The Cyclops

[FoxEye]

Surely if you could see the future, you'd change it and it would no longer be the future. So the whole power is pointless.

On the contrary, that's the scenario in which the power is most useful because it would save your life.

The usual scenario is that you can't do anything to stop it happening. Which requires the assumption that nobody can do anything about anything, ever. That everything in the universe, including all of us, is just a sim being run by some higher power. That we don't have any minds at all, we're just programmed with the delusion that we do. Even then, it's a rather silly idea. Say, for example, you know that you'll be killed in a freak accident in a specific location in Central Park, New York at 14:39 on 14/08/2027 when a dead bird falls out of the sky and hits you in exactly the wrong way. Would you willingly go there and be killed in that way?

The OP's question just said that you'd know when, not how.

There are pros and cons to both options. A lot will depend on whether you think you're living your best life now. If you think you are, you'd have little reason to choose to know the date of your death. It could only lead to anxiety and depression.

If you think you've got nothing to lose, and perhaps might start living a better life if you knew you had a short time left, you might choose to know (the date).

Personally I don't think I would want to know.

 

[Angilion]

The OP's question just said that you'd know when, not how. [..]

Which isn't much of a difference as it still requires the same assumption I referred to before because it's still based on the idea that the future is completely predetermined.

 

[FoxEye]

Which isn't much of a difference as it still requires the same assumption I referred to before because it's still based on the idea that the future is completely predetermined.

Maybe it is... our consciousness obeys the laws of physics, right? Because our consciousness is tied to our physical brain and our physical brain is bound by physical reality.

If our thoughts are just atoms and electrons.. then they are nothing beyond the laws of physics.

Then there is only one path we can tread. Do the laws of physics allow for unpredictability? If you *precisely* know the position, energy/state of all matter+energy in the universe, and all laws of physics/reality... maybe you can see the future. Because maybe there is no unpredictability. When you know the precise laws of physics and the precise state of all matter.

Maybe there is only one outcome possible. In which case everything from the dawn of time to now to all eternity is, not so much "laid out", as 100% predictable. And there is only one possible outcome for all of us.

 

[Angilion]

Maybe it is... our consciousness obeys the laws of physics, right? Because our consciousness is tied to our physical brain and our physical brain is bound by physical reality.

If our thoughts are just atoms and electrons.. then they are nothing beyond the laws of physics.

Then there is only one path we can tread. Do the laws of physics allow for unpredictability? If you *precisely* know the position, energy/state of all matter+energy in the universe, and all laws of physics/reality... maybe you can see the future. Because maybe there is no unpredictability. When you know the precise laws of physics and the precise state of all matter.

Maybe there is only one outcome possible. In which case everything from the dawn of time to now to all eternity is, not so much "laid out", as 100% predictable. And there is only one possible outcome for all of us.

Maybe. If it is, I hope I never find out.

Maybe it's not possible to "*precisely* know the position, energy/state of all matter+energy in the universe, and all laws of physics/reality". Current understanding of physics is that it isn't possible, with the most famous example being the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Maybe a complete understanding of how the universe works is beyond human capability. Maybe consciousness actually exists rather than merely being a delusion of a complex collection of matter and energy.

I think it's time for a bad science joke!

Heisenberg is pulled over by the police for speeding. The police officer asks the traditional question - "Do you know how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replies "No, but I knew exactly where I was".

 

[moon man]

I have Logond run

Maybe it is... our consciousness obeys the laws of physics, right? Because our consciousness is tied to our physical brain and our physical brain is bound by physical reality.

If our thoughts are just atoms and electrons.. then they are nothing beyond the laws of physics.

Then there is only one path we can tread. Do the laws of physics allow for unpredictability? If you *precisely* know the position, energy/state of all matter+energy in the universe, and all laws of physics/reality... maybe you can see the future. Because maybe there is no unpredictability. When you know the precise laws of physics and the precise state of all matter.

Maybe there is only one outcome possible. In which case everything from the dawn of time to now to all eternity is, not so much "laid out", as 100% predictable. And there is only one possible outcome for all of us.

Reminds me of block universe theory, everything that has ever happened or is going to happen is already contained in the block universe, also if the past or the future don't exist then only now exists what is now exactly, I struggle with this edit/ so the world just dissappears, evaporates behind us but as we have a brain to eye delay we are seeing a world that doesn't exist ect puts down the bong.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

As the myth says, they have the ability to see their own death.

Given a choice, would you prefer to know when you are going to die? Or not?

We already have a pretty good idea three score years and ten and all that, maybe a bit more if you're lucky or less if you're not. Or obviously abuse yourself like smoking, obesity etc. Its one of downsides of being sentient whereas animals live in the here and now and have no concept of future or even the eventuality their own demise.

/philosophical musings.

 

[glenimp617]

Considering we are living in a simulation, I'm waiting for quantum computers so I can hack the mainframe.

I fully intend to live forever. Every system has a backdoor. I just need to find it.

 

[SPG]

I had a very vivid dream, as my future self/spirit, that I had burned to death around aged 60. Sounds like a horrible way to go. I hope it's not true.

As for would I like to know when I'm going to die? Maybe. I would possibly live a fuller life until then.

How I'm going to die? No. I wouldn't want to know that. Given that a lot of this is pre-ordained, and we don't have a say in it, we can't change it. But I'd rather not know.

Actually burning is not so bad, yes you get to endure the pain prior to the main functions of the body shut down nervous system etc so a good chunk of passing will be quite pleasant and painless and you will be in state of dreaming unconscious bliss. Hope that helps.

 

[Kelt]

Aye

 

[glenimp617]

Actually burning is not so bad, yes you get to endure the pain prior to the main functions of the body shut down nervous system etc so a good chunk of passing will be quite pleasant and painless and you will be in state of dreaming unconscious bliss. Hope that helps.

Unless you've seen the isis video which was doing the rounds a few years ago. You'd soon be changing your mind.

 

[Lysander]

Actually burning is not so bad, yes you get to endure the pain prior to the main functions of the body shut down nervous system etc so a good chunk of passing will be quite pleasant and painless and you will be in state of dreaming unconscious bliss. Hope that helps.

Isn't this just a myth? I thought burning to death was excruciatingly painful.

 

[SPG]

The moment of passing is always painless, unless your brain is somehow smashed into a pulp in which case you wouldn't know about it.

So the moral of the story is hit a tree at 100mph on a motorbike headfirst.

 

[SPG]

Isn't this just a myth? I thought burning to death was excruciatingly painful.

I didn't say its not painful, I said the moment of passing into death is painless. Not quite the same.

But yes its going to hurt like a ***** **** for a few minutes for sure, but then no need to worry about it.

 

[R.P.L]

I'm pretty sure that burning to death has a very painful bit before the wonderful moment of passing, so to say it's 'not so bad' might be pushing it a bit

I would say that any death that is relatively quick (i.e. over in a minute or two) is probably preferable though unless you actually live a healthy life and then die in your sleep (not sure how often that happens and CBA to Google it, but I suspect not that often), so the burning thing is not at the top of my list but it's certainly not at the bottom either. I'm counting dying from terminal illness as including all the (possibly) years of suffering that lead up to it.

Would I want to know when I'm going to die? I don't think so, but to be honest there's no way that someone could tell me and I'd believe them, so in that sense I could never actually 'know' anyway.

 

[Theophany]

Every system has a backdoor. I just need to find it.

Are you saying that you would smash the back doors in?

 

[glenimp617]

Are you saying that you would smash the back doors in?

Hell Yeah

 

[dowie]

If our thoughts are just atoms and electrons.. then they are nothing beyond the laws of physics.

Then there is only one path we can tread. Do the laws of physics allow for unpredictability? If you *precisely* know the position, energy/state of all matter+energy in the universe, and all laws of physics/reality... maybe you can see the future. Because maybe there is no unpredictability. When you know the precise laws of physics and the precise state of all matter.

That's quite an old school idea based on Newtonian mechanics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork_universe

It's kinda moot, even in a deterministic system things can be highly sensitive so you can't feasibly predict the future - see the butterfly effect, chaos theory etc...

Though that isn't even considering say quantum mechanics as per Anglion's post:

Maybe it's not possible to "*precisely* know the position, energy/state of all matter+energy in the universe, and all laws of physics/reality". Current understanding of physics is that it isn't possible, with the most famous example being the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

 

[FoxEye]

That's quite an old school idea based on Newtonian mechanics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork_universe

It's kinda moot, even in a deterministic system things can be highly sensitive so you can't feasibly predict the future - see the butterfly effect, chaos theory etc...

Though that isn't even considering say quantum mechanics as per Anglion's post:

I didn't say "we" could.

Just that the sum total of the laws of reality may not leave any room for unpredictable outcomes.

That is to say, that with full and total knowledge of all the laws of reality, it is possible that the outcome of all things may be predicted.

Fairly hard (read: impossible) to conclusively disprove that idea when we absolutely know for a fact that we don't know all the laws of reality

e: To put it another way, what we view today as unpredictable events may actually be predictable. Just not by us.

But that we can't personally predict those events does not mean that there is uncertainty / unpredictability in the universe. Even if we are never able to predict those events.

The idea is simply that unpredictable events may be predictable.

Or that there is only one outcome to all events.

 

[R.P.L]

That's quite an old school idea based on Newtonian mechanics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork_universe

It's kinda moot, even in a deterministic system things can be highly sensitive so you can't feasibly predict the future - see the butterfly effect, chaos theory etc...

Though that isn't even considering say quantum mechanics as per Anglion's post:

You say that as if the concept has been roundly accepted as false, which isn't the case. Also, the question of being able to accurately predict the future is separate in a way, because even if we knew that the universe was deterministic you'd still need a big old computer to simulate it accurately.

As with many things, we're some way from being able to prove or disprove determinism and free will, but that doesn't stop people from debating it as if they know for sure

 

[dowie]

I didn't say "we" could.

I know, I didn't say that you said we could, I'm pointing out that it is kinda moot regardless - supposing it were possible in theory, a system required to actually calculate the position of everything in the universe and how that will change in future likely couldn't exist within the same universe, even a deterministic system could be incredibly hard to predict.

You say that as if the concept has been roundly accepted as false

I didn't make that claim though. Though currently there isn't any deterministic explanation for say radioactive decay for example - why one atom of uranium and not another? Or the behaviour of various particles at a quantum level.