The Great Decline

Hades said:
I am English (I consider myself British before English though). I didn't want Scotland to leave during the last independence vote and was glad they voted to remain. Also in the interests of transparency I voted to remain in the EU and generally also vote Conservative or Lib Dem. But if I were Scottish I'd probably be voting to leave now. I can understand why they would want to, especially if they felt they could rejoin the EU.

I have a question. In the event of Scotland voting in the future to leave the UK how would it be defined whether or not you're Scottish? I might be missing something simple because there must be a list of people eligible to vote. But was that right to vote simply based on living and therefore having a right to vote in a constituency in Scotland? What would stop me moving to Scotland, declaring myself to be Scottish, and leaving the UK if they voted to leave? How do we determine someone is Scottish now?

Sorry if that's an obvious question.
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The eligilbiltiy in 2014 was you had to live in Scotland, and were an EU or Commonwealth citizen over the age of 16 - you didn't have to be 'Scottish'. So I assume that the criteria in post Brexit Scotland would be that you had to live here and are registered to vote here. I suppose you'd have to be a British or Commonwealth Citizen and live in Scotland. There's nothing stopping you moving up and voting if that's what you want to do. If you live in the country, then you deserve to have a say.
At the time, there was a lot of talk about allowing those who live outwith Scotland but are 'Scottish' to vote but that was denied. I think it's impossible to ascertain who is 'Scottish' by identity rather than residence.

I don't think this is about who is and who isn't Scottish - indeed, I consider myself British rather than Scottish. After independence I'm not sure what I'd call myself...
 
Hades said:
I am English (I consider myself British before English though). I didn't want Scotland to leave during the last independence vote and was glad they voted to remain. Also in the interests of transparency I voted to remain in the EU and generally also vote Conservative or Lib Dem. But if I were Scottish I'd probably be voting to leave now. I can understand why they would want to, especially if they felt they could rejoin the EU.

I have a question. In the event of Scotland voting in the future to leave the UK how would it be defined whether or not you're Scottish? I might be missing something simple because there must be a list of people eligible to vote. But was that right to vote simply based on living and therefore having a right to vote in a constituency in Scotland? What would stop me moving to Scotland, declaring myself to be Scottish, and leaving the UK if they voted to leave? How do we determine someone is Scottish now?

Sorry if that's an obvious question.
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Being registered to vote in Scotland. Whatever the rules are regarding that.

So yeah if you rented up here then registered as your main residence you could vote.

But who would actually do that if they weren't Scottish tbh?
 
Psycho Sonny said:
I think northern Ireland is the biggest gainer. Then Wales and then Scotland.

If we actually gave Ireland back the rest would be a lot better off and so would the Irish.

It would also help Brexit negotiations. But that would be too smart a thing to do.
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NI has always had the option for leaving the UK for a United Ireland, how many in NI would actually vote for that though?
 
Last time the SNP argued that Scotland could live off oil. That would have gone down well...

They still havent provided a realistic way of Scotland supporting itself. The last time they ran themselves was 300 years ago and they went bankrupt. Is the EU really going to risk taking them on now?
 
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@Psycho Sonny

Thing is most stuff is bought from China for example because it's cheaper

You start producing that stuff here and nobody will be able to afford it with the wages as you said

I'm no expert unfortunately but it would take a long time I guess to start any kind of industry going here again

That was one thing I liked about trump taking some of the dependence on China away

The likes of Boris and biden will just continue things as they are, which as we can see will lead to long term problems
 
People dont understand the concept of "buy cheap, buy twice". Which does apply to most stuff made in China :\

Their stuff is cheap because its junk. They produce stainless steel which rusts ffs :P
 
dacads said:
@Psycho Sonny

Thing is most stuff is bought from China for example because it's cheaper

You start producing that stuff here and nobody will be able to afford it with the wages as you said

I'm no expert unfortunately but it would take a long time I guess to start any kind of industry going here again

That was one thing I liked about trump taking some of the dependence on China away

The likes of Boris and biden will just continue things as they are, which as we can see will lead to long term problems
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It's not a quick easy fix.

You start making stuff here. It will take 20-30 years before you start to see the positive benefits and the future generation will be the ones who can afford to buy whatever they want.

If you keep on doing what is currently happening. Then every generation after this one will be on its knees in terms of everything where a lucky few make it and the majority literally are living in modern slums with crap to eat.

You need to invest in the future that means you won't see any positive effect for a long time it's like a pension in that regard. The earlier you start the better off you will be in the future. Invest nothing and later on you are in ruins unless you get lucky.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
NI has always had the option for leaving the UK for a United Ireland, how many in NI would actually vote for that though?
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Well of the alternative is a huge wall going around their country and a hard border then I imagine the smarter ones will vote with their brains.

The ones who have had their sectarian hate engrained into them from a young age not so much.
 
neocon said:
Well how do you explain the transatlantic slave trade?
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Do some more research into slavery!?( You obviously have not) before the transatlantic slave trade started....think you will find it was all over and just as many were sold over to the far East and middle East.
Since the dawn of time it has existed and to this day it goes on.
It's wrong but don't go with ' British did it all'
 
Hades said:
People who wanted to remain in the EU, if they felt that Scotland had a strong chance of rejoining.

Applications for Irish citizenship have apparently been quite high.
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I'm assuming that those applying have Irish roots or heritage of some sort. Or rely heavily on the EU for their work or business.

If I was going to be leaving the UK. Ireland wouldn't be on the list at all.
 
I’m no historian, but the delusion of Britain being “great” (in terms of world power) is a hangover from the late-19th/early-20th century (at best). After WW2, it’s been a decline, so anyone thinking that in the 21st century is certainly kidding themselves. Arguably the illusion of us still being a world policeman might be of some value to our arms industry in terms of “brand”, but I resent the way that a fair chunk of the population hold onto the “make Britain great again” rubbish that populists like Johnson and Farrage spout without any real way of achieving it.

The irony is that a lot of my parents generation (late 70s) lap this up, even though they don’t really remember “the good old days”. It’s selling the dream that not even my grand-parents generation really lived.

We’d be much better off considering ourselves an upper middle country like most of Europe, and leave the big boys to their games.
 
alchal said:
Do some more research into slavery!?( You obviously have not) before the transatlantic slave trade started....think you will find it was all over and just as many were sold over to the far East and middle East.
Since the dawn of time it has existed and to this day it goes on.
It's wrong but don't go with ' British did it all'
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The slave trade to the middle east absolutely dwarfs the trans Atlantic slave trade, yet is never talked about, it's still going on to this day.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
The slave trade to the middle east absolutely dwarfs the trans Atlantic slave trade, yet is never talked about, it's still going on to this day.
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But it's easier to just shout at things that happened over 200 years ago and point at evil white people?
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
The slave trade to the middle east absolutely dwarfs the trans Atlantic slave trade, yet is never talked about, it's still going on to this day.
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Slaves are still here today in Britain too.

So you reckon we should focus efforts on the middle East versus problems here?

I don't know why slaves were even brought up in this thread other than to say we cannot compete against slave labour which currently exists everywhere.

Yes if manufacturing opens here it's mainly robots because cheaper long term but then you do need people to service the robots.

Arguing slave trade from hundreds and thousands of years ago is completely irrelevant to the thread.

Some people will always be slaves in a free market world.

The only other solution is communism. Which has never been attempted in the modern world in a country with relatively high prosperity compared to the rest of the world.

It would never work in Asia or Africa on the main due to corruption and poverty.

But our governments are also corrupt to the point it would hurt them if such a idea was implemented they could no longer line the pockets of their friends and families.

I don't see it ever happening therefore yeah people will be slaves in all countries. Just more prevalent in poorer regions.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Slaves are still here today in Britain too.
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Not legally like they pretty much are in the middle east...

It was also going on in Africa long before western nations arrived. We didn't start it, we just invested in it. The African tribal leaders sold off their own people to the slave traders.
 
Nasher said:
Not legally like they pretty much are in the middle east...

It was also going on in Africa long before western nations arrived. We didn't start it, we just invested in it. The African tribal leaders sold off their own people to the slave traders.
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Actually they are here legally.

Amazon employ them as the most famous example.

As do yodel and my Hermes no doubt.

Where you are paid per delivery or targets which are so high that you need to be absolutely perfect to hit them even then you could only keep that up for so long before burn out.

Or do they come under a different legal viewpoint like minimum wage rather than slave labour?
 
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