The EMTB (Electric Mountain Bike) Discussion Thread...

[Richdog]

Hey guys. After years of riding non-assisted bikes I am finally about to use my CO2 scheme at work to get 50% off of a new EMTB. I live in a very mountainous country with lots of crazy looooong and steep climbs that I would normally get a gondola up or end up walking most of it and that are perfectly suited to EMTB's giving you that boost needed to actually get up to the top and then enjoy the downhills. Additionally, I will be planning 2-day cross-country tours in Summer with a very varied mix of terrains.

As I said I have a CO2 scheme at work (roughly equivalent to the cycle to work scheme I guess) which gives me 50% off of a new bike and a lot of flexibility to get something nice, so I have decided to go for the following which works out at around £4500 after shipping and taxes:

Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 HPC Action Team 625 https://www.cube.eu/uk/2020/e-bikes...d-160-hpc-actionteam-275-625-actionteam-2020/

Has the new Gen4 Bosch motor with 625w battery, top-of-the-line Fox suspension and Shimano XT brakes and drivetrain and nimble 27.5" wheels... I think it's great value (in the context of how expensive EMTB's are.

For all those looking for a value proposition, Decathlon also have released a new EMTB called the "Stilus" which has a very solid spec (basically the minimum required for actual tough trails) with the latest Bosch Gen4 motor and slightly smaller 500w battery and is "only" (I use the term loosely) £2700 https://www.decathlon.co.uk/stilus-full-suspension-electric-mountain-bike-sram-sx-id_8581581.html

So, anyone here have an EMTB or planning on getting one soon?

PS: Plkease lets not let this degenerate into a thread where people who don't see the need for EMTB's mock or question people that do because it isn't useful or constructive and I will ask the mods to keep an eye on that. Cheers!

Useful links (Youtube channels and forums):

Rob Rides EMTB (by far my favourite channel he just seems like such a lovely guy and has such enthusiasm): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxVMLv0XwgrIvWBjf4lWRBA/videos

EMTB Forums (owned by the guy from Rob Rides EMTB) https://www.emtbforums.com/community/

 

[Richdog]

I have got a Spesh Kenevo and had it for around 8 months now, I love it as the places I ride around here are steep, ebike will get up the climbs, the Nomad will not so its ideal. I still use my Nomad as well so best of both worlds.

The Cube looks like a good buy, however I personally would stick with a coil rear shock. These are heavy bikes and take big hits, I feel air will give too much of a dead feeling.

Have a look at the new Whyte E180, very very good spec for the money. New Gen4 motor and 625Wh battery as well. Same as the Cube

Sounds like you have a very nice bike... also a 700w battery right?

Thanks for the advice regarding the suspension, I know coils are technically better but the difference is not so significant and I won't need to worry about too much air when I will mainly be doing a mix of touring and trail riding... Fox factory is the creme-de-la-creme in its class and will soak up all of the bumps I will be worrying about without being pushed beyond its limits. Extreme downhill is pretty much out of the question as the older I get the more I value my health and staying in one piece.

The Whyte E180 looks nice so thanks for the recommendation, but it's not really what I am looking for. I am also considering the Focus Jam2 6.8 Plus as it has some innovative design features like tyre size switching, although overall it's a lower spec than the Cube https://www.focus-bikes.com/ch_de/185956-jam-6-8-plus

 

[Richdog]

Well on Saturday I went to a local store to look at some e-bikes and had a look at some Cubes but in the end had to do a test drive on a a go on a Cannondale as this was the only frame that they had in a size medium. The bike had 140mm travel, 9" tyres and a new Bosch CX gen4 motor. I only rode around the surrounding streets where there were unfortunately no hills, but I had a play with all of the various modes to get a feel for them. Turbo mode is super powerful and gets you to 25kmh very quickly. Tour mode is a nice linear boost that will eat up miles. Eco mode provides just enough boost to offset the additional weight of the bike. EMTB mode was the cooles as it dynamically switches between Tour node and Turbo mode depending on the terrain and incline. I also tried switching the engine off comompletely and it was still rideable on the flat so to be honest I am not even sure if I would need to be constantly using the motor in those instances. The motor was also audible but not annoying... although I have read that the new Bosch motor can rattle on bumpy sections when freewheeling due to the design. Still, it's not enough to bother me as the motor seems extremely solid.

However, as I said it was a 29" bike and the one I want to actually buy is a 27.5" bike, which will roll a bit worse on the flats. The good thing about a 27.5" though will be how it handles, with a lot more nimbleness and playfulness than a larger wheel when going up or down tight trails or steep mountain areas. The bike I buy will also be 160mm travel just in case I have to deal with any rough areas or tricky downhill on my travels... and in my country I would rather have that safety net than just stick with 140mm and then later run into any disappointments because of not having quite enough travel for something.

All in all it really made me excited to get an EMTB so I asked the LBS to send me a quote for the mode I want which I should get tomorrow.

I'm glad someone started a thread on this topic.
I have a 2019 Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro 500 29'er, bought it late July last year. I have just completed 500 miles on it, mainly up Cannock Chase and just exploring round where I live on canals and old railway lines. I use mainly Tour and sometimes ETMB mode and find it plenty of assistance.
I love it. It's a hardtail but the trails up Cannock Chase have already got me thinking of upgrading to a full sus. I also like the look of the new gen 4 Bosch motors as it decouples better so it doesn't feel like you're riding through mud when you go over the limit.
I have been looking at the Orbea Wild FS H20 https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/mtb-fun/wild-fs/cat/wild-fs-h20 but I do love Cubes so will be doing a lot of comparing before committing.
Best thing I have done to the bike is set it up tubeless. Got a puncture very first ride. Bike shop wanted £40 per wheel to do it so I got the stuff myself and watched some youtube videos. I have plenty of stans sealant left over for top ups and saved money.
Will be subscribing to this thread.
Cheers.

Awesome to see another EMTB owner give some good input, thanks!

What do you think of the 29er wheels... do you find them fine or would you go with 27.5" in a future bike? And yeah hardtails are something I could now never buy again... once you go full sus then anything else just rattles your teeth on any rough terrain.

I think I will ask the bike shop to make my tyres tubeless if they can as a freebie... seems like it makes sense and has a lot of advantages over tubed.

 

[Richdog]

These bikes look great, that Cube looks fantastic! So, how "easy" are these to ride up hill? I notice they are 10kg heavier than my (old now) Giant anthem!

The bike weight must translate somewhat into its trail ability?

With an EMTB the components are bigger and chunkier to compensate for the additional weight.

Go to YouTube and check the following channel (and the guys forum):

Rob Rides EMTB (by far my favourite channel he just seems like such a lovely guy and has such enthusiasm): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxVMLv0XwgrIvWBjf4lWRBA/videos

EMTB Forums (owned by the guy from Rob Rides EMTB) https://www.emtbforums.com/community/

There you will get a great overview of how the bikes perform and he has many hours of amazing content to watch.

 

[Richdog]

After my muddy ride home on Friday (so close to a bonk), I'm really tempted by one. If there was a shaft drive one with a closed cassette or similar, so maintenance is a minimum, I'd be all over it.

Not sure I really understood your post...

Interesting to see that Santa Cruz have also announced their Heckler as an e-bike. Looks nice but the price tag is still pretty eye watering!

My mates just got a Merida eOne-Sixty 10K, lovely bike and goes nicely, it's just a bit too heavy for me going down hill. I can see me getting one in 10 years (mid-50's!) but I do like the feeling of dying after a long technical climb.....

I met a 75yr old chap when I was doing the Marin trail last year, he lapped me twice on his eBike. Stopped for a chat and it was a game changer for him, he wouldn't have been able to do 1 lap on a non ebike, absolutely loved it!

Ebikes aren't just for 'old people', so lets not drive the thread down that road as there are many valid reasons for buying one. I am in my thirties and can't wait to get one and the same goes for other people I know and work with. They have already become extremely popular and I have no doubt that in 5 years electrified bikes will on average be lighter (like the Levo SL but way more affordable) and pretty much ubiquitous.

 

[Richdog]

https://www.ride25.com/cycling-blog/bonking-birds-bees/

LOL wow I have never heard the term but now I know... thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaft-driven_bicycle

By close cassette I mean one that sits inside a shell/case so that dirt can't get in it.

A bit like this but MTB: https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/17/...ectric-bike-ebike-byar-volta-motor-price-date

Ahh, I see. I think they haven't closed it for a reason though, surely? I thought from my research that a real concern for motors was heat output and keeping them cool and ventilated as they generate a lot of heat when riding, especially when stressed like on steep inclines. Enclosing the motor would make that tricky to manage.

I am no engineer though so maybe they can still make big improvements even if they are not fully enclosed, but as I understand it the newer motors are pretty much water tight (within reason).

 

[Richdog]

I love the 29, they just roll over everything. I will be sticking with 29 if I go full sus. Everyone has their own preferences though.
I like the simplicity of the hardtail, less things to go wrong but like you said it does rattle you round a bit unless you're standing up.

Hmm the 29 vs 27.5 thing is going to bug me a little... I have tried 26" and I have tried 29" but never 27.5" Still, logically it's going to be in the middle of the two in terms of rolling capability and you will sacrifice traction and gain agility vs a 29".

 

[Richdog]

Friday Managed 5 Loops of my local steep (VERY Steep) tracks, the climb up is impossible on an analogue bike but the Kenevo flew up it. Could have managed 5+ More runs if my friends bike didnt have a mechanical.

Saturday saw us head to FOD for a change, 12 Full runs with plenty of sessioning bits and bobs. I left it on ECO (20%) and my legs hurt. I had to stop riding due to being tired more than battery issue.

2 Days, 7000ish ft of climbing and what I ride my bike for, 17 downhill runs! I wouldn't manage half of that on my Nomad.

Also with the weather the way it is, going out on the e-bike makes it so much easier!

I think you just perfectly summarized why EMTB's are so awesome... they simply allow you to have more fun while still giving you as much of a workout as you want to have based on the assistance you dial in.

 

[Richdog]

Mine on a quick loop round Gisburn (at the entrance to Hully Gully).

And the only time it's been clean, just after I built it.

Nice... what mm travel front and rear doe sit have? Also which motor and battery is it?

 

[Richdog]

It's 170mm rear / 160mm front (coil converted Rock Shox Pike). Motor is 48v/750w (detuned from 25a to 20a) Bafang BBS02 with 42t chainweheel. Battery is 52v13.6Ah Super Shark battery from https://em3ev.com/shop/52v-14s4p-shark/

Interesting... is it strong and reliable and how much did it set you back altogether?

 

[Richdog]

Well, I went and bought myself the Cube Stereo Hybrid Action Team 140 625 and not the 1600 that I originally mentioned in the OP. See here: https://www.cube.eu/en/2020/e-bikes...id-140-hpc-actionteam-625-29-actionteam-2020/

It has 150mm/140mm Fox 36 Factory up front and rear respectively. I took shorter travel because I think it's enough for my general purposes and 160mm travel then starts to affect the ride more and I don't think I would really get so much use from it more than 5-10% of the time.

I paid full rrp (admittedly a few hundred more than I could have bought it for if I had mail-ordered) but luckily my work is paying around 50% with our cycle scheme so I am not too out of pocket. I also paid an extra £70 for an additional 3 years warranty on all the components (2 years standard so now 5 years in total) which I think is well worth it considering where I live. I also got the guy to throw in some Shimano XT Shadow flat pedals and a set or ergonomic grips which basically offsets the cost of the additional warranty.

The place I bought it from is next to my house so I figure I will get a lot of peace of mind being able to just quickly take it there if I have any problems. I will pick it up on Monday and can't wait to try it out...

 

[Richdog]

I can see the merit of them they’re just not for me.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Richdog]

love my Specialized LevoFSR!

wouldn't look anywhere else at this time

Specialized 2019 models and earlier (not sure if 2020 models suffer the same issue)have a very high motor failure rate, they are now famous for it with a fair few people having multiple failures spanning several new motors. https://www.emtbforums.com/community/threads/how-many-motors-have-you-blown-2019-levo-only.7317/

 

[Richdog]

Yeah I can't decide if its completely ridiculous!
Is it wasted on me?
I mean it's double the price pretty much of acid!
At same time these bikes are selling out fast.

Those are all out of stock by the way!

My road bike I've had since I was 15 and it was only a couple Of hundred carrera and had no issues

No-one can answer the question of if it's wasted on you. In the end if you have genuine physical/mobility problems then an E-bike may work wonders to enable you to go further than otherwise. The prices are high vs non-motorized bikes but that's the price of technology in this area and the motors and components needed are not cheap even without the profit markup.

If you are going to be doing cross country then I would be getting a full suspension bike to make things more stable and comfortable for the times it does get bumpy.

 

[Richdog]

My knees are also a bit flaky these days, is why I am looking at these also.

There are some tasty full suspension ones for 7.5 k. I dont think you need full suss for XC trails really.

A Cube full suspension (FS) will cost between 3.5-4k.

I have ridden both HT and FS XC for years and will never again buy a hard tail. It makes a big difference to my riding comfort when I am out for long hours even on modestly bumpy terrain.

 

[Richdog]

Like double the cost of the acid hybrid one!

That's because the Acid Hybrid is not a mountain bike and has worse quality components.

 

[Richdog]

There are many on here and Pedelecs who will disagree.
Mine are brilliant.

It is a cost-effective DIY solution solution to upgrade a bike with a motor such as Bafang and they can certainly perform decently for what you get, but it is of course not as good as a modern natively integrated Ebike with a system such as Bosch that are designed fro the ground up to be the best Ebike possible.

 

[Richdog]

Can anyone recommend insurance on Giant electric - MTB it's my sons and he's 16 but everywhere I look when entering age they all start at 2002 (18yrs) ?

Thanks

You will probably have to call them to see if they can tailor a quote. Just use an insurance price engine and get some numbers of the well-rated ones.

 

[Richdog]

So guys, anyone else bought an EMTB or even a regular Ebike in the last months? Or just been enjoying the one they already have?

My Cube Stereo Hybrid Action Team 140 625 is proving such a great thing to have... it's really given me the freedom I need to enjoy mountain biking in challenging terrain, which during COVID social distancing time has been a blessing. The great thing about having an Ebike is that you can use just as much power as you need... I often ride without any assistance (which is a workout on a 25KG bike!) and then switch it on when I get tired, with the assistance level depending on how steep the terrain is. It's been funny seeing some of my friends who initially gave me the usual "muh that's cheating" spiel who are now seriously looking at and considering one as they have now seen and experienced how useful they really are in really exploring the mountains without having to get off a bike and walk on long and steep inclines. It's also good for maintaining a safe and steady pace on roads at the end of a ride home, even against headwinds. It's just generally more fun.

What has also surprised me is how long the range is... the other day I went for a 40km ride on mostly flat or mildly hilly terrain and only used a piddling 12% battery, thanks to either using no motor or when I did use motor it was in "Eco" mode. Even when I do a ride on challenging terrain with lots of inclines I can still get over 70km when I make careful use of the various modes. I have tubeless tyres so there's a bit more maintenance involved in keeping the fluid topped up but so far they seem to run really well and in general I have a lot of confidence in the bike even in wet or muddy conditions. Speaking of which, even though it's 25KG the bike is very nice to handle, with the only weakness seeming to be at high speed on tight turns due to the 29er wheels.

I'm not worried about theft as it's always locked up in my cellar and I carry around a big ABUS U-lock in my backpack. There is theft where I live, but not as prolific as other countries and also I mostly leave the bike in more out of the way areas that require effort to get to where you would not really encounter so many bike thieves.

Speaking of backpack, I use the FR TRAIL E-RIDE 20 and it is really , really nice https://www.evocsports.com/FR-TRAIL-E-RIDE-20/100114607-M-L

I also bought some lightly padded protective gear for my legs, arms and shoulders just in case.

I still have my acoustic MTB but I now only use it for bombing around town and on shopping trips... for serious rides my EMTB is the daddy now.

 

[Richdog]

I'm still using both of my converted Trek's every day for the last 6/7 years but mainly for a 4.5 mile commute.

Nice... which conversion kit did you use? Once converted, can you also take off the battery and just ride it like a normal bike?