*** The 2011 Gym Rats Thread ***

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Poor bugger. There are a lot of exercises which help for the wrists strengthening - have you tried them? Wrist rollers, pronated/suppinated flexion etc... Sounds as though they're rather damaged - shame as it limits you to what you can do. Doin't worry about EZ curls, you don't need them anyway :p
 
How do people rate front squats? Never done them before, so tempted to give it a try. Are there any tips or important facts I should be aware of........?

Prepare for pain.

You might need to do specific stretching to allow you to use a 'clean grip'. I use a cross armed grip as I lack the flexability at the moment. Much more quad dominant, especially if you raise your heels slightly. Also a lot more core activation. On the whole they're tougher but feel much more effective to me but you'll have to sacrifice load. Great to throw in as a finisher and to add some variety.

Take a look at zercher squats too.
 
Poor bugger. There are a lot of exercises which help for the wrists strengthening - have you tried them? Wrist rollers, pronated/suppinated flexion etc... Sounds as though they're rather damaged - shame as it limits you to what you can do. Doin't worry about EZ curls, you don't need them anyway :p

i have tried believe me, hand grippers, wrist curls, etc. they are very weak. my legs are the exact opposite, i reckon i could leg press a hummer if i needed to change a wheel lol.

right now my squat has been going up 10-15kg per week. my bench has went down 10kg after a slight shoulder injury. my deadlift has also shot up. so i just need to start working my upper back more.

i haven't done curls in a long time, but i might start incorporating them, me and my dad have a friendly wager on, who will look better in June. The only thing he beats me in is biceps, his are huge, i mean complete bicep monkey. i doubt i will ever get near his size in 6 months, but i will try.
 
I'd never done front squats until a month or two ago. And now I'm addicted to them. Absolutely love them, they hurt, a lot. But the feeling you get in your quads after is so addictive
 
Front squats to add variation are key to training IMO. Glad to see there's a movement for it.

PS if they are weak surely training them will help? Forearms and wrists take years and years to develop and grow so unless your doctor/physio has told you otherwise I'd keep training them.

Glad to see you're deadlifting and squatting though - bench press isn't that important anyway ;)
 
right ive been delaying it all day, im off for a workout.

squats and some leg curls.

then major back session.

hopefully by wednesday, i will have a new routine sorted, suited to my needs.
 
Partials are good for explosive power, sprinters, high jumpers and people following a more plyometeric sort of training with a specific goal. I wouldn't do them for part of my training, but they can add power to parts of your squat. I agree to get the bottom end of your power you have to train deep and parallel,, however, even just getting the feel of the bar and starting to move the bar to 45 degrees initially and dropping deeper and deeper is a good way of stretching the fascias as you get deeper.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much part of the "it ain't a squat if it ain't deep" brigade, but partials, if training for a specific goal do have their place. Furthermore, I think I'd rather get a feel for 200+ kg doing an 80% rep - gauge how I'm feeling, then go deep.

I don't doubt you're a fan of going deep, you don't get to the total you have by going easy on yourself.

I do however, almost completely disagree with your first paragraph ;)

Partial squats are of zero use to sprinters*, trained in an explosive fashion or otherwise. Sprinting is primarily a posterior chain movement, and training the squat above parallel reduces load on the hamstring and glute in favour of the quad (see table here http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...g_performance_repair/get_your_butt_in_gear_ii ). Sprinters get far more value from full squats, because of the full range of muscles activated, and deadlift variations (regular deadlift, deficit deads, RDL/SLDL).

But then let's assume the partial squat has some sports specificity, for example for sports that utilise the vertical jump. The argument here is that the ROM of the vertical jump is similar to a partial squat, therefore it allows for maximum carryover. This is the logical conclusion, but isn't actually completely true.

I'm not sure of the source of this, but anyway...:
"Along these same lines many people will ask, ?Since during a vertical jump one only descends into a [partial] squat position, then why should they do loaded squats with a full range of motion going past parallel?? Again, realize the purpose of strength training is to improve the general strength of the muscles involved. The fact is that a full deep squat is better at strengthening all the muscles involved in the vertical jump, despite the fact that one is capable of using much more weight in a [partial] squat. A full squat fully activates the muscles of the quadriceps and also strongly engages the hamstrings, glutes, and even
calves. Not only does this build strength, but it also keeps the lower body in
developmental balance and helps prevent knee injuries and muscle strains. A [partial] squat doesn?t strengthen the muscles of the posterior chain nearly as well and also puts a lot of stress on the tendons of the knee. However, there is a time when the [partial] squat can be effective. That is after a base of strength has been developed. The partial squat can then be used for short periods for further enhance strength development. If I could throw out one piece of advice to every young athlete in the world it would be,

?Do squats and do them full and deep!?"

Full squats de-load the knee, making them far safer, by shifting the some of the forces onto the posterior chain.

From Charles Poliquin:
"Forget about the more specific quarter squats and half squats. Many strength coaches falsely believe that quarter squats have more transfer to improving the vertical jump, because the load is greater and the range of motion resembles the motion to preload for jumping. Actually the opposite is true, A high vertical jump is highly correlated to a full range squat not to a quarter squat. Why? Because full range squats strengthen the VMO, while quarter squats and half squats do not do it. A strong VMO prevents the knees from buckling inwards during pre-loads and landings."

...and this is echoed in many other places. So even with a greater degree of sports specificity, their usefulness is limited (e.g. higher loads on the quads) and even then, disputed in favour of just doing full squats or other exercises.

The point here is that in certain circumstances it's beneficial to increase the strength of the leg muscles. The best way of doing this is with the standard assortment of back squats/box squats for overall development, front squats for quad emphasis and RDL/SLDL/regular deads for hamstrings. It's important not to neglect leg drive.

Incidentally, for sports that require speed in some way, you need to be training for absolute strength AND rate of force generation, but separately. As for generally training for explosiveness and rate of force generation, there are far better exercises than partial squats, and it could be argued that doing full squats explosively is better anyway.

From reading around, partials seem to be most common where people (including coaches) just want to see bigger numbers without a good reason, or who seem to tolerate partials as long as the weights are progressing. That's not aimed at anyone here, just an observation of certain american sports coaches more than anything else.


I think I'm misunderstanding your point about fascia stretching. Why would stretching your fascia be useful when squatting? Do you mean for general flexibility? Either way, I think there are better methods for flexibility and fascia stretching out there.


As for testing a heavy weight with an 80% rep, maybe that's a matter of personal preference, but I don't see the point as the loading is so different, AND there should always be a way to safely dump the weight or get a spot if something goes wrong. There is little difference between a 1RM 200kg squat and a 1RM 150kg squat provided you've trained properly and you're ready for it.

This is more for others reading this who aren't sure about partial squats above parallel. Bottom line, you probably shouldn't be doing them.

Pros:
- can use heavier loads than full squats
- loads the quads more
- may have more functional carry over

Cons:
- unbalanced loading of the leg muscles
- places extra strain on the knee
- very debatable carry over in terms of sports specificity
- does not compare favourably to full squats in most regards
- inferior posterior chain development and hip drive

"counter pros" ;)
- supra maximal loads have limited application, only for strength training and only as part of a balanced program. Even then, you won't find too many powerlifters etc. using them
- just do front squats :)

*compared to just doing full squats


Partials are great, i do them for strength. However, I don't just do the top partial, I will also do a bottom of the rep partial. On occasion I will do the partial against a bar, stopping it go higher than I want.

Have played with negative partials and also only positive partials (gotta love cages for things like this :)

How would these fit into a routine? I have some idea for deadlifts and bench, but no clue for squats. Is this with supramaximal loads at the top and submaximal loads at the bottom? Would you be doing them for dealing with sticking points or just generally? I've not done any partials in my powerlifting training yet though, but when progression slows down I'll be looking to incorporate them.
 
Good post. We'll just have to agree to disagree on there being a use for partials :) Though I may well be wrong about the sprinting, I was just thinking of examples that I had seen in my previous gym (county rugby players, sprinters and high jumpers). So as you said very specific training for a specific use.

Good point about being safer on the knee to go deep - couldn't agree more.
 
Anyone here tried zercher squats? I have been playing around with front squats as my primary leg exercise for the last two weeks. I expected the zercher to be easier than a regular front squat because it is held lower, but my god it was hard on my core! I only did 3x8 at 80kg and that was enough. Didn't really hit my legs much though.
 
Glad to see you're deadlifting and squatting though - bench press isn't that important anyway ;)

I understand the jokes around bench press and was reading in the other BB thread about you saying that you don't get heavy on bench anymore, if your deadlifts/squats carry on increasing further is it important for your to bench to also increase to keep everything in "proportion" or does it not matter at the point your at?
 
To keep everything in proportion I wouldn't need to be doing 1RMs :)

Sorry, it was a bit of an "in" joke, I just don't rate bench as an "important" exercise - probably because I'm not very good at it, and because I've had enough shoulder injuries to last me a life time!

However, if you're after a big chest, DBs, flies, and dips will benefit you just as well. In fact supersetting flat bench on a modest weight with some modest flies works well. Then there are varying levels of incline of course.

I'd love to be stronger in the chest, but at the moment, I'm more worried about getting my squat and deadlift to a decent weight. I'm hugely underperforming for what I know I'm capable of. Once I get my DL and Squat up to a decent level, I'll start worrying about chest again. :)

I'm not really after size, though that does come with the territory, I'm after power/strength and generally lift weights to feel great! There's something neanderthal about moving big weights around a room!
 
I actually don't enjoy benching at all thats why I ask, I'm doing stronglifts so bench is a requirement but have had to use dumbells instead of barbells for the benching part as neither my uni or home gym have power racks only squat racks and I tend to exercise early in the morning so not really anyone about to spot me on the bench - plus I don't like having to rely on other people!.
 
Icecold - yep mainly for sticking points. I wouldn't stick it into a routine as such, just as and when I feel I am struggling to complete a rep due to a weak part.

Many powerlifters do partials for bench, using boards and even bands to relieve weight (as well as extra load).
 
To make it more challenging, you can try reducing the negative proportion of the lift to 4s, and keep the positive explosive. Don't get me wrong, for overall strength, and to be "complete" bench press, deadlifts and squats are important. However there are other chest exercises which work just as well for developing the chest. Bench press is a very specific movement, and owing to the fact that the bar is rigid (necessarily :p), unless you get the form spot on (and bench form is harder than people realise) you may not be doing yourself any favours.

How you getting on with the bench proportion of your lifting? Struggling because of the DBs or is it ok?
 
The benching side is my biggest let down, for comparison, I weigh around 66KG, deadlift 105 for 3x5 and squat 100kg for 3x5, and db bench press with 27.5Kg db's but the large increment gaps making it increasingly hard. I also recognise how difficult the bench is technically when reading articles by Dave Tate/Rippetoe regarding it and all the verbal ques needed for it when starting out. I'm doing weighted dip's to help with the fact I'm only dumbell pressing and not barbell pressing.
 
DBs with dips are a good combo. Just concentrate on the form, and isolating the muscle and feeling the muscles engage when you push the DBs up. Just be careful of your shoulder and RC/AC joints! :)
 
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