Thanks Ken!

[Muffin`]

I dont know. Where do you think it go's?

Social Security & Tax Credits - £136.6 billion
Health - £81.5 billion
Education - £63.3 billion
Police & Public Order - £28.7 billion
Defence - £28.2 billion
Government Debt - £24.5 billion
Overseas Aid - £4.1 billion

If you want a more sensible answer.

As Dolph has already said, lying about why a person is being taxed and then throwing it at pointless admin staff in the Pulic sector or failing services instead of dealing with the problem is theiving.

 

[GeX]

You think thats daft?

If I wish to drive into London in my BMW 530i Sport with a manual gearbox, I must pay £25 a day.

If PeterNem wishes to drive into London in his BMW 530i Sport with an Automatic gearbox, which produces something like 30g/km of C02 more than me, he must pay only £8 a day.

Why? Becuase although otherwise utterly identical, his car was produced before March 31st 2001. This means he pays less road tax as well.

HOW GREAT.

that's the cut off point, a line has to be drawn somewhere.. don't like it? Buy a newer car

 

[Simon]

What always makes me 'laugh' is that the CO2 emissions (that have massive implications on the cost of running a car) are based on unrealistic drive cycles.

 

[Simon]

that's the cut off point, a line has to be drawn somewhere.. don't like it? Buy a newer car

Er, an older car is cheaper

 

[Muffin`]

Yes, thats because we live in a market economy instead of a communist regime.

They use market forces to urge us in certain directions, instead of just slapping down the law and saying we must stick to it.

The same way they forced health warning on Tobacco products, enforced more stringent health and safety on cars - brakes, air bags etc.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

The same way they forced health warning on Tobacco products, enforced more stringent health and safety on cars - brakes, air bags etc.

All valid examples of how the government has been mistreating the people they serve.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The same way they forced health warning on Tobacco products, enforced more stringent health and safety on cars - brakes, air bags etc.

No its not the same way at all - it can be argued that the forced safety warnings etc were examples of Command Control policies yet taxation is Market Bassed - you can still buy a Range Rover and drive it to London, but you must pay more.

You cannot buy a pack of ciggys from a UK shop without a health warning.

 

[roadie]

Did anyone actually see Ken on Channel 4 News last night? Basically, he wants to send a message to the car makers about producing more fuel efficient vehicles and he's back to his socialist roots. However, he is keen on improving the public transport and getting more people to cycle, which is fair enough.

As a cyclist in London, the most polluting vehicles from experience are taxis, buses, lorries and vans. Not only are these the noisiest but they are the ones that emit the noxious fumes. These vehicles should be regulated much more highly. Also, why are taxis allowed to use bus lanes when most of them only ever have one person in them?

 

[GeX]

Er, an older car is cheaper

i know, all i'm saying is that this is a change that occured 7 years ago - when legislation changes it has to have a cut off point, and is 'unfair' as it is, there has to be a point where it changes. To whine about it is pointless. A friend of mine who used to have a smart car, it was a late 2000 model, and his parents bought a late 2001 model. He paid £110 a year tax, they paid somethig like £35. Yeah it sucks, but there has to be a point where it changes.

 

[GeX]

However, he is keen on improving the public transport and getting more people to cycle, which is fair enough.

two words;

BENDY BUS

 

[Jez]

Very bad news for me, i drive into london a fair bit and mine will be hit by the £25 charge. I dont pay it but its yet another reason for the company to complain about my car.

Whats worse is that i cannot imagine a scenario where id get a car which doesnt get hit by the £25 charge, unless i bought a much smaller engined pre 2001 model.

Bah humbug

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's like those C02 efficiency tables - if you buy a car in the yellow or green zone, or £8 congestion charge zone, then its rubbish.

 

[Hamish]

I have to say I agree with Ken, London is already far too busy and polluted. There is little excuse not to use public transport in London as it's usually cheaper and quicker than the equivalent car journey. Most people who drive the cars in the £25 bracket can either afford it and don't care or are driving for their work who will pay it. If there is no option but for someone to drive to london there are many park and ride schemes and if you really must travel by car get a cab.

Also you must remember that the Congestion Zone is only the very central area of london which no-one in their right mind would want to drive round and it is not in operation during the evenings or weekends.

 

[Jez]

I have to say I agree with Ken, London is already far too busy and polluted. There is little excuse not to use public transport in London as it's usually cheaper and quicker than the equivalent car journey. Most people who drive the cars in the £25 bracket can either afford it and don't care or are driving for their work who will pay it. If there is no option but for someone to drive to london there are many park and ride schemes and if you really must travel by car get a cab.

Also you must remember that the Congestion Zone is only the very central area of london which no-one in their right mind would want to drive round and it is not in operation during the evenings or weekends.

What about people like me though, i will reguarly drive into london to a clients office, park for half an hour in their carpark while i pick up a load of kit, then take it to other places for installation or relocation (we are relocating a lot of kit from central to out of london datacentres). How do you suggest i do that without a car? Its nonesense that my half an hour just inside the zone should cost £25 :/

 

[[TW]Fox]

I have to say I agree with Ken

Are you communist as well? Do you have a grudge against people who chose to own nice cars as well?

 

[Von Luck]

..

 

[Mr Jack]

Are you communist as well? Do you have a grudge against people who chose to own nice cars as well?

Yes, because that's communism

I have nothing against people having nice cars; I have quite a lot against the many and needless ways we're screwing up our planet. Being rich shouldn't give you the right to pollute. Just as we limit CO, particulate, hyrdocarbon and NOx emissions from vehicles we should limit CO2 emissions. Cars that aren't built to a sufficently high standard simply should be sold.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

What about people like me though, i will reguarly drive into london to a clients office, park for half an hour in their carpark while i pick up a load of kit, then take it to other places for installation or relocation (we are relocating a lot of kit from central to out of london datacentres). How do you suggest i do that without a car? Its nonesense that my half an hour just inside the zone should cost £25 :/

Then perhaps your work are right about your car then.

I'm sure you could fit whatever go's into your merc into one of these.

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/4sale/00163-ASTRA-VAN-LPG.htm

 

[[TW]Fox]

Great news - was planning on getting an A3 TDIe or Focus Econetic as my next car, so now I'll avoid the congestion charge as well as using less fuel and paying lower tax. I'll be saving a mint!

But you'll be driving a totally rubbish car! Have you SEEN the stats on the A3 TDIe? It's absolutely awful! Audi's low C02 efforts are embarrasingly rubbish.

The BMW 118d develops the same C02 was the A3 TDIe, is also congestion charge exempt (IIRC) yet has proper power figures and proper performance figures.

Why not get a car with lower emissions then?

Why should he?

 

[GeX]

there is little excuse not to use public transport in London as it's usually cheaper and quicker than the equivalent car journey

here is a good enough reason, you've already paid tax on the car when you bought it, you've then paid tax to drive it on the road, tax or any servicing or work the car has needed, you've paid for fuel that has been taxed and then taxed again. After paying out so much, why the hell would i want to sit on a bus in god knows what with a load of chavs, i've paid for my car, where i can sit on a comfy seat, with my music on, with the air at a temp i've chosen and after all this - the bus isn't even going to take me to exactly where i wanted to go.