The law and break/rest time and call centres

fini · 27 May 2006 at 23:43

not only does it say 'period', but it says uninterupted so that's one break of no less than 20 mins.

Give me a few mins and I'll look some stuff up for you

EDIT:

GALLAGHER and others v ALPHA CATERING SERVICES LTD (t/a Alpha Flight Services) said:
The tribunal also held, however, that routine increases and decreases of activity occurring naturally in the daily and weekly cycle are not "surges of activity" within the meaning of reg. 21(d) and so do not exclude the protection of reg. 12(1). The tribunal further held that periods of downtime of not less than 20 minutes do not qualify as rest breaks....

The "activities" referred to in reg. 21(c) as involving the need for continuity of service or production are those of the worker, not those of the employer. There is no reference to the employer in either reg. 21(c) or Article 17(2)(1)(c) of the Working Time Directive from which its provisions derive. No doubt the activities of the worker are the activities of the employer in law, but the focus is on the activities of the worker rather than the employer...

A "rest break" is an uninterrupted period of at least 20 minutes which the worker can use as he or she pleases. A period of downtime where, as in the present case, the worker remains at the employer's disposal cannot be a rest break. The worker must also know at the start of a rest break that it is such. A period of downtime cannot retrospectively become a rest break only because it can be seen after it is over that it was an uninterrupted period of 20 minutes.

fini

Dolph · 27 May 2006 at 23:50

fini said:
not only does it say 'period', but it says uninterupted so that's one break of no less than 20 mins.

Give me a few mins and I'll look some stuff up for you

fini

It is worth noting, however, that he was allocated a rest break that he has admitted he forgot to take...

He was offered his allocation, he didn't take it at the appropriate time. That's not something that can be blamed entirely on the company.

LeperousDust · 27 May 2006 at 23:57

Berserker said:
Agreed - it's really not worth getting yourself attention as a potential trouble-maker, no matter how frustrated you may be. It's best just to either get on with it or move on.

I suppose you're right. Not long left, i;m just not the type of person to take stuff like this, i know people get walked over in jobs, it's just her attitude today was awful for some reason.

Dolph said:
It is worth noting, however, that he was allocated a rest break that he has admitted he forgot to take...

He was offered his allocation, he didn't take it at the appropriate time. That's not something that can be blamed entirely on the company.

I hold my hand up to missing the break, my argument is that i could have sneaked off unknowingly, or logged my phone off and sat there so it looks like i'm working and had my missing half an hour. The call centre monitoring here is awful and they wouldn't notice. But thats not the point, i didn't want to inconvinience them by not being ready to take calls, so i asked when was it best for me to take it. The respone i got really was just shocking.

As i said i'm not entirely sure where i stand as i was allocated a break i didn't take. I don't mind arguing my case, but only if i know i'm in the right.

Cheers Piggy, i hope i get this sorted out somehow, the place is a joke.

//Edit:
Cheers fini, that looks good, but i'm still not sure about me missing the break i would have been given?

Berserker · 28 May 2006 at 00:00

Dolph said:
It is worth noting, however, that he was allocated a rest break that he has admitted he forgot to take...

And therein lies the problem. If an employee decides not to (or forgets to) take a break, then (to the best of my incredibly limited knowledge), the employer is not obliged to force them to take the break, or compensate them for not taking the break.

And, if that's correct, then quite simply you don't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid.

fini · 28 May 2006 at 00:15

EDIT:

reading here it looks like, unless you argue that it was not possible for you to take your break because you were on a call, you're pretty much stuffed.

fini

LeperousDust · 28 May 2006 at 00:21

fini said:
At a guess I would say you'd be entitled to part though not all of your break as you were partly responsible for missing it (they should have said).

I wouldn't have argued if she had even said i'm only allowed 15 min's later on. Any break would have done really! It was the succinct no and the 5 and a bit hours of staring endless at a screen that drove me up the wall.

fini said:
I'd thus say that they were contributorily negligent for your failure to obtain your s12 WTR rights. I can't actually find any cases that back this up though (issues relating to one single lunch break don't usually make it to court).. which I know is unhelpful.

fini

No, no I understand, I dont plan on taking this to court either

. I'm just not a fan of being bent over because I don't know my rights. I doubt i can say we were both at fault, as it would be completely impratical for a team leader to tell people when to go on their breaks and/or remind them if they aren't on them.

//Edit: I wouldn't be on a call for 30 mins, well very unlikely, but i know for a fact i wasn't just loads of short calls (between 20 seconds and 2 minutes). I just lost track of time. Looking out for my breaks isn't a favourite past time of mine, it also makes the day drag even moreso.

Morba · 28 May 2006 at 02:07

first of all i would be asking what the hell your realtime resource department is playing at. especially if it is an outsourcer!
unless you were on call throughout the break period, i cannot believe that someone did not tell you that you should be on a break!

adherence to schedules is a major thing (im amazed about what piggy says, agents allowed to choose when to take the breaks!) for most call centres, especially customer services.

Morba · 28 May 2006 at 02:08

LeperousDust said:
//Edit: I wouldn't be on a call for 30 mins, well very unlikely, but i know for a fact i wasn't just loads of short calls (between 20 seconds and 2 minutes). I just lost track of time. Looking out for my breaks isn't a favourite past time of mine, it also makes the day drag even moreso.

surely you have something that can tell you, act as an alarm?

Bri · 28 May 2006 at 09:29

The team leader was being an arse, if it's that busy then he should have been checking people were going for their breaks at the correct time.

You were entitled to your 30 min lunch & should have taken it.

As a manager in a contact centre, I would have let you take your break when you had realised. Of course, if you were taking your breaks at incorrect times consistently, then I would need to address that separately.

LeperousDust · 28 May 2006 at 12:31

Bri said:
As a manager in a contact centre, I would have let you take your break when you had realised. Of course, if you were taking your breaks at incorrect times consistently, then I would need to address that separately.

This is probably part of the problem, loads of people have been spoken to about break adherence. It was made well known that we were to take breaks on time. That was on Friday, I don't like what they do, but I’ll get on with it. So I took my first break (which I really do hate the most) on time, and then I was half an hour out on my second lunch break. We usually go on breaks in teams which means we don't need to personally track our breaks, but for some reason my rota is different to everyone else's (I’m starting 8:30 when my whole team are on 9:00 and 10:00 starts so none on my breaks line up either). So it was just up to me alone to sort my breaks out. Normally someone will notice the time and get us all out.

There are no alarms or reminders our call centre is very much in the dark ages. I’ve worked in a few and this is probably the least technical. That might be my problem I’m just not used to the computer tell me when to breathe.

Either way looks like I'll just have to take what I've got coming, because by law looks like I was in the wrong. Meh

LeperousDust · 29 May 2006 at 20:50

Result, had my meeting today they basically backed down and are not taking the matter any further. Went in there with a nice response to every possible question she gave me. Sorted anyways

Only 3 more hours to go on my 14.5 hour shift too. Things are looking good!

Big Spender · 29 May 2006 at 21:01

i work for a government call center. i start at 930, 1st breaks at 1115-1130. lunch is at 115-215. 2nd break is then at 345-4. then finish at 6. 8 1/2 hour shift. but were expected to take 10 mins at the most at any other time as comfort breaks occur.

Smackhead · 29 May 2006 at 22:25

Standard 8 hour shift for me

Start work at 9am
Break at 2pm for 36 mins
Finish at 5pm

And the funny thing is that aint illegal because we can eat and drink whatever at our desks and go on as many personal breaks as we want but as long as there sensible.

Garp · 29 May 2006 at 23:16

Hmm.. my new company seems really nice so far as call centres work is concerned, ableit I'm not actually working in the call centre area (much higher up in the troubleshooting / responsibilites end of things.) I've spent a couple of days working at two different levels of the support work though, with another couple of days at thirdline due somepoint in the next couple of weeks.

Lunch breaks are rota'd, but the team leader is responsible for making sure people get off on their breaks on time, and there is slack for delays caused by long phone calls. Each line of support has a target for number of calls answered in a day and average length of time callers were waiting for an operative to be available... however these targets are pretty flexible, they're not expected to meet them all the time every day, just be in the rough ballpark. All phones use a VOIP system which the supervisors monitor, and produces accurate information so it can be easily seen that, say, the reason why one call wasn't answered in xx minutes was due to every operative being busy on existing phone calls. Supervisors are working quite closely with their teams so they can see quickly if anyone is taking the mick over breaks / lunch / toilet breaks etc.