or other subsidy from the US taxpayer. That's how it appears anyway.
Reading their website, and hearing about the RV Guarantee and other things, there does appear to be a lot of 'smoke and mirrors' involved. Lots of headline statements with little detail behind them when you dig.
Had my test drive. Things to say:
Quiet. Very quiet when at low speeds. I've never driven a electric only vehicle before so that took some getting used to. Road noise encroached a little at higher speeds but still able to have a normal conversation at high speeds - no much different to other competitors in this area.
Quick, the instant torque delivery was outstanding to experience. Very 'wafty' as there's no rises and fall in power delivery throughout acceleration - from 5mph up to 80mph. The grip was impressive, a few occasions of lost traction when accelerating hard from small speeds over roughish ground.
Steering I kept on sport the whole drive except for car park driving on comfort - the difference was very noticeable. Going from a feel-less VW Polo style to a heavier far more sportier style - not sure there's a great deal of feel going on through the wheel even in the sportier setting but it definitely helps. We tested the air suspension levels which didn't do a great deal to the drive but allows the car to adjust to rougher/smoother roads.
The whole technology aspect really got my juices going - being a geek myself - the always-on internet, google maps integration, over-the-air updates to software and fundamental drivechain changes.
In traffic the car really excelled - they recently added a Coasting option to the settings - On or Off. Off meaning you allow the car to full regen-brake when your foot comes off the throttle - even the brake lights will come on when regen is recovering above a certain amount (very heavy engine braking) - this saves brakes consumables and increases range. The other mode is On which mimics normal car driving which will coast down to a stop with similar levels of engine braking to a normal exec car (My current V12 is actually closer to the full-regen coast mode than the other). Anyway, point being it makes it extremely easy to drive in traffic with the full-regen coast as the car will effectively brake when you come off the accelerator. It won't quite come to a stop but will go down to "idling in first gear" speeds before the actual brake pedal is needed. I quickly found myself feathering the throttle if I wanted to coast normally, releasing it to slow a lot and accelerating in the normal way...very intuitive.
Very spacious inside - boot front and back - despite what I've heard, I thought it was pretty well screwed together - I heard no rattles or squeaks (and trust me, you would definitely hear them!). The interior is dominated by the touch screen and you do feel something is missing when compared to Euro cars of the same class/price - the seats are very wide and "flat" - the leather on them looks pretty cheap (not stretched enough? floppy? something about it makes it look cheap...) - probably my least favourite bit of the car but the rest is very acceptable. The door handles also look rather cheap (imho) - they pop out and illuminate (nice) but look like they're chrome coated plastic like you get on cheap toys?
Overall I really enjoyed the car. I am tempted but they are just that little bit expensive (£84k for my spec'd up one
) - if the seats and door handles didn't stand out as "cheap" I would be 100% interested, as it is now, probably sitting on the fence. The running costs are essentially £450 a year servicing + £10 for fuel (if you dont charge it at home - no need if around london if you dont mind stopping at superchargers for 20 mins now and again) + tyres - in other words, for a 4.5s 0-60 car, ridiculously cheap. The only incentive the government gives to individuals is a £5,000 grant but that's included in the list price - most of the gov plans seem to target company cars which is where the significant savings come into play (something I won't be able to take advantage of in the foreseeable future).
Quiet. Very quiet when at low speeds. I've never driven a electric only vehicle before so that took some getting used to. Road noise encroached a little at higher speeds but still able to have a normal conversation at high speeds - no much different to other competitors in this area.
Quick, the instant torque delivery was outstanding to experience. Very 'wafty' as there's no rises and fall in power delivery throughout acceleration - from 5mph up to 80mph. The grip was impressive, a few occasions of lost traction when accelerating hard from small speeds over roughish ground.
Steering I kept on sport the whole drive except for car park driving on comfort - the difference was very noticeable. Going from a feel-less VW Polo style to a heavier far more sportier style - not sure there's a great deal of feel going on through the wheel even in the sportier setting but it definitely helps. We tested the air suspension levels which didn't do a great deal to the drive but allows the car to adjust to rougher/smoother roads.
The whole technology aspect really got my juices going - being a geek myself - the always-on internet, google maps integration, over-the-air updates to software and fundamental drivechain changes.
In traffic the car really excelled - they recently added a Coasting option to the settings - On or Off. Off meaning you allow the car to full regen-brake when your foot comes off the throttle - even the brake lights will come on when regen is recovering above a certain amount (very heavy engine braking) - this saves brakes consumables and increases range. The other mode is On which mimics normal car driving which will coast down to a stop with similar levels of engine braking to a normal exec car (My current V12 is actually closer to the full-regen coast mode than the other). Anyway, point being it makes it extremely easy to drive in traffic with the full-regen coast as the car will effectively brake when you come off the accelerator. It won't quite come to a stop but will go down to "idling in first gear" speeds before the actual brake pedal is needed. I quickly found myself feathering the throttle if I wanted to coast normally, releasing it to slow a lot and accelerating in the normal way...very intuitive.
Very spacious inside - boot front and back - despite what I've heard, I thought it was pretty well screwed together - I heard no rattles or squeaks (and trust me, you would definitely hear them!). The interior is dominated by the touch screen and you do feel something is missing when compared to Euro cars of the same class/price - the seats are very wide and "flat" - the leather on them looks pretty cheap (not stretched enough? floppy? something about it makes it look cheap...) - probably my least favourite bit of the car but the rest is very acceptable. The door handles also look rather cheap (imho) - they pop out and illuminate (nice) but look like they're chrome coated plastic like you get on cheap toys?
Overall I really enjoyed the car. I am tempted but they are just that little bit expensive (£84k for my spec'd up one
) - if the seats and door handles didn't stand out as "cheap" I would be 100% interested, as it is now, probably sitting on the fence. The running costs are essentially £450 a year servicing + £10 for fuel (if you dont charge it at home - no need if around london if you dont mind stopping at superchargers for 20 mins now and again) + tyres - in other words, for a 4.5s 0-60 car, ridiculously cheap. The only incentive the government gives to individuals is a £5,000 grant but that's included in the list price - most of the gov plans seem to target company cars which is where the significant savings come into play (something I won't be able to take advantage of in the foreseeable future).
Last edited:
Soldato
This may be heresy but why do you need to buy the specced up one? Isn't it over £10k more for the highest power one? ISTR thinking that if I were to go for one it'd be the middle bracket which has the range of the top one but lacks that extra touch of acceleration (but <5.5s 0-60 is hardly a slouch) and still also has things like the unlimited miles battery warranty and supercharger support as standard. That's a lot to spend on a little more power when you're that quick already.
Man of Honour
megakid, that pretty much sums up my experience of the car. I found the regen a little too aggressive, however you just need to learn to not fully lift off from the throttle to help adjust the decel of the car. It certainly lends itself to 1 pedal driving under most circumstances.
Agree on the door handles, and some of the door trim feels quite flimsy. The seats would be a lot nicer if they were a bit 'sportier' and had more support.
The difference in torque between the P85 and the base 85kWh cars is quite big (600Nm vs. 440Nm), you really do feel the difference and it's definitely worth it.
A fully specced Model S P85 can get over £100k. I've driven the plug-in version of the Porsche Panamera that's similarly priced, and I'd have the Tesla over it.
Agree on the door handles, and some of the door trim feels quite flimsy. The seats would be a lot nicer if they were a bit 'sportier' and had more support.
The difference in torque between the P85 and the base 85kWh cars is quite big (600Nm vs. 440Nm), you really do feel the difference and it's definitely worth it.
A fully specced Model S P85 can get over £100k. I've driven the plug-in version of the Porsche Panamera that's similarly priced, and I'd have the Tesla over it.
Last edited:
Soldato
Half tempted to look into the feasibility of a Model S as an Uber Black vehicle, half the expense is normally fuel and there are plenty of supercharger stations and free/dirt cheap stations to fuel up with. Wouldn't even need to make a profit but if you could cover say half the finance cost and get it down to $400 a month by doing doing 2 to 3 SB to LAX runs a month.
Seems it would make a great limo vehicle too, plenty of cargo space, comfy ride with the novelty factor and could add a WiFi hotspot as well to appeal to execs etc.
Seems it would make a great limo vehicle too, plenty of cargo space, comfy ride with the novelty factor and could add a WiFi hotspot as well to appeal to execs etc.