The future of integrated graphics AMD APU's and Intel CPU's

[Ferrari100]

This year looks to be an exciting one for AMD APU's. Zen will arrive at the end of the year and rumours of HBM making an appearance in APU's as well as the the 14nm node AMD finally have will make for some great iGPU competition with Intel. AMD have banded about that early next year we will see APU's with as much graphical prowess as a PS4.

I have written a more in depth article on it and would cherish people's opinions as I have always been fascinated by what these things are capable of. The efficiency gains brought to the table as well increased power in Small Form Factor PC cases surely means that iGPU's will only gain even more traction in the future.

No self-promotion - Davey

What do you guy's and girl's think?

 

[AlamoX]

nice read, personally wasn't really interested in APUs mainly because the dual graphic option required different gpu architecture than what i actualy use, i can very well see ppl looking for minimal build or budget be interested in APUs.
with Zen they will be able to solve 2 problems, memory thats been a performance hamper for APU, and the Die shrink that will allow AMD to integrate their latest graphic cores into the silicon, and if you add to that a decent compute cores, i would switch to APU in a blink.
about the price i hope they forget the crap they wer talking about, of doing premium pricing rather than being known for the cheaper choice, because that would be a killing blow for them, if there is one thing i learned from these last year looking at how the industry evolves, is that AMD is quite innovative, but their innovation often get crushed by a competitor who steers the software direction away from AMD, mainly because they have the market share to do so, so i hope they dont get stupid and greedy, and first and formost work toward grabing more market share, then work from there to offer premium, not the otherway around.

 

[Ferrari100]

nice read, personally wasn't really interested in APUs mainly because the dual graphic option required different gpu architecture than what i actualy use, i can very well see ppl looking for minimal build or budget be interested in APUs.
with Zen they will be able to solve 2 problems, memory thats been a performance hamper for APU, and the Die shrink that will allow AMD to integrate their latest graphic cores into the silicon, and if you add to that a decent compute cores, i would switch to APU in a blink.
about the price i hope they forget the crap they wer talking about, of doing premium pricing rather than being known for the cheaper choice, because that would be a killing blow for them, if there is one thing i learned from these last year looking at how the industry evolves, is that AMD is quite innovative, but their innovation often get crushed by a competitor who steers the software direction away from AMD, mainly because they have the market share to do so, so i hope they dont get stupid and greedy, and first and formost work toward grabing more market share, then work from there to offer premium, not the otherway around.

I have a similar trail of thought as you.
If indeed integrate graphics is able to match the generations console performance there will be no need for a dedicated GPU for me. I will just buy an APU again. Integrated iGPU technology is much more fascinating to me.

 

[pastymuncher]

I can see the reason for igpu's on lower cpu's. My wifes pc with a G3420 uses the igpu because it's enough for her needs. What get's me is that they are completely useless on a K series cpu and should be removed. I have never used the one on my 4670k and I am sure that the vast majority of people who buy the K series cpu's are the same.

 

[AlamoX]

I can see the reason for igpu's on lower cpu's. My wifes pc with a G3420 uses the igpu because it's enough for her needs. What get's me is that they are completely useless on a K series cpu and should be removed. I have never used the one on my 4670k and I am sure that the vast majority of people who buy the K series cpu's are the same.

still can be usefull for few days when your GPU dies on you

 

[Kaapstad]

Integrated graphics is the same as it has always been and is unlikely to change in the near future.

Fast enough to get you by if needed.

Way to slow to run the latest games maxed out.

 

[Ferrari100]

Integrated graphics is the same as it has always been and is unlikely to change in the near future.

Fast enough to get you by if needed.

Way to slow to run the latest games maxed out.

IGPU's will never play the latest games maxed out. There will always be room for the highest end GPU's, as there should be.
It is highly possible, and probable, that iGPUs will make low end GPU's obsolete and possibly do the same to mid-end GPU's.

I know many people that would be more than happy with current console generation performance to game with on their PC's. Over 40 million people prove that gaming is acceptable and enjoyable with these performance levels. If it gets to that from a single APU/CPU it's a great advancement.
All IMO, of course.

 

[Aretak]

I can see the reason for igpu's on lower cpu's. My wifes pc with a G3420 uses the igpu because it's enough for her needs. What get's me is that they are completely useless on a K series cpu and should be removed. I have never used the one on my 4670k and I am sure that the vast majority of people who buy the K series cpu's are the same.

I've used the iGPU on my 4790K a few times due to RMAs. It's fairly handy to have. I keep an old GTX 570 around now to fulfill that purpose simply because it isn't even worth selling, but a lot of people sell their old card as soon as they upgrade, whilst it still retains some value. I remember when my 4870 died in my old Phenom II setup, the system was completely useless and out of action for about a week until I got a replacement, since there were no integrated graphics and I didn't have a spare card.

I don't really see any compelling reason not to have them on K CPUs. It's not like Intel would just decide to shove a bunch more cores on there if the iGPU wasn't there. They could do that anyway if they really wanted to, but they don't as they can charge a premium for them with the HEDT lines.

 

[MGP]

IGPUs work well for most general purpose computers. Office use PCs (which seems to be the mainstay of most desktop purchases which stats show keeps the likes of Dell, HP, and other mass builders in business), and indeed most laptops now rely on IGPU. Many IGPUs are sufficient for HTPC type uses, along with basic gaming (you don't need a lot of power for candycrush, solitaire etc). It makes sense that the iGPU will get more powerful and erode the market for lower to medium range separate graphics cards, especially if that makes the PC cheaper to build, more energy efficient, and perhaps less awkward for patching and updates than needing a separate CPU and GPU.

It is only the enthusiast sector of gaming and specialist uses that really ignores the IGPU. Forums like this, where we are surrounded by those wanting to push the limits are the exception to the general users need and market.

 

[oxygene]

I use an apu for my HTPC. Perfect for that job as it means a much smaller case

 

[sand_dune]

iGPU doesn't need to run latest games "maxed out". Instead latest games should be optimized to run good enough on next generation iGPUs. In future less and less people will use discrete GPU. Also the difference in game quality between iGPU and discreet will be less by the year.

Having a monster with 3 fans consuming hundreds of watts is a joke from the past. I am waiting to move to something less ridiculous and archaic. That will happen for most people sooner or later.

 

[Kaapstad]

iGPU doesn't need to run latest games "maxed out". Instead latest games should be optimized to run good enough on next generation iGPUs. In future less and less people will use discrete GPU. Also the difference in game quality between iGPU and discreet will be less by the year.

Having a monster with 3 fans consuming hundreds of watts is a joke from the past. I am waiting to move to something less ridiculous and archaic. That will happen for most people sooner or later.

Not true.

iGPUs may get more powerful but new games will get ever more demanding so the gap won't close.

 

[Ash0787]

Is it just me that somewhat doesn't like the trend of condensing everything ?

HBM is cool but I'm worried it will make full cpu integration a possiblity,
combine with flash storage improvment and we could see everyones desktop looking like a mobile phone, there will be no room for customization anymore
and you might even lose your computer down the back of the sofa because it is so small

I dont like cloud gaming for the same reason ( + others )

 

[FoxEye]

Not true.

iGPUs may get more powerful but new games will get ever more demanding so the gap won't close.

Yeah you can only squeeze a certain number of transistors into a certain area. If you have to use some of these for CPU, then you'll never get the same performance as a dedicated GPU. Seems obvious.

The only way this could be true is if Intel started making iGPUs that were twice as efficient as AMD/nV - not going to happen

I wonder what happened to AMD's future prediction, where each individual core would be a combined CPU+GPU, and you'd have multi-core chips. That's not what a current APU is. I wonder if that idea is still alive somewhere.

 

[shankly1985]

APU is something to not ignore... Having just built an APU system for kids Xmas present I was surprised how well it was running games tomb raider 2013 720p mix medium/high settings I had locked 60fps.
Dirty bomb, team fortress 2 all performed excellent.

 

[sand_dune]

Also the difference in game quality between iGPU and discreet will be less by the year.

Not true.

iGPUs may get more powerful but new games will get ever more demanding so the gap won't close.

Not true.

How exactly what I say is not true if iGPU went from completely useless at modern gaming to reasonably capable in the last decade. With the anticipated iGPU progress they will become fully capable of modern gaming without sacrificing essential quality. The only answer of discreet GPU will be to crank up resolution, crank up AA, play at superior fps. Not to forget increased importance and size of the iGPU

How is that not a narrowing gap between iGPU and dGPU?

Now when PC gets only console ports as never before. If you throw in a 3 times more powerful iGPU than we have today, nobody will have to buy a dGPU to play latest games.

Hopefully dGPU will die out in the hands of those who adore them.

 

[nashathedog]

I wonder what happened to AMD's future prediction, where each individual core would be a combined CPU+GPU, and you'd have multi-core chips. That's not what a current APU is. I wonder if that idea is still alive somewhere.

Of course it is, It's another of those dreams...

 

[Rroff]

Not true.

How exactly what I say is not true if iGPU went from completely useless at modern gaming to reasonably capable in the last decade. With the anticipated iGPU progress they will become fully capable of modern gaming without sacrificing essential quality. The only answer of discreet GPU will be to crank up resolution, crank up AA, play at superior fps. Not to forget increased importance and size of the iGPU

How is that not a narrowing gap between iGPU and dGPU?

Now when PC gets only console ports as never before. If you throw in a 3 times more powerful iGPU than we have today, nobody will have to buy a dGPU to play latest games.

Hopefully dGPU will die out in the hands of those who adore them.

Given that the progress of video game development pushes the GPU to obsolescence far faster than the CPU that is kind of a short sighted outlook - even the latest games will play ok with a recent mid-range GPU on a 2007 CPU - you won't get far in modern games with GPUs of that era.

 

[nashathedog]

Mmmm, Someone never had his porridge this morning, Or is it Weetabix?

I forget now.

 

[sand_dune]

Given that the progress of video game development pushes the GPU to obsolescence far faster than the CPU that is kind of a short sighted outlook - even the latest games will play ok with a recent mid-range GPU on a 2007 CPU - you won't get far in modern games with GPUs of that era.

I am talking about iGPU vs dGPU. What you are saying is that basically all GPUs get outdated as time passes. So what is the thought process here?

Ok I think I got it. You mean in APU the iGPU will get quicker old than the CPU bit.

You are lucky you didn't have to change CPU as much as you had to change GPU since 2007. But I got news for you that CPU and GPU develop at exactly equal speed which is equal to how good Intel and TSMC and GF factories are. The reason GPU development in your eyes outpaced CPU is because GPU power draw increased by up to 50% since 2007 while capable of gaming CPU power draw got reduced three, five times you tell me. You can argue that there still are CPUs that draw 140-160 watts. Well that happens if you overclock the hell out of a cool CPU with possible addition of unnecessary 4-6 cores.

The consoles are examples that contradict your theory, they have the same CPU and the same GPU that age at the same speed, while competing with PC crowd. Not in terms ability to display heavily over-processed 8 megapixels in every frame at hundreds of fps. But compete for a player base and win.