The (Ada) Lovelace architecture Thread.

[Purgatory]

Zero problems with Toxic Extreme pulling 400w, [email protected] gobbling up as much as it can and running with an RM850x.

Yes I heard same from other users I still think it was an issue on the Seasonic PSUS that had the over current protection set too low, but still the 6900xt can spike a lot higher than a 3090.

 

[JediFragger]

Just giving the benefit of my experience, which is no problems in that regard

 

[Poneros]

With the cost of living crisis and the environmental impact, this ludicrous power draw is even more insane. AMD are rumoured to have equal or better performance to Nvidia in the next generation while using significantly less power. I would go that way if I felt I had to upgrade.

I'll believe it when I see it... There is even 6900xt cards that recommend 850w-1000watt PSU. Also the spikes of the 6900xt are worse than a 3090.

AMD is on TSMC 7nm and can spike worse than 3090 and Nvidia is on a worse node at samsung 8nm (that is comparable to TSMC 10nm), next time they will both be on 6nm or 5nm and you will see the reality (power use will be silly for both AMD and Nvidia, it is now a brute force war and that means silly power use and lots of heat now from your pc).

There's no doubt that AMD is giving Nvidia an absolute spanking in terms of perf/w, but you have to look across the whole range to see the full picture. Granted, if you turn RT on then that goes out the window so ymmv in how to assess that. One thing that's clear though is that Nvidia's pushed themselves with Ampere as far as they could in terms of power consumption and there's no room left, not without a proper re-architecting, meanwhile AMD's smooth sailing with RDNA, at least for another cycle. Ironically Nvidia's now in the position AMD used to be in with GCN at the end of its cycle, but oh my how the turn tables.

For proper power-related measurements and tests you have to dig through igorLAB's archive, he does it best and has a few articles on it, like:

https://www.igorslab.de/en/reichen-...3070-gegen-ein-be-quit-pure-power-11-500-w-2/

 

[Dave2150]

There's no doubt that AMD is giving Nvidia an absolute spanking in terms of perf/w, but you have to look across the whole range to see the full picture. Granted, if you turn RT on then that goes out the window so ymmv in how to assess that. One thing that's clear though is that Nvidia's pushed themselves with Ampere as far as they could in terms of power consumption and there's no room left, not without a proper re-architecting, meanwhile AMD's smooth sailing with RDNA, at least for another cycle. Ironically Nvidia's now in the position AMD used to be in with GCN at the end of its cycle, but oh my how the turn tables.

For proper power-related measurements and tests you have to dig through igorLAB's archive, he does it best and has a few articles on it, like:

https://www.igorslab.de/en/reichen-...3070-gegen-ein-be-quit-pure-power-11-500-w-2/

Nvidia will still outsell AMD significantly, as they have the trust of their massive userbase in terms of driver stability and reliability.

AMD are improving though - the last catastrophic driver issues were for the rx5700 black screen issues, so they've had one generation of plain sailing at least. Once they have maybe 3 more generations without huge driver issues, more people will consider them.

 

[JediFragger]

Once they have maybe 3 more generations without huge driver issues, more people will consider them.

Honestly? I don't think it's recoverable from, there will always be a stigma around AMD and drivers in regard to what happened even with the 5700-series never mind before. If they have a clear run for a decade then *maybe* they can, but it's going to take a long time for some people to see them as reliable in the driver regard (even though nvidia are far from perfect!).

 

[HRL]

^^^ By that logic Intel don’t stand a chance!

 

[Poneros]

Nvidia will still outsell AMD significantly, as they have the trust of their massive userbase in terms of driver stability and reliability.

AMD are improving though - the last catastrophic driver issues were for the rx5700 black screen issues, so they've had one generation of plain sailing at least. Once they have maybe 3 more generations without huge driver issues, more people will consider them.

The driver issues are a myth, I've been using Radeon for 22 years not just for my own system but family & friends also and had on occasion minor issues at best, but it's not like Nvidia's been flawless on that front. Afaik there's been no data to show the supposed driver issues, only the rare anecdotal reports on r/AMD (which half the time come back to "oh I thought it was the GPU drivers but I actually had bad memory/mobo/unstable OCs etc").

You're right that Nvidia will have no issue outselling AMD though, but that's more momentum based & that Nvidia's marketing team is honestly at the highest levels one can be. The RTX re-branding alone has been monumental in furthering their dominance for mindshare but they had always been knocking it out of the park anyway.

 

[Journey]

Does anyone really think the top end card is going to be <600w TBP?

Reckon you could work out raster efficiency vs my old RX 480 8GB which runs at 90w, so seven of those for one 4090 (or whatever it might be called), I mean will it be less PPW or more. Should they just make 7 way SLI.

 

[Rroff]

The driver issues are a myth, I've been using Radeon for 22 years not just for my own system but family & friends also and had on occasion minor issues at best, but it's not like Nvidia's been flawless on that front. Afaik there's been no data to show the supposed driver issues, only the rare anecdotal reports on r/AMD (which half the time come back to "oh I thought it was the GPU drivers but I actually had bad memory/mobo/unstable OCs etc").

Rubbish.

AMD haven't had the driver issues of old since 2010 but before that it certainly wasn't a myth - you've got a poor memory if you don't remember for example all the time games were released with non-trivial issues on AMD/ATI which went unresolved for months - for example the Far Cry 2 shadow issues which were only fixed once and for all in the January 2010 release. Or the hardware accelerated 2D surface (and related cursor*) bugs which plagued a lot of software.

AMD driver issues since 2010 have been more of the nature of nVidia ones where it tends to be more specific problems and/or affect certain GPU models rather than a wider problem or just a "poor" driver with lots of things not quite right in general. I think the only time nVidia drivers have been equivalent to that was a period during the 195 branch.

Though "GPU" driver problems in general often lead back to bad memory or other hardware instability due to the driver being one of the most real time intensive parts of the system so where underlying problems tend to manifest first.


* For instance https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6vtuh5/amd_and_its_corrupt_cursor_bug_what_worked_for_me/

 

[Poneros]

Rubbish.

AMD haven't had the driver issues of old since 2010 but before that it certainly wasn't a myth - you've got a poor memory if you don't remember for example all the time games were released with non-trivial issues on AMD/ATI which went unresolved for months - for example the Far Cry 2 shadow issues which were only fixed once and for all in the January 2010 release. Or the hardware accelerated 2D surface (and related cursor*) bugs which plagued a lot of software.

AMD driver issues since 2010 have been more of the nature of nVidia ones where it tends to be more specific problems and/or affect certain GPU models rather than a wider problem or just a "poor" driver with lots of things not quite right in general. I think the only time nVidia drivers have been equivalent to that was a period during the 195 branch.

Though "GPU" driver problems in general often lead back to bad memory or other hardware instability due to the driver being one of the most real time intensive parts of the system so where underlying problems tend to manifest first.


* For instance https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6vtuh5/amd_and_its_corrupt_cursor_bug_what_worked_for_me/

That you can point out some example way back when, okay, but doesn't detract from what my experience was. Obviously I hadn't played every game released then. In 2010 I was still playing WoW, heavy into LoL, and dreaming of DotA 2, plus whatever I ended up still playing SP (rarer back then), and if we're talking launch of FC2 in 2008 then it was pretty much just WoW + randoms (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc.). The only problem I had back then was my 4850 dying within a year then I had my sole Nvidia card (gotten as RMA) a GTS 250 (iirc) which got replaced in 2011 with a Radeon 7950, and has been a red card ever since. So I can't comment on every game in the world but every game I wanted to play I could play with 0 problems any time I had a Radeon card (which is since 3dfx got acquired pretty much). Besides, you wanna tell me if I look back into Nvidia's drivers past I will find a spotless record with nothing like what you're talking about as it pertains to Radeon? I find that very doubtful. All irrelevant anyway, this ain't 2010 anymore and the discussion in this topic isn't about drivers from back in the day but more recent releases like RDNA 1.

 

[Rroff]

That you can point out some example way back when, okay, but doesn't detract from what my experience was. Obviously I hadn't played every game released then. In 2010 I was still playing WoW, heavy into LoL, and dreaming of DotA 2, plus whatever I ended up still playing SP (rarer back then), and if we're talking launch of FC2 in 2008 then it was pretty much just WoW + randoms (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc.). The only problem I had back then was my 4850 dying within a year then I had my sole Nvidia card (gotten as RMA) a GTS 250 (iirc) which got replaced in 2011 with a Radeon 7950, and has been a red card ever since. So I can't comment on every game in the world but every game I wanted to play I could play with 0 problems any time I had a Radeon card (which is since 3dfx got acquired pretty much). Besides, you wanna tell me if I look back into Nvidia's drivers past I will find a spotless record with nothing like what you're talking about as it pertains to Radeon? I find that very doubtful. All irrelevant anyway, this ain't 2010 anymore and the discussion in this topic isn't about drivers from back in the day but more recent releases like RDNA 1.

You were the one calling AMD/ATI driver issues a myth... just because you could play every game you wanted to play without problem, after saying you didn't really play that wide a range of games, doesn't mean there weren't issues for other people.

No one is talking about nVidia having a spotless record - but having problems doesn't mean all problems are equivalent... but hopefully you knew that and just being overly defensive of AMD...

 

[Poneros]

You were the one calling AMD/ATI driver issues a myth... just because you could play every game you wanted to play without problem, after saying you didn't really play that wide a range of games, doesn't mean there weren't issues for other people.

No one is talking about nVidia having a spotless record - but having problems doesn't mean all problems are equivalent... but hopefully you knew that and just being overly defensive of AMD...

Oh no, I did play a very wide range of games of all types in fact, but that just isn't going to encompass every single game ever made & most time for those years was spent on stuff like WoW and some other MP titles. I'm sure there has been an issue with some game at some point in time for Radeon cards and that took a while to resolve, but what I'm fighting against is making it seem like it's a systemic issue across the board with all sorts of games and not just some rare example, and to reiterate - talking about more recent past especially not necessarily since 2002, but if we do go back that far I have no issue backing up my record and saying it's been 100s of games (from indie to AAA, from city builders to RPGs to multiplayer titles of all kinds) and I have had exactly 0 issues like what you've described and that even includes integrated Radeon graphics when I had an A6 5400K at that time and that was used on my back-home PC and spent its time quite happily running DX:HR, Rome 2 TW, Path of Exile and the various mobas that were characteristic of that period, plus whatever AA & indies I tried and forgot.

And tbh I wouldn't have a problem saying I've been lucky and maybe issues were more widespread but I see too many examples where the individuals complaining about these issues end up having something else wrong with their setup but blaming the GPU drivers wrongly simply because that's the narrative that was set. I don't care about AMD in this case, it's about the truth - even in such an ultimately meaningless discussion.

 

[Rroff]

Oh no, I did play a very wide range of games of all types in fact, but that just isn't going to encompass every single game ever made & most time for those years was spent on stuff like WoW and some other MP titles. I'm sure there has been an issue with some game at some point in time for Radeon cards and that took a while to resolve, but what I'm fighting against is making it seem like it's a systemic issue across the board with all sorts of games and not just some rare example, and to reiterate - talking about more recent past especially not necessarily since 2002, but if we do go back that far I have no issue backing up my record and saying it's been 100s of games (from indie to AAA, from city builders to RPGs to multiplayer titles of all kinds) and I have had exactly 0 issues like what you've described and that even includes integrated Radeon graphics when I had an A6 5400K at that time and that was used on my back-home PC and spent its time quite happily running DX:HR, Rome 2 TW, Path of Exile and the various mobas that were characteristic of that period, plus whatever AA & indies I tried and forgot.

And tbh I wouldn't have a problem saying I've been lucky and maybe issues were more widespread but I see too many examples where the individuals complaining about these issues end up having something else wrong with their setup but blaming the GPU drivers wrongly simply because that's the narrative that was set. I don't care about AMD in this case, it's about the truth - even in such an ultimately meaningless discussion.

You seem desperate i.e. inference of rare, to turn something into a myth which was far from a myth. I'll be the first one to say since 2010 this is something of the past but it is not the truth that it wasn't a significant and real problem for AMD/ATI in the past.

 

[edgedemon]

Nm

 

[edgedemon]

But you are talking over 10 yrs ago. I'm still sadly rocking a pair of R290's in X-fire from 2011. They were my first AMD cards and I've never had a driver issue so for me AMD are rock solid. AMD drivers are not a problem for me
10 yrs is an absolute age in IT tech, it is not relevant to go back that far and dis a company, everyone has a bad patch,, it is how they recover that counts.
It's a bit like saying AMD were c**p for the floating point bug in their CPU' back in the day....

 

[Rroff]

But you are talking over 10 yrs ago. I'm still sadly rocking a pair of R290's in X-fire from 2011. They were my first AMD cards and I've never had a driver issue so for me AMD are rock solid. AMD drivers are not a problem for me
10 yrs is an absolute age in IT tech, it is not relevant to go back that far and dis a company, everyone has a bad patch,, it is how they recover that counts.
It's a bit like saying AMD were c**p for the floating point bug in their CPU' back in the day....

I was addressing the notion that AMD/ATI past driver issues were a myth.

Granted I was working in role where I'd encounter problems back then - which changes the perception a bit - but writing off historical AMD/ATI driver problems as a myth simply isn't the truth at all - even if some people had a problem free experience within the scope of what they were doing.

 

[SmokSmog]

Maybe AD102 144SM can reach 100TF after OC, it only needs 2715mhz to reach it.

 

[JediFragger]

I'm still sadly rocking a pair of R290's in X-fire from 2011.

Serious question, are you now deaf?

 

[Grim5]

Maybe AD102 144SM can reach 100TF after OC, it only needs 2715mhz to reach it.

Not sure what more likely that or AMD's 3.8ghz that's required to reach its target after AMD cut the core counts by 20%