Caporegime
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 28,300
- Location
- Boston, Lincolnshire
Erm. James Rodriguez? Real Madrid make Man UTD look like mice when it comes to overpaying for players historically.
The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
Erm. James Rodriguez? Real Madrid make Man UTD look like mice when it comes to overpaying for players historically.
What about him?
You mean the same James Rodriguez that had just been one of the best players at the World Cup, World Cup golden boot, widely considered to be one of the hottest prospects in world football. That James Rodriguez?
Fair to say Real Madrid didn't overpay for Rodriguez, shocking example.
Look at recent transfers from United for overpaying, Pogba being a perfect example. Di Maria? Schneiderlen? Fellaini? Depay?
Out of interest I started to look to see whether anyone attempts to keep data on overpaid transfers, bit of a pinch of salt but:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28984274
http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/08/figur...ndow-premier-league-biggest-culprits-5380976/
http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2016/155/en/
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 28,300
- Location
- Boston, Lincolnshire
There are lots of world cup stars that do not go for that kind of money or like Rodriguez flop after the world cup. Davor Suker was fantastic in 98 yet didn't cost an arm and a leg. Also Madrid dwarf United for expensive flops. Even when you include the likes of Veron and Di Maria.
Rodriguez hasn't flopped though, he played plenty of games in the two seasons after signing, he was dynamite in the first season there as well. Not sure why he hasn't played as much this season, seems to be more of a system issue than his ability.
Both clubs have had their share of flops over the years, Real certainly don't dwarf United as far as recent flops are concerned.
Top 4 of the EPL you're probably right, but could sneak in through the Europa League? Have to fancy United Vs any of the teams left in.
Last edited:
The comparison stands, at the time he got the contract he was playing awful, the start of a decline of a great player, but that's another argument. Yet he got a bumper pay rise to sell shirts because he his a huge name known across the world, in some ways a brand, but again, it's a different argument. In a era when huge wages mean an even bigger transfer fee £100,000 a week isn't all that much at the top flight, at a top club, and it is sickening. If Lingard was a foreign player bought for £20mil his wages wouldn't be an issue in slightest
His wage shouldn't be an issue to anyone other than Lingard, his agent and Ed Woodward. It's a ridiculous amount of money but it's even more ridiculous that people moan about it. And so what if fellaini was bought for a transfer fee? Of course it's comparable, is he not a footballer? Is he not in the same squad? Is he not an employee of Manchester United? Jesse Lingard is in no way a world beater, but he's a very good player that came through the ranks, and in a much better team he would still be a major part of the squad. Alex Ferguson played a bit part player in Ji Sung Park in big games away from home over much more creative players, because he never stopped running and closing down opponents, just like Lingard, when he left the club he was rumoured to be on £75,000 a week, and that was 5(ish) years ago. Where was the outcry? There wasn't oneNot one bit reflective of ability? So what are they reflective of then? Being EnglishWhy stop at 100K if talent has nothing to do with it, as I said above 500K would seem fair.
Fellaini was signed on 150K a week as part of a transfer wasn't he? A rather large transfer at that. Not even remotely comparable. If he was signed on 50K a week, played average, then tripled his wages with a contract extension then maybe he could be brought into the discussion.
Lingard isn't even that young, he's 24, it's unlikely he's going to significantly improve past his current ability. You're not paying for potential here.
He's being singled out because it's a joke.
Not a chance, we can't even break down Bournemouth or WBA at the moment. We've got no chance against Lyon or Ajax, even Celta Vigo!
The point is the reason Fellaini is on 150K a week is because that was negotiated as part of a rather large transfer, he hadn't kicked a ball for United yet, comparing his salary to Lingards is pointless because they're two completely different scenarios. I'd question whether Lingard is a 'very good player' hence why I feel the contract is ridiculous.
As for Park, if we were having this discussion 5 years ago i'd be questioning that salary as well, if that's indeed what he was on.
Those teams are more likely to attack than Tony 'Anti football' Pulis. You might be pleasantly surprised.
I welcome to your opinion, even I disagree completely, after all that's what football is all about. It would be a pretty boring if we all left the ground agreeing all the way home! Enjoyed the debate but it pointless carrying on as we're never going to reach an agreement.The point is the reason Fellaini is on 150K a week is because that was negotiated as part of a rather large transfer, he hadn't kicked a ball for United yet, comparing his salary to Lingards is pointless because they're two completely different scenarios. I'd question whether Lingard is a 'very good player' hence why I feel the contract is ridiculous.
As for Park, if we were having this discussion 5 years ago i'd be questioning that salary as well, if that's indeed what he was on.
I wish you were my manager anyway, you don't think someones salary should be based on their ability to do their job..... i'd have a field day
Those teams are more likely to attack than Tony 'Anti football' Pulis. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 9 Mar 2006
- Posts
- 58,005
- Location
- Surrey
Yeah we have far more chance against teams outside of the UK that don't understand that putting ten behind the ball stops us completely.
How does it stand exactly ? Regardless of his form at the time he is one of Uniteds best ever players...its ridiculous to compare them.
100k a week for Lingard is laughable, try and justify the sum all you want but theres no getting round how stupid it actually is. He is a bang average winger.
To put it into context, reports online suggest Leroy Sane, Emre Can, Nolito are on a lot less and Sadio Mane is on a similar wage. Lingard has scored 5 league goals in his career and United have lumped him on 100k a week, absolute madness.
All those players you mentioned came to the current clubs with a large transfer fee attached, Jesse Lingard came through the ranks, costing nothing. Think of that way.
Manchester United debt has increased £71mil over the course of the season and no one blinks an eye lid, yet Jesse Lingards wage raise gets you all emotional...
Andros Townsend got bought by Crystal Palace last summer for £13m , its debatable whether he is better than Lingard
Jordan Ibe was transferred for a similar amount (admittedly a few years younger but even still)
By the time Lingard is likely sold, a new even bigger tv deal is likely to have been signed off which means that transfers will get even more ridiculous than they already are, so instead of £10-£15m+ its likely to be £15m-£20m+ and the wages wont be an issue either. So Utd should have gained £5m-£10m at a minimium (and given these deals are heavily incentivised - by starts / title wins etc - as majority of clubs do nowadays, Utd will probably profit even more)
Bigger problem is the lump that is Fellaini than anything given to Lingard
Of course wages will be an issue and wages is the reason why you can't just compare Lingard's ability to the players you've mentioned and say they're therefore they're worth the same amount.
Townsend and Ibe are likely to be earning half of what Lingard is now getting. The difference between £50k per week and £100k per week over a 5 year contract is £13m - that's the entire transfer fee for Townsend. If you're saying Lingard is of similar quality to Townsend then the fact that he's now going to cost any buying club an extra £13m in wages means he's pretty much worthless in terms of any potential transfer fee.
Your whole argument is wishful thinking tbh. Whenever Utd or any other club in a similar position to them try to sell a player that's not good enough for them, it's incredibly difficult for them to get a transfer fee that reflects their true value because the wages they're on will not be matched. And bigger TV deals aren't something new, they've been getting bigger ever since the PL began - that didn't stop Utd having to practically give players away in the past though. Look at Schneiderlin, despite a 50% increase in TV money, Utd couldn't even get their money back on him when he was sold.
If Lingard doesn't make it at Utd then they'll struggle to shift him, just like they've struggled with any other player that's flopped over the last 20 years. He's getting £100k per week not because Utd think he's worth it but because they have to keep wages proportional to that of the highest earners for the sake of squad harmony.
Townsend and Ibe are likely to be earning half of what Lingard is now getting. The difference between £50k per week and £100k per week over a 5 year contract is £13m - that's the entire transfer fee for Townsend. If you're saying Lingard is of similar quality to Townsend then the fact that he's now going to cost any buying club an extra £13m in wages means he's pretty much worthless in terms of any potential transfer fee.
Your whole argument is wishful thinking tbh. Whenever Utd or any other club in a similar position to them try to sell a player that's not good enough for them, it's incredibly difficult for them to get a transfer fee that reflects their true value because the wages they're on will not be matched. And bigger TV deals aren't something new, they've been getting bigger ever since the PL began - that didn't stop Utd having to practically give players away in the past though. Look at Schneiderlin, despite a 50% increase in TV money, Utd couldn't even get their money back on him when he was sold.
If Lingard doesn't make it at Utd then they'll struggle to shift him, just like they've struggled with any other player that's flopped over the last 20 years. He's getting £100k per week not because Utd think he's worth it but because they have to keep wages proportional to that of the highest earners for the sake of squad harmony.
Why on earth would united expect to get what they paid for schniderlin after flopping for the season?(it wasnt even that far out) Also Lingard is on close to 75k not 100k. Lingard is a valuable homegrown squad player, not to mention united through and through, people bemoaning his contract are morons.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...kh-mkhitaryan-says-still-adjusting-english/?x
If you read the post I was replying to, Frank was suggesting that Lingard's fee would automatically increase as TV contracts get bigger. I was using Schneiderlin as an example - despite a massive increase in TV money his fee dropped. As I said, it has and always will be the same for any player that doesn't make it at Utd - anywhere they go can't or won't pay the same wages and as a result you'll receive a smaller transfer fee than had the player been signed from a club paying less wages.
And whether Lingard is on £75k or £100k per week, the point still stands. If Frank is saying those players are of similar ability, the difference in wages will directly effect the transfer fees. Whether it be £30k, £40k or £50k per week more, that over a 4 or 5 year contract will be factored in by the buying club when making their offer to sign him.
As for City deserving stick - they do and have received plenty. In fact it would appear to me as if Guardiola has received far more criticism than Mourinho has which I find strange. Both sides finished on level points last season, both spent similar amounts - the difference between the 2 is Guardiola has come in and made radical changes to City and signed younger players, all of which will take time to adjust. Mourinho on the other hand knows the league like the back of his hand and made ready made signings that you'd expect to kick on from the off.