The "is there a difference" Hi-Fi/Home Cinema Discussion thread

[oli collett]

You really haven't got this yet have you.
Pretty much seemingly anyone interested in the hi-fi industry is seemingly biased in one way or another.
Mags are full of mega-hyped kit, most online reviewers take no account of personal preferences, and most owners when asked for advice will simply tell the OP to buy what he has, cos otherwise it would hurt his ego. If you don't believe me on that, checkout the AV forums. Here's a typical exchange:
"I'm looking for a CD costing £400, what do you recommend" (in other words I can't be bothered to use the search function).
Poster 1:
"I bought Product X, yes it costs twice the amount, but it's the dogs, just buy it".

In short, don't trust ANYONE'S thoughts but your own and the only way to prove that either way is to have a listen.

Again, echoing above, you seem to have missed my point of this thread (i'm not getting at you, i just might not have made that clear).

This isn't about people's opinions on whether X is better than Y - it's about finding some credible evidence that gets away from peoples opinions by using scientific measurement. How can you accuse the results of an A/B/X test of bias? I have looked all over the net and am yet to find any kind of test that suggests people can tell a difference with this stuff and all i'm getting in reply is "i know it makes a difference because i can hear it myself".

 

[oli collett]

It is trolling because they miss the fundamental point and that what sounds great to one person doesnt sound great to another. Its like asking someone to measure how lovely a wallpaper is in someones house, prove it by measuring it. If you cant prove it then why doesnt everyone have the same wallpaper ?? Whats measureable about why one person prefers one from another ?? That sort of arguement which you seem to want to get into is just plain retarded.

Bear,

An A/B/X test has nothing to do with what sounds great to one person or another. It is about whether you can tell the difference - It's in the thread title Please read up on the A/B/X test because it is quite clear that it has nothing to do with an opinion on something, only on whether you can identify A from B.

 

[oli collett]

Part of that is, people do not have a standardized test to say this product is better than that. I believe in adapting statistics to think how they will interact with the music I feed them. So, for example my dream system would include the ATC SCM12, because they are extremely transient and very hard to drive. Hard to drive suggest to me they are dynamic and would be great to suite my kind of music.

You will not find a common consensus in which is better than the other. Because people's listening habits vary so much. Some people listen to music passively, some people listen to music very closely and intimately like they would be in a theatre or opera. So a geek with his monitor on, and his am tucked underneath his monitor and his music comic from FLAC is going to be less discriminating than an opera fan who has 8 recordings of one work all because they have minor differences in them.

I agree!!! and i've never suggested that you can, and this thread has nothing to do with preferring product A over B and i'm certainly not suggesting that.

As i have stated several times - it is about whether you can identify A from B. If you think that a £10K Krell amp sounds entirely different from a £500 Yamaha, or a £2/m speaker cable different to a £2000/m one, then you should be able to pass an A/B/X test. It doesn't matter which you prefer!

 

[oli collett]

What more credible evidence do you need than your own ears?
I'm not asking you to believe what I say about kit differences, as (a) I don't care, and (b) as stated by Bear, different people have different audio priorities, thus influencing what they like the most.
What I find to be so frustrating is our repeated comments of "go have a listen", simply falling on deaf ears.

At the end of the day, either find a decent dealer or if you really want, say hi in south London and I can dem the difference between some cables.

Again, as i've said to bear, it's nothing to do with audio priorities OR preferences! The fact that i've not yet seen anyone able to tell the difference between such equipment in A/B/X testing yet claim they can outside of the test just using their ears, i'd suggest that ears are not as reliable as they should be!

 

[oli collett]

So go and prove it yourself, go to a decent hifi shop and either get a demo and specify the conditions or ask to borrow some kit and take it home with you and you can do all the double blind testing you want.

In all seriousness, how are we supposed to do the research for you unless we have stacks of kit sitting around ??

I'm not suggesting you do the research, but do you not think it's a bit odd that there doesn't seem to be any A/B/X tests that suggest that such things do make a difference? I was hoping someone might be able to provide links to such tests but i've yet to see any.

 

[oli collett]

But without personally doing the research we cant answer. The "is there a difference" title in this thread can only be answered if we can discern a difference through the double blind test and as most of us dont have enough equipment to actually do a test we cant answer.

Do I think it strange that no one had done these tests ?? No, because I dont think many people care enough about it, just like I didnt care about doing a double blind test when purchasing a £750 Miele washing machine to see which came up the cleanest.

Saying that though, you have piqued my interest in trying it out, but unfortunately I dont have enough equipment to try it. Perhaps I might give some door bell wire and speaker cable a go as its not going to cost a bomb.

I mean in terms of magazines. Take that amplifier test for example - the conclusions from that were difficult to argue with, but the same magazine went back to reviewing amplifiers as they did before a few months later!! I don't expect anyone to have the time to do such a test easily, it's just a shame that there aren't more magazines doing them.

 

[oli collett]

You clearly either (a) haven't listened to a word of what we've said, or (b) really are simply here to deliberately provoke people.


Either way, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'RE A WINNER.
You've won second place!

I've been on the OCUK forums for six years now and you've become only the second person I've ever come across worthy of being "ignored".



Go on, you know you owe it to yourself, go listen and stop wasting other peoples time...

Well, you won't be reading this, but i have to say, i've never unintentionally got someone so wound up in my entire time on the interwebs. Bizzare.