The life and times of UPO 69, my 1968 Pontiac Firebird.

Soldato
Joined
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Location
SE England
Finally got around to taking a few proper pictures of my car. It's probably about time that I made a decent thread about it anyway.

It's a 1968 Pontiac Firebird, one of the first generation of F-body cars from General Motors.

Here it is, as it stands at the moment:

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... and for those who haven't heard it before, it sounds like this:


I'll be putting more details and updates in here as we go along but if anyone's got any questions feel free to fire away. Just thought I'd get the ball rolling, as it's something I've been meaning to do for a while.
 
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Amazing, like that a lot :D

Love a bit of old school Pontiac, what size engine is that running 6 litre?

Thanks. It's got a 6.6-litre (400ci) Pontiac V8.

Originally the output would have been 330bhp and 430lb.ft. The 0-60mph sprint would have been dispatched in around six seconds, it'd do the 1/4 mile in 14.2 seconds at 100mph and the top speed was about 120mph.

Some factory adverts quote as low as 5.5 seconds to 60mph but I feel that was probably done on a very cool day, down a slight slope, with very sticky tyres. :p
 
What sort of mpg do you get out of it ?

At the moment it runs quite rich, with sooty black plugs, so I get around 10-12mpg. Driven as gently as possible. :D

That should climb to about 15mpg once I've sorted the jets out.

Fuel injection is on the cards in the near future though, which would hopefully see that climb to more like 18-20mpg. Much more reasonable.
 
You say 'original' output, but what's the actual output of this beast? :p

Edit, and I hope you drive it with your loud shirt half un-buttoned, chest wig blowing in the breeze and medallion swinging left to right as you swagger out to the car each day?

If I had any chest hair, maybe. :D

The engine's been fairly extensively modified. It's got:

- +30 overbore
- Keith Black forged pistons
- Eagle H-Beam steel rods
- Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminium cylinder heads
- Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminium intake manifold
- Comp Cams roller rocker conversion
- Comp Cams XR276HR performance camshaft
- Doug's hot-coated tubular exhaust manifolds
- Performance exhaust system
- HEI distributor with MSD trigger assembly
- MSD Streetfire HEI ignition system with inbuilt rev limiter
- Summit Racing ignition leads
- NGK R plugs
- Edelbrock 600cfm four-barrel carburettor (for the time being)
- Holley carburettor heat shield and spacer
- Adjustable fuel pressure regulator and gauge
- Competition Moroso sump with increased capacity
- Alloy performance radiator with integrated transmission cooler
- Mickey Thompson rocker covers
- Aftermarket PCV system
- Aftermarket fasteners
- Uprated chromed alternator. Worth at least 30bhp.

When the fuelling is sorted it should be cranking out somewhere in the region of 450bhp and 500lb.ft.

When I've checked over a few other things it'll be going down the local rolling road to see what it's actually making.

Originally it had a 750cfm Barry Grant Speed Demon carburettor but I removed it as I was having nothing but problems with it. The Edelbrock is just to get it up and about so I can get used to it and enjoy it. :)

Voila:

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Here it is with the old 750cfm carb, not long after I bought it.

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:)
 
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Purchase price if I made be so bold as to ask?

Looks great, turns a few heads when out and about right? :)

Less than it was probably worth, if that makes any sense. There's only a handful in the country. The DVLA puts the total number of '68 Firebird coupes here as three, but no doubt there are others out there. I know the whereabouts of two others, at least.

Mine was originally advertised at £9,000, when I saw it:

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It sounded too cheap. Usually these go for around £15,000 in good condition, if not more. They're rapidly appreciating as people are moving away from the more commonly known Mustangs and Camaros, because the prices of those have just got silly.

There was a reason for it being priced so low though - there was a lot wrong with it. Nothing overly major, that stopped it being driveable, but enough to put off most buyers and drive the price down.

Because the build of the car had effectively stopped two thirds of the way through, the rest of it had been thrown back together. It all still needed setting up, tightening and lots of finishing.

Putting it all right, if you couldn't do the work yourself, would cost quite a substantial amount. The major stuff would be easy to account for and price up but the odd jobs like refurbishing the rear light clusters and wiring could prove costly and time consuming.

Fortunately I don't mind doing work like that and had budgeted for fixing the larger faults, so I could get on with using the car.

To give you some idea of how costly these things can get there was another '68 for sale at the time I was looking at this. It was priced at £10,000 and looked in good order, in the pictures, but lots of things about it caused me concern.

After I bought mine, I went down to my local specialist and - low and behold - on the ramps was the very same one. The chap had bought it and the engine had disintegrated, the suspension and brakes were found to be lethal, and the bottom half of the car was made from filler. Easily spending another £10,000 on putting it back on the road, without dealing with the vast majority of bodywork issues.

Eep.

Think I got the better deal, especially when you consider all the money that had been spent on uprating mine. Still, plenty of odd jobs left to be done.
 
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I think I've asked before, but can't remember the answer. How do the gearboxes work on these, are they full auto slushboxes or something a little different?

This one is a 'built' TH400 three-speed automatic. Practically indestructible and ideal for dealing with the high levels of torque.

It is just a conventional automatic, although this one has a high-stall torque convertor. Basically imagine slipping the clutch for a little longer to allow the revs to rise more when moving off and you've got how it works. It allows the engine to really get going and helps avoid it bogging down. A transmission cooler integrated into the radiator stops the fluid from overheating.

Mine shifts faster and firmer thanks to a modified valve body too. Nothing overly aggressive though, it's a street car after all.

Topping it all off is a Hurst shifter. The action differs somewhat from a conventional shifter. To go from park to neutral you have to pull up on the trigger assembly and pull the stick to reverse. To engage neutral you have to then push the stick down, into the floor, and pull it back. At this point it then functions like a normal shifter and you can move up and down through the gears as you desire.

For racing, however, it offers a ratchet mode. In neutral, push down on the stick and pull it back into drive and down to 1st. This engages the ratchet mode which allows you to bang through the gears, with a single push engaging the next gear, and stops you missing any shifts - i.e. going from 1st to drive by mistake.
 
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A friend is into his Camaros, and mentioned sometimes the best way into ownership of one is to buy someone elses project, which by the sounds of it you roughly did, and got the pricey upgrades for little outlay, but knew you'd need lots of finishing time to make the rest come together.

Still dreaming of a a similar era truck Apache/S10 etc etc here :)

Look forward to hearing how this goes for you. Few more photos of the interior?

That's what I thought at the time. I really wanted to build something up but it's so much cheaper if you let someone else spend all the money then pick it up as a going concern afterwards. Obviously it varies depending on the car you're looking at but it was certainly the case here.

Admittedly I'd still like to build a car from the ground up but when things like this cost quite a lot anyway, and high-end performance parts aren't cheap, I realistically didn't have the budget for it - nor the inclination to spend that much. Then you have to consider the time and space aspects of working on a long-term project like that. This was, at that point, the best choice for me.

I'm not a great fan of things you can't actually use either, so wasn't keen on ending up with something that was going to need a vast amount of work to simply get it driveable.

This is the interior, not long after I got it in September last year. Still needs some tidying up but it's all there and I have the missing bits of trim.

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Cheers :D

When I bought it there were three major problems that needed sorting:

- The rear differential, despite being new, made a horrendous groan when you lifted off the throttle. It also leaked.

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- It ran but not very well. It was also hilariously rich, so much so that your eyes would sting at some points due to unburnt fuel and fuel being blown back out of the carburettor.

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- There was an oil leak from the rear main seal on the engine, which left a few minor drops on the drive.

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The rear differential was easily fixed. I got it rebuilt by the local specialist, who found that the inner bearings had been hammered in. This had damaged the load-bearing surfaces, leading to the noise. You could see the imprints of each roller on the surface, so they must have clobbered it pretty hard. A new rear seal stopped the leak.

Originally the Firebird would have had, I think, a 10-bolt axle. Mine came with a stronger 12-bolt rear axle fitted with custom axle shafts, upgraded fixings and retainers and an Eaton Posi limited slip differential. Should withstand the power without any problem at all, as it's claimed to be good for upwards of 600BHP.

Back after its first trip to the workshop:

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Getting it running properly was a little more involved. With nothing known about the engine build the cam timing and ignition timing was checked and found to be fine.

I didn't know what the compression ratio was but I had the feeling that it was probably quite high and as a result the spark was struggling. An MSD Streetfire ignition system was installed, boosting the spark strength and also adding a limiter. This helped but the fuelling was still all over the place.

So, a new Edelbrock carburettor was bolted on in place of the old Barry Grant unit. It's vastly improved things and the car now starts and runs very easily. With a rated flow of 600cfm it's probably not big enough but it lets me get used to the car and avoids any lean situations or bore wash. It'll be replaced in the future with either fuel injection or a larger carb, once things have settled down.

Before:

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After:

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The oil leak I was prepared to put up with. Although I like my cars to be dry underneath, changing it out meant dropping off the sump and removing the rear main cap. Because it only dropped a few small spots from time to time, it wasn't a real issue.

Some weeks later, after some spirited driving, the cabin promptly filled with blue smoke. D'oh. The drip of oil was now a deluge and it was pouring straight onto the headers. I relented at this point and drove it straight to the workshop.

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I'd previously ordered an upgraded rear seal, made from modern materials, along with some more oil and a new modern sump gasket which would hopefully fix the problem and mean I'd never have to think about it again.

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With the car handed over to my mechanic, who has proper lifts and a dry environment to work on the car, he set about sorting it out. He rang me up a few days later to tell me that the engine already had the modern seal installed. A moment of panic ensued, as I wondered what had failed. Had the block cracked? He put my mind at rest almost instantly. Whoever had worked on it previously had installed the aftermarket seal...

... but they'd fitted it back to front. Didn't make a very good seal, as a result. :D

The exhaust manifold was also "modified" at this point as previously it'd been touching the steering gear.

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I've done quite a lot to it so far as well. I've rebuilt the rear light clusters, removed a cheapo rear amplifier, subwoofer and speakers, sorted a lot of the wiring, replaced all four headlamps, repaired the indicator stalk, adjusted the tracking, installed a fuel filter, fitted some new detail parts, properly fitted the door glass and fixed the mechanisms, repainted the boot, installed a PCV system, fitted an extinguisher, freed off the heater controls, fixed the door handles and things like that.

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Still plenty to do mind, but mostly just odd jobs to tick along with as and when I get the time. :)

Tempted to nickname it Snowbird - these were the conditions that I took it out for its first proper drive in:

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:D
 
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These are the next things to fit:

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An OEM front spoiler to help improve stability and a rear strut brace to strengthen the rear suspension. I'm not sold on the front spoiler yet, will have to mock it up to see what it looks like.

The engine in the Pontiac is solid mounted to prevent it breaking free from its mounts and to improve chassis rigidity. Fitting the brace should help further strengthen the shell and I'd like to think that it'll have a few handling benefits as well, but we'll see.

Also managed to track down a picture of the car when it was being originally built up. It's come a long way.

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Totally solid. It's not as noticeable as you'd expect, you know. The engine's quite smooth but there is a bit of a buzz and vibration at idle. On the move it's OK.

You can feel it when you stamp on the throttle though, damned thing tries to lift its nearside front wheel off the ground. :D

I did wonder what negative effects, if any, a solid mounted motor may have on a car's structure and powertrain. The general consensus, however, seems to be that you'll get a little more vibration and that's about it.

Asked my mechanic about it and his response was "Well, at least you know it's not going to go anywhere." :D

I was initially concerned that fitting the rear strut brace could have an adverse affect by causing the twisting force through the shell to move somewhere undesirable or weak but I don't think that's going to be an issue, although any input is appreciated.
 
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His was in a dark heavy metallic green, running a full steel flipfront, Chevy 383, tunnel ram, twin double-pumpers, ridiculously high stall converter that used to make it impossible in traffic :D and it used to run 11's at Santa Pod in the early 80's, where we used to spend most weekends. Oh, and I remember it used to overheat quite a lot :D

That sounds like a monster, a fast one at that.

Can't say mine suffers from any overheating though, fortunately. Nice big alloy racing radiator keeps it relatively cool, helped by a big ol' mechanical fan and shroud.
 
Put a few more detail parts on today. Suspect I'll be getting packages like this for a while yet.

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Must say, I'm very impressed by the quality of these reproduction parts. Refreshing not to have to "adjust" new parts to fit, especially given my previous experience with some shoddy replacement components.

The first thing to fit was a new rear-view mirror.

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The old had suffered after 44 years and gone cloudy:

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... and the view with the new one fitted. A vast improvement:

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Next up was the passenger side seatbelt assembly. The Pontiac's MOT is coming up at the end of next month so everything needs to be in order. The spool on this belt was playing up and wouldn't retract cleanly.

A complete new belt and retractor was the easiest way of getting the part I needed and meant that I'd have a few spare bits if need be.

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The retractor is only fixed with a single bolt so it didn't take long to change it over.

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Voila, one fully working seatbelt. Magic!

I also had a pair of fender braces to fit. These mount between the inner wings and radiator support structure, with the aim of reinforcing the front end and reducing any twisting or flex.

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These were missing when I bought the car, which always puzzled me somewhat. When I came to fit them, however, it rapidly became clear why.

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You can see that in the bottom-left corner of the picture my car has an external oil filter assembly fitted, which currently isn't connected. This interfered with where the fender brace would sit, so presumably the previous owner mounted it without checking it would clear the braces.

No matter. Simply remove the offending article!

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I've no use for the external filter yet as I don't have a suitable adaptor for the oil pump housing. I will reinstate it when I get around to fitting an oil cooler as well, though.

That out of the way, the braces simply bolted into place.

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I was quite pleased to find that they feel remarkably well located, as you can rock the car up and down by grabbing hold of them.

At a later date I'd like to upgrade to Precision Coachwork's fender braces as they're a tidier solution and more neatly finished: http://www.ridetech.com/store/1967-69-camaro-stainless-steel-fender-brace.html

Lastly, I picked this up off eBay last week and it arrived about ten minutes ago - hence the quick and shonky picture.

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It's a 750cfm "Quadrajet", the kind of carburettor that the car would have had when it was new. They can support quite heavily tuned engines so I've also picked up a book to help me tweak it to suit the Pontiac. I'm hoping that it'll be a much better match than the current Edelbrock carburettor and will deliver more power, improved economy and a smoother throttle response.

I've ordered a new Malpassi Filter King external fuel filter and pressure regulator assembly as well, to replace my temporary inline filter and regulator setup. Should help tidy up the engine bay no end and will be a safer and more precise way of metering the fuel flow.

Hopefully I'll be able to fit the Quadrajet and get the Firebird running with it straight away, as it's just come off a 454ci Chevrolet motor.

At least that's the idea...
 
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I'm impressed with the "GM Restoration Parts", I assume this is due to the huge classics market in the US?

Yea. This is effectively a Camaro underneath as well, so there is a lot of aftermarket and OEM support for it.

This is such an epic car.

I was talking to InvaderGIR the other day about how I'd love '68 Fastback bare shell and build it from the ground up.

But then I saw how much Mustangs had appreciated, and quickly put the idea to bed. Even for a non runner rusted to oblivion you're looking at 8-10k easily :eek:

Dude, I know you lurk somewhere in the South East, would love to come and see this at some point in the not too distant future, possible? :)

Will bring the SLR of course.

That's one reason why I went for a Firebird - they're on the up now, following the other period muscle cars, rather than commanding a mental price already.

You can still get a really nice period car if you deviate from the usual choices though, so it's worth looking around. You can even find one of the prime choices for good money if you dig hard enough. Takes time though.

I'd be more than happy to meet up, hopefully there'll be something on soon to take it to anyway. I've just a few more things to do before it hits the show circuit in earnest.
 
This weekend's task list:

- Fit rear Hotchkis strut brace.
- Adjust steering box again.
- Fit new transmission filter and sump gasket, change trans fluid.
- Check security of indicator switch assembly fix.
- Fit new fuel pressure regulator and filter.
- Fix dash illumination. An MOT item now so it needs to work properly, seems I've a dead short in the main cluster.
- Maybe get the wheels balanced.
- Fit rubber stops for bonnet and boot lid.

Think that's about it for now. Maybe some light de-rusting and painting too. :)
 
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