Texas air show crash

[Quartz]

I'm not going to link to videos, but at least two people are dead and having seen the videos I'll be very surprised if the death count isn't much higher: the crash did not look survivable to me and the B17 often carried passengers in airshows. The fuselage of the B17 separated from the wings. Grim.

RIP all.

 

[Haze]

News report says there were no deaths on ground, and the B17 normally has upto 4 crew

 

[Scania]

Just spoken with a family member who was there (I have extended family living in Texas) no survivors from either planes unfortunately, thankfully no injuries on the ground.

He described what appeared from his perspective to have been a level flight formation, and the P-63 (King Cobra) seemed to veer into the B-17’s flight path with the collision as a consequence.

Grim.

 

[a1ex2001]

News report says there were no deaths on ground, and the B17 normally has upto 4 crew

4 crew plus random hangers on, the rules in the US are nothing like as strict as over here. Absolutely horrific accident and doesn’t look even vaguely survivable.

 

[ci_newman]

The videos are grim watching, the reports I've seen were six deaths overall.

 

[Cleisthenes]

Looks horrendous

 

[Rroff]

4 crew plus random hangers on, the rules in the US are nothing like as strict as over here. Absolutely horrific accident and doesn’t look even vaguely survivable.

First thing I thought about was some of my YouTube subscriptions to channels with pilots as some of them ride planes like that as a spectator at air shows, one of them did a video from that same plane previously IIRC, and so on. Fortunately they all seem to be OK.

 

[Uther]

Just seen the video, absolutely horrendous, they didn't have a chance. Tragic.

 

[dlockers]

Folks have rightly said the fighter plane would have had zero idea what was about to happen due to the pitch of the **** pit etc... Tragic. Hopefully the bomber pilots were mush before they even clicked what was happening.

 

[Uther]

Folks have rightly said the fighter plane would have had zero idea what was about to happen due to the pitch of the **** pit etc... Tragic. Hopefully the bomber pilots were mush before they even clicked what was happening.

It would have been very quick judging by their altitude. Probably just time to say 'WT...'

 

[Mysterae_]

It looks very deliberate to me, with the speed and angle of the smaller plane and no attempt by it to avoid the collision.

 

[Zenduri]

It looks very deliberate to me, with the speed and angle of the smaller plane and no attempt by it to avoid the collision.

Put the tin foil hat away ffs.

If you look at some other angles there were bombers and fighters flying together and the P63 was in banked turn and couldnt see the B17 as it was directly under the P63 in its blind spot. Not saying it wasnt ****** flying and spatial awareness but you can see how the P63 pilot didnt see the B17

Ive taken some SFW stills from diff videos and you can see from the directions of the aircraft (ive highlighted in yellow on the left part)and the angle of the P63 on the right side you can see how the P63 didnt see the B17 until it was too late and he was too close to avoid it

Spoiler: Safe For Work Stills

 

[Uther]

It looks very deliberate to me, with the speed and angle of the smaller plane and no attempt by it to avoid the collision.

No.

 

[Mysterae_]

Put the tin foil hat away ffs.

If you look at some other angles there were bombers and fighters flying together and the P63 was in banked turn and couldnt see the B17 as it was directly under the P63 in its blind spot. Not saying it wasnt ****** flying and spatial awareness but you can see how the P63 pilot didnt see the B17

Tin foil hat? Is that your go-to?

These are meant to be professional pilots, aware of everything in the sky and have pre-planned flightpaths. I'd think the NTSB aren't ruling out a deliberate act at this stage. I could be wrong, and if I am wrong then I wouldn't be going to an airshow in the US if that's how **** they operate.

RIP to all those involved, regardless of the reason.

 

[Zenduri]

Tin foil hat? Is that your go-to?

These are meant to be professional pilots, aware of everything in the sky and have pre-planned flightpaths. I'd think the NTSB aren't ruling out a deliberate act at this stage. I could be wrong, and if I am wrong then I wouldn't be going to an airshow in the US if that's how **** they operate.

RIP to all those involved, regardless of the reason.

No its not my go to but you suggesting this was deliberate is so ridiculous hence my comment.

 

[Rroff]

It looks very deliberate to me, with the speed and angle of the smaller plane and no attempt by it to avoid the collision.

Visibility in the air can be difficult - nothing like flying with 3rd person view, etc. in games and the closing speed and when other aircraft first become visible by sight in some situations can be extremely short timescale from first person compared to what it looks like from the ground.

Though there does seem to be some resistance to fitting modern avionics to some of these older aircraft, which would help to avoid these kind of situations, which IMO is irresponsible when sharing the air with other traffic.

 

[ianh]

Lots of discussion online from actual warbird pilots, some of whom knew the pilots involved and all are saying virtually the same thing - the P63 was following his leader during a banked turn (so looking forward and up) and completely unaware of the exact position of the B-17 who would've been "below" him, hidden by his engine/airframe during his turn as the P63 is notorious for poor cocpit visibility. However that should have been mitigated for by lots of planning.

In the end this'll come down to simple human error mixed with a lack of planning by the organisation i.e. the inner fighter aircraft loop should be a different height than the outer loop of bombers with strict adherence to height monitoring, there should have been a practice held before (was one planned but cancelled), there should have been ground/air comms from a ground observer specifically looking for aircraft separation etc etc, all the usual stuff which should (but doesn't always) prevent something like this happening. Sadly mid-air collisions/bumps really aren't all that rare at US airshows but they're rarely this devastating.

 

[Scania]

Lots of discussion online from actual warbird pilots, some of whom knew the pilots involved and all are saying virtually the same thing - the P63 was following his leader during a banked turn (so looking forward and up) and completely unaware of the exact position of the B-17 who would've been "below" him, hidden by his engine/airframe during his turn as the P63 is notorious for poor cocpit visibility. However that should have been mitigated for by lots of planning.

In the end this'll come down to simple human error mixed with a lack of planning by the organisation i.e. the inner fighter aircraft loop should be a different height than the outer loop of bombers with strict adherence to height monitoring, there should have been a practice held before (was one planned but cancelled), there should have been ground/air comms from a ground observer specifically looking for aircraft separation etc etc, all the usual stuff which should (but doesn't always) prevent something like this happening. Sadly mid-air collisions/bumps really aren't all that rare at US airshows but they're rarely this devastating.

Interesting.

It’s certainly a very different perspective on what happened compared to my relatives eye witness account which says it all about how things appear to be rather than how they actually happen.

Clearly he (my relative, who is neither a pilot nor flight simulator player) was on the ground watching relatively casually up until the collision then he’s trying to recollect his memory of what happened whilst no doubt still being in shock, I can understand his take being different from those comments you’ve read.

(Any links to said discussions? - I’d be interested to have a read)

Having flown many WWII era warbirds in flight simulators, I can absolutely understand how in the scenario you mention his vision of the B-17 would have been obscured by the engine & airframe.

Wholeheartedly agree this seems a tragic accident and as you say certainty not helped by the apparent poor planning of the flight loops by the organisers.

 

[chaparral]

I was reading about it this morning
there was meant to of been 5 people in one the planes and a single person in the other plane.

Then i kind of got linked off to the germany air display crash in 1988 where 70 people died

 

[Zefan]

Just awful. As well as the human cost (which is on a totally different scale, obviously) there are only a few B17s still flying.