The downside of progress?

Scania

Scania

Scania

Caporegime
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On the road....
Just a thought that crossed my mind after a comment yesterday by my Brother in law on his new E60 520d M-Sport BMW.

Whilst trying to research the "Efficient Dynamics" economy features of the car (which I can't find any mention of in the handbook:confused:) he said that he was'nt that bothered to read up on it or anything else for that matter as he "Simply sets everything to Auto and forgets about it"

Meaning that the lights come on & turn off automatically, as does the aircon, the reverse sensors, wipers etc etc.

Whilst this is all well & good, it underlines my view that technology (especially Sat-Navs but, thats another thread!) is removing a lot of the basics from driving.

He need not look at a map as the car tells him where to go, nor bother about ambient conditions as ,again, the car takes this away from him.

If he so chooses, he can reverse the car and not bother to look around him or use his mirrors as that "great" i-Drive will tell him (supposedly) when he's about to run over that child......

Sure, we can't stop progress, but I feel that progress is slowly eating away at a lot of basics of driving, people are un-surprisingly more inclined to simply operate the vehicle these days rather than actually drive it if you see what I mean.

Thank god he at least got a manual so he has at least gearchanges to concentrate on!

Thoughts?

Very impressed with the e60 520d btw, I was not expecting it to feel as lively as it did, the M-Sport package seems to really sharpen it up , its handling was very very good.

Certainly, imo, as well built as an e39 if not better (awaits Fox's opinion!) unlike an e39 however, you'd struggle to jump in it & drive off without a good browse through that phone book like handbook!

A few pics of it - typical brand new company car - its filthy! :D

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:)
 
The 'basics' it takes away from you are all boring crap. It's all good stuff.

And if only your comment about the build quality as true :(
 
Blatant look at my brother in laws BMW post.

J/K :p

I'm not a fan of all these gadgets myself. For modern city man who lives on the motorway whilst driving they can only be a good thing when used properly, and will increace safety (although a subjective point).

I've been abroad once in my life, which means I get my jollies but loading my hot hatch with camping gear, dogs and the other half then we hoon around Scotlands countryside getting lost. IWe decide we're walking up that big mountain over there, wherever that is, then when we get the map out and figure out how we get back to camp.

That's how I love driving, but that's only for 2 weeks of the year. Every month or so I go on a drive with or without the owners where I might need a sat nav but my daily drive is the same 16 mile round trip. Most of these gadgets would be wasted on me as a driver but I do see the benefit to people who see driving as a chore (shock horror!).
 
Things like having to manually change the speed of your wipers or judge the exact length of your car when reversing parking are hardly high points of driving that enthusiasts appreciated, are they?

Rain sensing wipers etc are one of those things which you dont realise how useful they are until you've had them, then you wonder why anyone would ever not want them..
 
Sat Nav if used efficiently is an excellent addition. I never had it in previous cars as a fitted option but since using my old TomTom I would not be without it now as it does destress a journey not least if I have to navigate into a city centre I don't know that well. Reversing sensors are a nice to have but having relied on them on occasions only to find flaws in their ability I have mixed feelings about them. Multi-story car parks with overhangs are not best suited to them. This flaw usually shows itself with a bang and a jarring of the neck!

AC is good as it keeps me nicely chilled and my drinks cool. Though summer is something I only read about these days it is again something I would not wish to do without. The Eco stuff I am not convinced by having rented a BMW in Italy with it on. The engine off and all sub systems off feature was, to me at least, a pain the backside.
 
[TW]Fox;12685003 said:
And if only your comment about the build quality as true :(
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Don't forget that I have regular access to an e39 Fox, If I thought the build was poor, why would I not say so?

Dup said:
Blatant look at my brother in laws BMW post.

J/K :p
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I took the pics with this place in mind - his comment gave me the reason to post them! :D
 
I had a 520d on loan in the past, the engine was very rattly and non smooth (if you get what I mean)

I think the more stuff there is, the more stuff there is to go wrong,á la swirl flaps.
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Don't forget that I have regular access to an e39 Fox, If I thought the build was poor, why would I not say so?
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Becuase you value winding me up far too much ;)

The E60 build quality is not as good as that in the E39, and many say the build in the E39 was even a shade lower than that of the E34. It's a trend across the whole BMW range - quality is marginally lower in the current models than it was in the previous generation. It's annoying, because it makes potential upgrades more difficult - I had a 530d Sport for a day and loved the car and although it was well built it's just a shame the quality level is not on a par. Dissapointing, infact, as there is no real reason for it.
 
I think the build quality is pretty much on par with previous BMW's but I think the quality of the materials and finish is somewhat off.
 
Yea, I was reffering to the things you touch in the interior etc.

The natural upgrade path would be an ED 530i M Sport but the fact the quality doesnt feel as good makes me think whats the point, might as well get a marginally quicker 3 Series or something :(
 
Even Audi interiors have gone down hill too of late. I think both the A5 and A6 are weak as is the R8. At first look they may have a pleasing asthetic but dig a little deeper and I think they are lacking. The quality of the materials and general texture of 'stuff' doesnt feel as good as it did in previous generations at the time. The A8 still seems a tour de force but I suspect that too will change with the next model.
 
[TW]Fox;12685074 said:
Yea, I was reffering to the things you touch in the interior etc.

The natural upgrade path would be an ED 530i M Sport but the fact the quality doesnt feel as good makes me think whats the point, might as well get a marginally quicker 3 Series or something :(
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just being curious here, not questionning you

but is the E60 poorer than the E39 in terms of quality of materials used, or is it a fit/finish problem with squeaky interiors ?
 
[TW]Fox;12685057 said:
Becuase you value winding me up far too much ;)
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A sincere point. ;) - Not in this case, honest!

[TW]Fox;12685057 said:
The E60 build quality is not as good as that in the E39, and many say the build in the E39 was even a shade lower than that of the E34. It's a trend across the whole BMW range - quality is marginally lower in the current models than it was in the previous generation. It's annoying, because it makes potential upgrades more difficult - I had a 530d Sport for a day and loved the car and although it was well built it's just a shame the quality level is not on a par. Dissapointing, infact, as there is no real reason for it.
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Accountants spoiling the Brew as they nearly did with Mercedes imo.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - My Dad thinks his e39 is a vastly better car than his old e34 530i (s) ever were. :)

Anyway, how long before cars drive themselves? - Drivers are indanger of ending up on the options list! :D
 
I jumped in a 1 series a while back and poked around the long horizontal alluminium dash strip.

Then something told me to scratch it with my finger nail. So I did. It scratched quite badly and no amount of buffing it with my work shirt cuff would make it any better.

When I gave it back I dropped the keys off paid my bill and ran like the wind.
 
I've no E34 experience so can't really comment on how true those claims were, but obviously you know my E39 v E60 experiences :)

But this by no means makes the quality poor, infact it's still excellent and compared with anyone else on the market with the possible exception of Audi they are considerably better. It's only those who've come from the previous models that would notice.

Compared to the sort of junk VW, Seat, Vauxhall etc like to palm off on the public an E60 is fashioned from the strongest granite in the world.
 
[TW]Fox;12685119 said:
I've no E34 experience so can't really comment on how true those claims were, but obviously you know my E39 v E60 experiences :)

But this by no means makes the quality poor, infact it's still excellent and compared with anyone else on the market with the possible exception of Audi they are considerably better. It's only those who've come from the previous models that would notice.

Compared to the sort of junk VW, Seat, Vauxhall etc like to palm off on the public an E60 is fashioned from the strongest granite in the world.
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Aye, and to be fair, my Dads e39 is getting on a bit now....

Strangely enough, the same issue arises with trucks, Modern Scanias whilst still exceptionally well built do not have the built from Granite feel that earlier ones do.

As I say, accountants penny pinching.....
 
I think aids that take aware the need for spacial awareness and visual observations are iffy as most people will just leave it to this whizz bang technology which is worrying and why they bought a car with it in the first place. So they didn't have to drive.

No its not an enthusiast aspect but its technical ability. You spend most of your learning doing manouvres and I think it's pretty important. What if we had an EMP blast? :D :P
 
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