The F1 2014 season

Skeeter · 1 Dec 2013 at 16:15

I didn't ask. Just saying you could have saved having to make up a silky nickname by saying it was a typo? Unless you have been calling them that all season and we just haven't noticed?

All the Red Bull stuff about spending was to do with the FOTA (not FOM which I mistakenly posted earlier) RRA which was voluntary and not policed, so not a cap at all. Ferrari also aren't members of FOTA, neither are Sauber or Toro Rosso, and HRT left when they were about too. I'm not even sure the RRA is still in place?

The spending cap was an FIA proposal for the 2010 season. It was regulations that Campos, US F1 and Manor bought into. But everyone of the existing teams was against it.

Going back to your original proposal though, regardless of how a spending cap comes in, how would you have unrestricted development in any area when the teams have no money to spend on it? Unrestricted, or even mildly open rules consume incredible amounts of money.

I don't know why you keep trying to turn this into arguments. All I'm trying to do is decypher your posts. I'm pretty sure you have some good ideas and valid points in there, but from initial reads they are lost between the conflicting arguments and obscure acronyms only you understand.

deuse · 1 Dec 2013 at 18:34

Skeeter said:
I didn't ask. Just saying you could have saved having to make up a silky nickname by saying it was a typo? Unless you have been calling them that all season and we just haven't noticed?.

Oh FFS what do you think the ? means hmmmmm

Originally Posted by Skeeter View Post
Oh, so its just another silly nickname you have made up? You could have just said it was a typo or an auto correct?

See the ? mark "The question mark (?; also known as an interrogation point, interrogation mark, question point, query, or eroteme"

this is getting tedious

Indy500 · 1 Dec 2013 at 18:53

Skeeter said:
Going back to your original proposal though, regardless of how a spending cap comes in, how would you have unrestricted development in any area when the teams have no money to spend on it? Unrestricted, or even mildly open rules consume incredible amounts of money.

Except the teams will spend as much as possible regardless (this is observable in any motorsport - WEC/Le Mans, DTM, Nascar, Indycar). Innovation doesn't necessarily cost more money - if they're already spending $100-400 million a year is it really going to get any worse? Isn't F1 supposed to be an elite series? What makes it unique if it's going to drift to the same silhouette\performance-balanced set of regulations everyone else is using?

Kenai · 1 Dec 2013 at 19:08

deuse said:
Oh FFS what do you think the ? means hmmmmm

See the ? mark "The question mark (?; also known as an interrogation point, interrogation mark, question point, query, or eroteme"

this is getting tedious

Learn to read, he asked why didn't you just say it was a typo, he didn't ask if it was one.

Skeeter · 1 Dec 2013 at 19:11

deuse said:
Oh FFS what do you think the ? means hmmmmm

See the ? mark "The question mark (?; also known as an interrogation point, interrogation mark, question point, query, or eroteme"

this is getting tedious

I assumed you had just made "Red Bull ****" up on the spot to cover off making a mistake? Or have you been calling them that all season and we just haven't noticed?

Indy500 said:
Except the teams will spend as much as possible regardless (this is observable in any motorsport - WEC/Le Mans, DTM, Nascar, Indycar). Innovation doesn't necessarily cost more money - if they're already spending $100-400 million a year is it really going to get any worse? Isn't F1 supposed to be an elite series? What makes it unique if it's going to drift to the same silhouette\performance-balanced set of regulations everyone else is using?

The budgets now are a fraction of what was being spent in the early 00s when half the grid was backed by major car makers. Your right, money doesn't buy success (just look at Toyota), but it does help. Controlling it by saying you can only spend £xm is never going to work, its completely impossible to police. But there also isn't an unlimited bucket of money for F1 to be funded by. The biggest spenders ever seen in the sport all jumped ship a few years back as they couldn't stomach the cost.

Maybe moving to more road relevant rules would bring then back? Perhaps not having a retarded utterly useless to everyone engine format for a start?

Skeeter · 1 Dec 2013 at 19:12

Kenai said:
Learn to read, he asked why didn't you just say it was a typo, he didn't ask if it was one.

Thank you. I thought I was going crazy.

KautoStar · 1 Dec 2013 at 19:18

Good grief, what another abortion of a thread this turned into !

Indy500 · 1 Dec 2013 at 19:59

Skeeter said:
The budgets now are a fraction of what was being spent in the early 00s when half the grid was backed by major car makers.

Those manufacturers obviously saw advertising value in doing so. Why do you think Renault makes attendance free at its WSR weekends (that comprise of multiple sub-series, not just FR3.5)?

Skeeter said:
The biggest spenders ever seen in the sport all jumped ship a few years back as they couldn't stomach the cost.

There was a major economic recession and a massive shift in F1 regulations at the same time

Skeeter said:
Maybe moving to more road relevant rules would bring then back? Perhaps not having a retarded utterly useless to everyone engine format for a start?

Perhaps. The switch to pay-TV in most regions of the world is probably a factor as well (it's a huge difference in other sports, I would expect it to be the same for F1).

~Mike~ · 1 Dec 2013 at 20:04

KautoStar said:
Good grief, what another abortion of a thread this turned into !

That's why Duke's given up.

MissChief · 1 Dec 2013 at 20:08

The switch to Pay TV has mainly been in 'mature' countries where advertisers see very little 'new' people to advertise to, it's just churn between competitors, the same customers. Advertisers want to push into new countries where potential customers are far higher. Places such as India and China where many more people are open to advertising and are starting to have more and more disposable income each month.

Housey · 1 Dec 2013 at 20:22

Forcing pit stops is just utter garbage. WTF do they keep doing to our sport

deuse · 1 Dec 2013 at 21:25

Kenai said:
Learn to read, he asked why didn't you just say it was a typo, he didn't ask if it was one.

You did see my post before his when I said what it was?

Skeeter said:
I assumed you had just made "Red Bull ****" up on the spot to cover off making a mistake? Or have you been calling them that all season and we just haven't noticed?

Been saying it all season... why the ? marks all the time???????

deuse · 1 Dec 2013 at 21:30

MissChief said:
The switch to Pay TV has mainly been in 'mature' countries where advertisers see very little 'new' people to advertise to, it's just churn between competitors, the same customers. Advertisers want to push into new countries where potential customers are far higher. Places such as India and China where many more people are open to advertising and are starting to have more and more disposable income each month.

I see what you're saying but china had the biggest drop in viewing figures last season.
And by the looks of it figures will be even lower for this season.

deuse · 1 Dec 2013 at 21:32

Mike306 said:
That's why Duke's given up.

I've put him on my ignore list now. I'm done with arguing here.

Kenai · 1 Dec 2013 at 22:05

deuse said:
You did see my post before his when I said what it was?

Yes, that's why I said learn to read, because reading the entire chain of posts it was you that read his post wrong.

~Mike~ · 1 Dec 2013 at 22:10

deuse said:
I've put him on my ignore list now. I'm done with arguing here.

Why argue in the first place? You don't have to reply, just ignore it.

Skeeter · 1 Dec 2013 at 22:44

Indy500 said:
Those manufacturers obviously saw advertising value in doing so. Why do you think Renault makes attendance free at its WSR weekends (that comprise of multiple sub-series, not just FR3.5)?

Is WSR still free? I thought they moved away from a dedicated weekend and into just being a support series for other events? I've not been the last few years beecause of it.

But yes, it was one massive Renault marketing excersize. Although bizzarely one where you had to be over 30 years old to test drive an RS Clio or Megan. Being turned away as a 20-something who had turned up in a 172 was rather bemusing.

Housey said:
Forcing pit stops is just utter garbage. WTF do they keep doing to our sport

Pit stops have been forced since 2007.

Housey · 1 Dec 2013 at 23:16

Skeeter said:
Pit stops have been forced since 2007.

Because of tyre wear not because of prescribed legislation.

Housey · 1 Dec 2013 at 23:17

...though to be fair they do have to run types so I guess you're right but my point stands, it's still forcing the point. Tyres have been used to create a 'show' and I dislike that, I hate fuel restrictions even more.

JRS · 2 Dec 2013 at 00:45

Fuel restrictions are fine, when you're actually allowed to develop your engine. But the FIA would rather have teams spend sums that could fund small nuclear wars on finding some bull-**** aero trick that gets around the fuzzily-written rulebook. Can't use F1 as a testbed for developing something that would have any kind of road car application, for God's sake!