The joy of being a landlord

[bigmike20vt]

No hate, it's called Capitalism.

If they want to make money from their "product" (rental property) then they need to provide an adequate quality of "product".

It is not the responsibility of government (via general taxation) to ensure their continued profit by paying to upgrade their sub-standard product for them.

I dont disagree............. however only to the point that that product is at a similar spec to others in the area. and if the government change the rules and decide that all need to be improved then capitalism swings both ways.

 

[Devilman]

I dont disagree............. however only to the point that that product is at a similar spec to others in the area. and if the government change the rules and decide that all need to be improved then capitalism swings both ways.

I agree, it is unreasonable to expect rental properties to be held to a higher standard than private residence's in the same area.

 

[chrcoluk]

Why should the government issue grants to landlords allowing them to transfer the cost of upgrading the property they make profit from onto everyone else?

It's bad enough that they effectively transfer the increased cost of living in a "low EPC" property onto the tenants in the first place since it's THEIR heating bills etc.. that suffer, not the LL.

So why should general taxation be used to prop up hobby landlords rather than them having to fix up the property themselves?

I would think its obvious, keeping people housed in affordable efficient homes is more important than envy ideology that makes people jealous someone else might be getting something for free.

Its quite obvious if a landlord spends 1000s to improve the EPC, then its the tenant that will pay that via higher rents, and we already have rents at ridiculous levels. There may also be landlords who dont have the money or means at hand to do it at all, and then would probably have to sell up which reduces property availability on the letting market.

You could apply your argument to owner-occupiers, they have existing schemes.

We in this position due to decades of mismanagement from multiple governments.

 

[Sythe79]

I guess we should all be like the way more professional outfit that is the one offered by the Labour MP Jas Athwal.... given his position I am guessing he is the benchmark of landlords to aim for?

His members records show he partly owns 18 properties, that would pretty much put him at the high end of the hobbyist landlord. Hardly the benchmark of a professional landlord, his business interests seem to be daycare.

 

[JonRGV250]

his business interests seem to be daycare.

He’s also an ant and mould enthusiast.

 

[EddScott]

So, this is a fun one. Bearing in mind, I'm in Wales so rules are more draconian.

I served notice on a tenant to leave a property back in March. In Wales, they have 6 months. Fast forward to September and the tenant hasn't left. I start the possession order proceedure.

On Friday I have a letter from the courts with a date in November to go to court.

I thought I'd done everything right - boiler cert, electrical safety cert, EPC, my contact and address details and deposit protection certificate. This last bit is important.

The tenant has been in the property since May 2018. I placed the deposit with the DPS within the first few days of the tenant moving in. The DPS email the tenant to confirm the deposit is with them.

When the rules changed in 2022 and periodic tenancies changed to Standard Occupational Contracts. At this point, I should have given the tenant the DPS certificate - I didn't.

I gave the tenant the certificate on the date I gave them notice with copies of everything else required.

Now, I hold my hands up and admit I didn't know there was such a thing as this certificate. It's not like I can't prove the deposit was placed with the DPS in the timeframe rquired and the tenant had confirmation.

So, in November, when I'm in court on my tod and the tenant has the free legal aid from Shelter Cymru, my possession request will be rejected - yay!

I think, now the tenant has this certiticate, I can start the process again from mid November. That will be May '25. Then we'll have another couple of months of this. I'll also get hammered by whatever rises will be coming the budget and CGT.

Fortunately, the tenant is still paying the rent and we've not fallen out. It's not their fault and they've done nothing wrong. We discussed the eviction process on the basis it would force the council's hand to find somewhere for them.

You have to be so damn careful. One slip up and you're done. There is nowhere to rent here, no one wants it anymore, and what there is, is stupid money as demand massively outstrips supply.

 

[JonRGV250]

Sorry to hear that, it’s not a great position for anyone.
The above is why I’m happy to pay for a decent agent.

 

[M1k3H]

thinking of becoming a landlord around the end of next year.

We've overpaid quite significantly for the last 8 years on our mortgage with the aim of building sufficient equity to allow us to borrow additional money to put down as a deposit for a 2 bed flat.

I'm hearing quite a few people who are landlords that are looking to sell as they are not making much if any money.

Did some rough estimates, and I could get something like £100/month gross. That includes an agency fee subtracted from the rent (and obviously mortgage payment), but does not include any repairs/maintenance.

Doesn't seem like much to be honest; but I could always go for an interest only BTL and that would push gross profit to about £350/month which isn't too bad, with the aim of selling the flat close to retirement to pay off the mortgage.

Will start putting more numbers in a spreadsheet and speaking more with people who are already landlords to see if this is worth it.

My goal here is to increase our disposable income right now, and to supplement our retirement income in around 20 years time (said optimistically).

 

[ci_newman]

thinking of becoming a landlord around the end of next year.

We've overpaid quite significantly for the last 8 years on our mortgage with the aim of building sufficient equity to allow us to borrow additional money to put down as a deposit for a 2 bed flat.

I'm hearing quite a few people who are landlords that are looking to sell as they are not making much if any money.

Did some rough estimates, and I could get something like £100/month gross. That includes an agency fee subtracted from the rent (and obviously mortgage payment), but does not include any repairs/maintenance.

Doesn't seem like much to be honest; but I could always go for an interest only BTL and that would push gross profit to about £350/month which isn't too bad, with the aim of selling the flat close to retirement to pay off the mortgage.

Will start putting more numbers in a spreadsheet and speaking more with people who are already landlords to see if this is worth it.

My goal here is to increase our disposable income right now, and to supplement our retirement income in around 20 years time (said optimistically).

You appear to have overlooked income tax too.

If you're a higher rate tax payer your housing income goes down to £60/month or £210 on an interest free mortgage.

The long and short of it is that you can get better returns from individual savings accounts, ISAs and stocks and shares.

 

[M1k3H]

You appear to have overlooked income tax too.

If you're a higher rate tax payer your housing income goes down to £60/month or £210 on an interest free mortgage.

The long and short of it is that you can get better returns from individual savings accounts, ISAs and stocks and shares.

That is true, I forgot about this! I do fall into the higher rate, but my partner does not. Perhaps we need to buy something with her having full ownership of the rental property.

Alternatively, like you said we just keep ploughing money into ISAs/stocks and shares. We both have Vanguard stocks and shares ISAs currently and a few 'good' (4%) savings accounts.

 

[ci_newman]

That is true, I forgot about this! I do fall into the higher rate, but my partner does not. Perhaps we need to buy something with her having full ownership of the rental property.

Alternatively, like you said we just keep ploughing money into ISAs/stocks and shares. We both have Vanguard stocks and shares ISAs currently and a few 'good' (4%) savings accounts.

Second-home stamp duty fees have a massive impact on your upfront costs too.

 

[M1k3H]

Second-home stamp duty fees have a massive impact on your upfront costs too.

Yes. We had a chance late 2020 when we were remortgaging to not have pay second home stamp duty (partner not on mortgage at the time, so was going to buy the flat in her name only), but Covid made things too uncertain employment wise, so chose not to go ahead.

P.S. we are not married, and partner is now on mortgage.

Now something I will also need to take into account..

 

[chrcoluk]

I recently had a boiler issue, and I wanted to make sure I got a gas boiler replacement, I asked one of the managers to pass on my offer to subsidise the cost.

A week or so later, there was no progress and heard from handy man all of the office were still fidgeting on the cost, considering electric panel heaters etc. and I did let in an electrician as well so it was clear the direction they were going on.

So I texted my LL direct, told him I want to speak to him direct and two days later he rang me back, we came to an agreement, and he gave me what I wanted in return for a much longer tenancy agreement, I forgot to mention I wanted the rent frozen, but he froze it anyway, so it does show if a tenant and LL work together things can be ok, I do wonder how often middle men are the problem, and its a shame letting agents are so common place. The money I am putting in is less than even one year's rent increase would be, so I think I have done well out of it, and his capital expense has been reduced.

 

[kindai]

I recently had a boiler issue, and I wanted to make sure I got a gas boiler replacement, I asked one of the managers to pass on my offer to subsidise the cost.

A week or so later, there was no progress and heard from handy man all of the office were still fidgeting on the cost, considering electric panel heaters etc. and I did let in an electrician as well so it was clear the direction they were going on.

So I texted my LL direct, told him I want to speak to him direct and two days later he rang me back, we came to an agreement, and he gave me what I wanted in return for a much longer tenancy agreement, I forgot to mention I wanted the rent frozen, but he froze it anyway, so it does show if a tenant and LL work together things can be ok, I do wonder how often middle men are the problem, and its a shame letting agents are so common place. The money I am putting in is less than even one year's rent increase would be, so I think I have done well out of it, and his capital expense has been reduced.

If you are a good tennant (which sounds like you are) LL's will usually jump at the oportunity to keep you in place and happy.

 

[alchal]

Moving into my partners soon so at a crossroads with what to do with my property.

Bought it for 69k now valued at 85-90k and has 38~ left on the mortgage.

Going rate for a two bed in this part of town is 650-750 a month so tempted to become a landlord, mainly for a pension income later on as as we could have the to let house paid of in 10 years tops.

Or sell the place and into a savings or pay a large sum of the other house of and be mortgage free in a few years.

 

[JonRGV250]

I’d sell it quick before the government set capital gains tax at 40%, or rent it and get hammered by tax each and every way.
Good luck either way.

 

[swillsy]

I'd rent it out in that situation - rents are going up all the time whereas house prices are pretty stagnant at the moment. Labour were keen to roll out the tougher renters rights but are back peddling now as it's become obvious what the side effect of that would be long term. Although whacking the money in the bank and getting the interest at the moment is also EZ - win-win!

 

[chrcoluk]

Looks like there is a way round the court back logs, and costs? The main reason given for LLs opposing S21 changes.

New property ombudsman

A new ombudsman will offer a fair and impartial resolution process for disputes, avoiding expensive court proceedings.

 

[Tom_ed1987]

Moving into my partners soon so at a crossroads with what to do with my property.

Bought it for 69k now valued at 85-90k and has 38~ left on the mortgage.

Going rate for a two bed in this part of town is 650-750 a month so tempted to become a landlord, mainly for a pension income later on as as we could have the to let house paid of in 10 years tops.

Or sell the place and into a savings or pay a large sum of the other house of and be mortgage free in a few years.

Unless you're very very sure you want to be a landlord (& it doesn't sound like you do) and have many good quality reasons for doing so, i'd sell it and save yourself the headache.
The days of it being somewhat of a no brainer for regular people to stumble into being accidental landlords is firmly over. That option is now maxing your ISA and buying Biotech/semiconductor shares & funds

With a property of that value the barrier to re-entry (stamp duty) isn't that great so it's not like you will be pricing future you out of your potential pension investments either.

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

So I'm just absolutely dumbfounded with whats going on in the rental market.

As some of you are aware I have a few BTL that make up most of my pension . One of my great tennants has given notice as they have managed to save and get on the housing ladders , they have been with me since 2019 and the deal was I only ever increased their rent by my maintenance cost increase each year, I'm a leasholder with permission to sublet . So I think it's gone up £150 a year ( not a month ) in that time . Their notice letter thanked me and said that f I had increased by market value each year they would never have gotten on the ladder - good luck Dave .

So now being semi retired and more time on my hands 2 days ago I marketed the property for rent again on Right Move through an internet based portal called Open Rent . The response I have had within 24 hours is nothing short of staggering - 102 requests for viewings and 6 different propospective tennants leaving a holding deposit . I've now paused the add and refunded all the holding deposits ( credited towards first month's rent not a fee ) and I'm slowly working through the emails .

Now either prior estate agents i have used have either not been passing on enquiries to me or pre screening them as I never had anywhere near thus amount before. I think it was probably the former.

Or I suspect my suspicious are true that things have changed so much for Lanlords with Goverment intervention that rental stock is now so low that demand is totally off the scale !