The Atkins Diet

[Chong Warrior]

CW have you had your account hacked?! ....

...snip...

This is a very complicated subject and one you need to look at the bigger picture, I'm sure you'll agree? I originally typed out a lengthy reply to your post but on reading back I could see where you'd probably go from there and so on... Argueing little points and over simplifying things is pointless. I only posted a few views and look how the thread is going already

http://forum.myprotein.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4894 - A great thread on the Anabolic diet
http://forum.myprotein.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4849&highlight=paleo - A good read

There are many other threads such as this one http://forum.myprotein.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8534&highlight=paleo , I could go on and bury you with reading, I've been at it for a while! LOL

This is a decent quick read on the anabolic diet that puts some good points out but he advocates a big carb blow out every weekend so a slightly different approach. http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_69eat

Read even some of those and then tell me you still think the same

 

[MTA99]

...SNIP...

I'm sorry big man but still don't agree with your original post (which i quoted).

I've not read every thread in depth but i've looked at them all and on the MP forums at least i don't think i've got anything to add that hasn't already been said by other members.

As for the T-Nation link...

Why does it have to be red meat? No explanation
"Eat fat to lose fat" by avoiding "famine" response, that's why we eat 5-6times a day. Doesn't give evidence to back it up.
After the weekend carb load you'll feel "pumped", why? Presumably because that's your body's preferred method of fuelling?
"Prozac, the drug of choice for today's fat housewife!" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoxetine Nausea and lack of appetite are common (initial) side effects. Its a little misleading to blame the US obesity problem on Prozac.

Which brings me onto the final point...

All through the article the author makes reference to the obesity problem in the states and the proliferation of the high carb diet. Again i find this a little misleading. IMHO i think its the proliferation of the North American *portion size* that has caused them (and us) so many problems.

I'm not suggesting that the results you have seen aren't real, I make most my adjustments to my diet through carb manipulation, I just think the underlying reasoning is dodgy.

 

[Runbalk]

I have to agree that the T-nation article sounded awfully pseudo-scientific. Sounds well thought out, sounds logical - but where's the actual science? Even if any of it works, the reasoning behind it reeks of speculation and inference.

Simply philosophising about these things, like saying that cavemen ate this way, and that this is what nature intended dadadada, isn't really a sound alternative to good scientific research. Also we shouldn't only be concerned about results pertaining to the gym, we should be concerned about health and safety as well.

 

[Chong Warrior]

I'm sorry big man but still don't agree with your original post (which i quoted).

We'll have to agree to disagree mate because I've no desire to argue it for a number of reasons. It goes against so much of what's considered the norm and it causes lots of disagreement and rightly so.

As for the T-Nation article, I gave that as it's a basic and simplistic article that's a decent introduction to this kind of dieting, nothing more, nothing less. I don't agree with every single thing in it either for what it's worth.... especially the weekly carb blow outs

 

[MTA99]

Read even some of those and then tell me you still think the same

We'll have to agree to disagree mate......

On the basis of the evidence you presented then yes, i agree, we do indeed disagree. You'll have to try harder than that to convince me

 

[Jeffstar]

That T-nation article is laughable. "eat like a man"

Monday through Friday

Eat a diet consisting of 60% fat, 35% protein, and only 5% carbs. You'll get the fat and protein mainly from steak, hamburger, eggs, and fish. Turkey, chicken, and tuna are all okay, but the password here is red meat. You'll also eat full-fat cheeses, pepperoni, sausage, and certain nuts. The key is to generally avoid carbohydrates, eating only around 30 grams a day.

More rubbish for the gullible folks

 

[Participant]

It's working so far folks. Watch already feels looser. Another few weeks to go then it's lot's of calories and carbs and heavy weights.

 

[kmistry]

It's working so far folks. Watch already feels looser. Another few weeks to go then it's lot's of calories and carbs and heavy weights.

Awesome thanks for this, thinking of getting on this diet when I get back from Ibiza and am starting to follow basic principles. So, do you still take Whey after a workout, and I assume its not with oats?

 

[Chong Warrior]

It's working so far folks. Watch already feels looser. Another few weeks to go then it's lot's of calories and carbs and heavy weights.

Are you in ketosis? How many carbs a day are you eating? Are you exercising at all?

I think the Atkins diet takes the basics of an excellent, sound diet and makes a bit of a hash of it if you follow it to the letter. It goes too far the other way, I reckon there's a better balance to be struck.

 

[kmistry]

Are you in ketosis? How many carbs a day are you eating? Are you exercising at all?

I think the Atkins diet takes the basics of an excellent, sound diet and makes a bit of a hash of it if you follow it to the letter. It goes too far the other way, I reckon there's a better balance to be struck.

Im gonna try a Ketosis diet, I understand that you are eating this way CW and its working well for you? Any recommendations? and how many carbs in terms of grams (and what type) do you eat a day?

 

[Participant]

So, do you still take Whey after a workout, and I assume its not with oats?

I'm not working out in earnest until I've finished the one month low carb period. Trying to workout properly on carbs is a bit of a tricky proposition I believe. I've never yet taken extra protein but when I start lifting I certainly will do so.

Are you in ketosis? How many carbs a day are you eating? Are you exercising at all?

I think the Atkins diet takes the basics of an excellent, sound diet and makes a bit of a hash of it if you follow it to the letter. It goes too far the other way, I reckon there's a better balance to be struck.

I presume I'm in ketosis - the only carbs I've had in three days have been through full fat milk in tea and any contained in vegetables such as broccoli.

Carbs per day equate to no more than 20g if I'm doing my sums right.

In terms of excercise I'm doing an hours jogging every other evening and some light dumbbell excercises on the other nights, as well as cycling to work and going for a walk at lunchtime. I also swim on Sundays.

I'm sure you are right about the balance. I have been considering why there has to be a high fat content - can there not be low carb AND low fat; that would work even better I think. So I've tried to decrease the bacon and sausages etc. Typical daily diet at the moment is:

- brekkie - omelette cooked in olive oil and a mug of coffee and full fat milk (apparently cream is ideal but hey)
- mid-morning - some cold turkey goujons seasoned with salt pepper and curry spices
- lunch - tuna salad
- afternoon snack - 2 Herta frankfurters
- dinner - grilled chicken, steak, pork or turkey with stir-fried vegetables

 

[Chong Warrior]

I presume I'm in ketosis - the only carbs I've had in three days have been through full fat milk in tea and any contained in vegetables such as broccoli.

I very much doubt you're in ketosis yet, infact I'd wager that you aren't. Just before you enter Ketosis for first time you'll feel very strange, your mind will be foggy, feel lethargic, etc. Hard to explain but you'll know when it happens. Then it's like coming out the other end of a dark tunnel and you feel fantastic

I'm sure you are right about the balance. I have been considering why there has to be a high fat content - can there not be low carb AND low fat; that would work even better I think.

No don't do that. Don't have protein as your highest source of calories, make sure fat is your number one.

So I've tried to decrease the bacon and sausages etc.

Lots of sausages are high in carbs, don't know why people think they're low carb. They're also full of crap, avoid them. There are some decent ones but I think they're expensive. Bacon is full of nitrates, which are believed to be linked to cancer. This is another thing high fat, red meat have got the blame for! It's the additives not the meat or fat!!

Typical daily diet at the moment is:

- brekkie - omelette cooked in olive oil and a mug of coffee and full fat milk (apparently cream is ideal but hey)
- mid-morning - some cold turkey goujons seasoned with salt pepper and curry spices
- lunch - tuna salad
- afternoon snack - 2 Herta frankfurters
- dinner - grilled chicken, steak, pork or turkey with stir-fried vegetables

You've already picked up on the milk - cream. Depending on how many drinks you have a day it shouldn't make too much difference.
Tuna salad is just protein, I'd swap that for some oily fish like mackerel. Also get some olive oil on the salad and add something like avocado to it.
Herta frankfurters are terrible, true garbage. Change this for something else. Chicken legs and some peanuts?

 

[Participant]

Appreciate the advice Chong Warrior. Tomorrow I'm going to roast a packet of chicken drumsticks and swap them out with the Hertas. Will look at some different fish also.

Cheers.

 

[Ian]

I very much doubt you're in ketosis yet, infact I'd wager that you aren't. Just before you enter Ketosis for first time you'll feel very strange, your mind will be foggy, feel lethargic, etc. Hard to explain but you'll know when it happens. Then it's like coming out the other end of a dark tunnel and you feel fantastic

After two weeks i still havent felt that

 

[Chong Warrior]

After two weeks i still havent felt that

You don't think you've entered Ketosis after 2 weeks? Have you done this kind of thing before? I've found I no longer suffer now my body is more used to being a fat burner, the first time was VERY noticable, I didn't feel right at all lol

If not then maybe you're eating too many carbs? I mean sneaky carbs you don't realize you're eating like sausage or black pudding contain lots for example.

How much have you lost in these 2 weeks?

 

[Ian]

well ive no idea if ive entered Ketosis at all. Just saying that ive felt no ill effects whatsoever. I do have sausages, but they are proper butchers ones so id imagine they are just meat + herbs. Im just eating eggs, cheese, mackerel, mayo, steak, lamb chops, roast chicken thighs + skin + funky herb coating, sausages, lettuce, cauli, spring onion, cucumber etc. Is carbs in the veg though, maybe thats throwing it off

In the three weeks ive been doing it i have lost around 11lbs.

 

[Chong Warrior]

well ive no idea if ive entered Ketosis at all. Just saying that ive felt no ill effects whatsoever. I do have sausages, but they are proper butchers ones so id imagine they are just meat + herbs. Im just eating eggs, cheese, mackerel, mayo, steak, lamb chops, roast chicken thighs + skin + funky herb coating, sausages, lettuce, cauli, spring onion, cucumber etc. Is carbs in the veg though, maybe thats throwing it off

In the three weeks ive been doing it i have lost around 11lbs.

Wow, that's some serious loss, you must me well happy with that?

You seem to have taken to the diet very well. I remember you saying you weren't suffering headaches or getting thirsty either?

I get a headache after 2 weeks if I drop my carbs too low. I get very thirsty aswell as carbs allow your body to hold more water, so obviously low carbs can lead to hydration problems when working hard.

Have you had another carb blow out since we last spoke? Big chinese meal?

 

[Ian]

Wow, that's some serious loss, you must me well happy with that?

You seem to have taken to the diet very well. I remember you saying you weren't suffering headaches or getting thirsty either?

I get a headache after 2 weeks if I drop my carbs too low. I get very thirsty aswell as carbs allow your body to hold more water, so obviously low carbs can lead to hydration problems when working hard.

Have you had another carb blow out since we last spoke? Big chinese meal?

Extremely happy. Carbs are the work of the devil

Iad read a few things about the possible side effects of it (which is kind of what put me off trying something similar a few years ago) but its as if nothing has changed. Same energy levels, no headaches, no carb cravings, no extra thirstyness and no bad breath Im kinda curious about the distinct lack of side effects though. Is it a good sign or a bad sign?

Since that first carb saturday and the resulting weight gain ive stayed off it completely. Just have a keebab now with lots of salad and no pitta. Am tempted to try a chinese again, just not sure its worth it

 

[Chong Warrior]

Extremely happy. Carbs are the work of the devil

....Am tempted to try a chinese again, just not sure its worth it

LOL, it certainly feels that way when you first start this diet and the fat melts off you doesn't it?

Too many carbs are definately bad, though some carbs are essential. Just be wary to get the balance right and don't mix carbs (especially simple sugary ones) with fats (especially saturated). So no chips with tomato sauce, or fatty chinese with white rice and sweet sauces!!

This is the thing with chinese food, the sauces can be loaded with sugars and the white rice acts like sugar aswell. Even so I had a big chinese last night, peking duck with pancakes, special fried rice, hot sweet chilli chicken and deep fried crispy beef! You only live once

Anyway, keep it up!

 

[Participant]

Last night I woke up at around 4am and my mouth felt like a gorilla's armpit. Today I have a headache. These must be the side effects people talk about!!

Around 3 years ago I tried this diet for two weeks and never got any such symptoms. Hopefully I can get past this stage and carry on for the remaining three weeks.

My watch (which is my easiest way to determine how fat I am) has started sliding around my wrist of its own accord already and I've only been on it five days. Fingers crossed I can stick at it; hunger certainly isn't a problem as with some diets. Watching people eat kettle chips and drink beer is purgatory however!