The general cost of financial fraud.

[413x]

It's always eye opening when on a tech forum people are falling foul of what should really be clear scams.

I now see more and more warnings making BTs via my bank about fraud.

I see people
-on Facebook groups saying "I've bought this from scamsite.com, is it legit"
-ebay sales on accounts with a seller often with "-0" on thier name with 0 feedback, 20 identical High value items with generic pics all selling.
-people wiring money to strangers for goods to be posted despite it being, what I thought was, common knowledge 'only pay in cash on delivery.


As someone who is fairly saavy to this stuff I accept not everyone is the same. But it seems like education really doesn't sink in. And people cannot resist a "bargain".


Banks seem pretty good at covering people. But is this a problem in itself? No risk?

For example PayPal, they basically cover anything, and I'm sure the scammers successfully take this money and it cannot be collected by PayPal.



So what is the cost? And will. Purchase protection be diluted? Surely these costs cannot grow indefinitely?
These costs are. Obviously passed onto us, much like insurance premiums for cars etc.



Can nothing be done to stem the tide?
At what point does it become crippling to the likes of PayPal?
Or can banks huge profits and paypal's fees continue to swallow this?


(this thread may have been triggered by another recent thread .)

 

[Paracelsus]

I feel like it's big problem that's getting bigger.
I've known, or known of, quite a few people who have been scammed, from relatively minor events to 4 figures, some got their money back via banks, others didn't.
The common thread, as you allude to, is lack of savviness when it comes to sniffing out a scam.
Most people here (tech nerds) I expect to be very savvy on this stuff, especially those of us in 30s/40s and beyond who lived through the relatively early Internet, have seen it all and thus have finely honed bullcrap detectors.

But I don't think it's that easy to teach awareness. There are basic things you can teach, but you really need that 6th sense for nailing some of the more sophisticated scams.

I also think lack of IT knowledge is a real killer, for people who have either grown up with phones as their primary computer, or older people not into tech.
A family member of mine got scammed by a website offering to SORN cars for £30. Of course, it doesn't cost anything - it's free - the site was a middleman who (probably legally) took £30 to do a 2 minute job on DVLA website.
The problem is this person doesn't even know what a URL is. They search for something like 'SORN car' in Google and click the first thing, which is easily placed high up by paying for ads.
They can't be blamed entirely for this - I heard a Government advert on the radio the other day advertising some sort of benefits related service, which didn't spell out a URL but said 'search for xxxxx'. Because they know that people don't know what a URL is anymore. So they're at the mercy of seach engines.

Then the tech itself often doesn't help matters. One of the classic scam tactics is hiding source email address, right? Well you can't even see the *real* source address in e.g. Gmail on Android unless you go out of the way to expand the header.
It's an example of obfuscating info to make for a more simple interface for the masses. But obviously a double-edged sword.

I think the answer has to be teaching people about scams from school age and a stronger focus on IT. One of three things largely missing from education, the other two being personal finance and critical thinking.

 

[teenwolf]

once lockdown started the scams have tenfold.

i listed a phone for sale he came to my house and he wanted to pay by bank transfer i said send a £1 first make sure it lands and then do the rest. he showed me it had been sent, checked my bank and no was not there.
said go the cash out and come back, never to be seen again.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

I think what we have to do is put warnings that appear to make sure people are aware. I have a feelings banks are going to start to refuse money back when people are not learning themselves. As long as they put security in place and warnings people should be held accountable. IMO.

 

[moon man]

I've seen afew on TV lately when parents get distressing wattsapp messages that their sons daughters are in trouble ,need money urgently, scam follows

 

[Feek]

It's where the old saying comes into play.

If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Unfortunately, common sense often goes out of the window when something sounds too good to be true.

 

[throwaway4372]

This is all big tech putting the responsibility on users rather than taking responsibility themselves. Regulation has failed to keep up with technological progress. It is impossible for humans to regulate at an ever increasing speed, so we must slow the technological change down to match our human abilities.

A decent start would be:
- require ID for all social media accounts
- ban links on social media, and images in comments (memes)
- default all email systems to block attachments from non-contacts

 

[BUDFORCE]

I agree, with all the unnecessary ******** kids are taught in school (do they still cover Shakespeare? Not even written in English) anyway education about this and also financial awareness (eg loans/credit cards and debt) as people don't have a clue how these work and get themselves into a real mess.

 

[Rroff]

I've seen afew on TV lately when parents get distressing wattsapp messages that their sons daughters are in trouble ,need money urgently, scam follows

One of my colleagues fell for one of those - one of the girls at work had her Facebook account compromised and sent a message around that she was stuck on holiday on some island and needed £100s for a plane ticket home - he rushed in all white knighting...

If he actually knew her that well he'd have known she is quite capable of looking after herself, smart when it comes to money and wouldn't be sending a message out like that on FB anyhow...

To be fair none of us are completely scam proof but 99% of the scams out there I can't even imagine how people ever fall for them.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

To be fair none of us are completely scam proof but 99% of the scams out there I can't even imagine how people ever fall for them.

Bargains, Family and Sob Stories. Don't forget that Nigerian prince.

 

[Felon]

I should never laugh, because one day I might get stung, but I did find this really quite funny;

 

[teenwolf]

40k lol

 

[Scort]

snip

A few years ago, I spent some time creating a presentation on common scams, and reached out to a number of Youtubers to use some of their videos (Jim Browning being one iirc) – I made it nice and simple, with a view of it being understood by your average home user/elderly person. I booked time in my local community hall, and it was announced several weeks prior, as a free event…. I had one person turn up

It was quite a shame, as these scams are so easy to spot on email and phone call – with just a few simple steps, and watching the aforementioned YT channel, there are so many people (of all ages) falling for these scams. I had hoped to impart a bit of knowledge to help safeguard, but alas.

The Wife keeps getting scams via Facebook marketplace at the moment – selling an old baby carry/cot system, she’s had 5 or 6 people reach out, and only one has been genuine. The rest follow pretty much the same script each time and their profile is very sparse, and very low effort – last nights attempt was someone who clearly had photos of Americans on it, and they kept talking about dollars and cents… on a UK listing lol. I strung them along for a bit, but I don’t think they could read my sarcastic replies, and were trying to get me to pay insurance on a courier payment.

Things will never change imo

 

[413x]

I've seen afew on TV lately when parents get distressing wattsapp messages that their sons daughters are in trouble ,need money urgently, scam follows

My mum got a text from 'her son' (a fraudster trying his luck)

Read something like.
"it's your son I need some cash, this is my new number"


My poor mum isn't in a good way and nearly fell for it.
Unfortunately she didn't think to message my number and check. She said 'is this alex'. Obviously now he knew she had a son. And my name.


The scam continued wanting a few thousand .luckily I have never asked for money and she checked with my step dad. Step dad knew it was a scam. But he didn't fully understand. He thought "my number was hacked".


I had to explain it was likely just a scammer trying numbers and waiting for bites. It was nothing to do with my number. He had either guessed my mums or found it on a dark Web database.


Had she been on her own, or I had asked for money before she may have sent it.

He had an extended conversation with my mum apparently.

 

[moon man]

Yes I worry about my dad falling for a scam he is 90 next month but won't entertain internet banking he likes to go to town and call in person at the bank via afew coffee shops ,any excuse to go for a natter sometimes tbh

 

[Haggisman]

Should be a mandatory training course on how to spot common scams which victims have to complete before they are refunded. Also should be a reduction of the refund amount for subsequent hits, e.g. First time you get 100% refund, next time 90% etc.

 

[KompuKare]

The obfuscation of real email addresses is hardly new.
Hiding file extensions is a pretty old thing now and has been responsible for millions of scam "very popular song.MP3.exe" attachments for years
All the solve what? Discourage people from being overwhelmed by file types and extensions?
Similarly all those "big" hackers who were convicted with big FBI etc fanfare for exploring VBA macros and there was never a mention about how negligent Microsoft had been to piggyback VBA into everything without any concern for security. But no, the nerdy idiot who exploited that (back then thee mostly was no financial motive) gets all the blame, some prosecutors gets political points and the negligent enabling big corporation got off without even a stern word.
Rant over

 

[mid_gen]

A few years ago, I spent some time creating a presentation on common scams, and reached out to a number of Youtubers to use some of their videos (Jim Browning being one iirc) – I made it nice and simple, with a view of it being understood by your average home user/elderly person. I booked time in my local community hall, and it was announced several weeks prior, as a free event…. I had one person turn up

It was quite a shame, as these scams are so easy to spot on email and phone call – with just a few simple steps, and watching the aforementioned YT channel, there are so many people (of all ages) falling for these scams. I had hoped to impart a bit of knowledge to help safeguard, but alas.

The Wife keeps getting scams via Facebook marketplace at the moment – selling an old baby carry/cot system, she’s had 5 or 6 people reach out, and only one has been genuine. The rest follow pretty much the same script each time and their profile is very sparse, and very low effort – last nights attempt was someone who clearly had photos of Americans on it, and they kept talking about dollars and cents… on a UK listing lol. I strung them along for a bit, but I don’t think they could read my sarcastic replies, and were trying to get me to pay insurance on a courier payment.

Things will never change imo

Facebook marketplace is an absolute joke. I'm selling a few bits of stuff on there are the moment, which has gone fine.....but *every* single time I log on, the recommended adverts always include the same images. I don't know whether the pictures of scantily clad women posing in front of a bed is prostitution or just trying to hook desperate incels into scams or what, but it's absolutely blatant, literally the same images over and over again.

 

[dlockers]

Facebook marketplace is an absolute joke. I'm selling a few bits of stuff on there are the moment, which has gone fine.....but *every* single time I log on, the recommended adverts always include the same images. I don't know whether the pictures of scantily clad women posing in front of a bed is prostitution or just trying to hook desperate incels into scams or what, but it's absolutely blatant, literally the same images over and over again.

lol! I have these too. I think a lot of them are genuine - very bizarre marketing technique. Lots of fitted wardrobe companies that seem legit with some ugly mare who must be a relation posing in the mirror. Super odd!

 

[mid_gen]

lol! I have these too. I think a lot of them are genuine - very bizarre marketing technique. Lots of fitted wardrobe companies that seem legit with some ugly mare who must be a relation posing in the mirror. Super odd!

Bird in blue sat on a bed in disgustingly fashionably all-grey room? The location changes but it's always there, usually several of em.

Haha, something actually funny on Facebook, I just checked again and some bloke has posted a joke bed advert with his overweight, pasty self bending over a bed