The Mustang handling thread
- Thread starter Ex-RoNiN
- Start date
FakeSnake said:
on that statement alone does it not make you inherently an armchair expert?
definitely not, because I was just repeating something that had been said. I dont believe everything I see on tv or read on the net but it was the only figure I had. I only like to assert authority on things I am knowledgable of....which isnt that much! 
[TW]Fox said:
Hi there
Where did I say this?
That remark was made by "Butters", link here:-
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17758080&page=3&pp=30&highlight=c4s
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
HI there
Right some facts.
A standard Mustang GT is an OK car. You can pick one of these up in good condition, no more than 2 years old with 25,000 or less miles for £15,000 - £20,000 if you search on Pistonheads, Ebay or Autotrader.
So for less than 20k you've got yourself a V8 Muscle / Sports coupe with 300 horses as standard and over 300Lb/Ft of torque and a car thats gonna make you grin guaranteed. Handling wise as standard they are an OK car, but nothing particular amazing. In stock form don't expect M3 handling, simple as that, but as you will see there are many upgrades on offer at very low cost and easy to fit.
Anyway once you have got your car you can start with modifications. So lets begin:-
N/A Power Upgrades
1. CAI along with Remap for UK RON 98 £400 delivered, expect 50BHP and 30Lb/Ft along with much better throttle response.
2. Long Tube Headers £1000 delivered or less with DE-Cats, expect 20BHP and approx 30Lb/Ft plus a great sound.
3. You can then go with a catback system, but it won't add if any power but will make it sound rather special. Cost circa £500 delivered.
4. Can also add lightweight under drive pulleys, add charge motion plates which together can give a furth 10 or so horses along with much quicker throttle response. Expect to pay £500 tops, but these mods become redundent should you add a supercharger.
Basically the CAI, Remap and Long tuber headers will get you to circa 375BHP and 370Lb/Ft, not bad for the money.
Total spent on N/A Power = £2000 Delivered (375BHP/360Lb/Ft)
Brakes
1. Best option is the Shelby GT500 brake kit. It comes with Brembo 4 piston calipers, same as featured on EVO 9's and many other cars. Brembo 14" rotars, front and rear Ferodo pads. Many places sell in the USA for circa £500 area, just gotta search.
2. There are other kits but the Shelby kit is a great direct fitment no hassle option that gives great improvement. Afterall the Shelby brakes were designed for a much heavier and more powerful car.
Total Spent on brakes = £500 - £750.00
Suspension
1. Change the dampers/shocks - Tokico D-Spec Adjustable Shocks and Strut Kit - These will set you back around £400 delivered and completely transform the car. These are superior to the shocks that come on Saleen and Roush supplied cars.
2. Springs - Improve the look due to lower ride height and further handling improvements. However you don't want to lower any more than 1" in total or you will put the roll centre out too much and actually make handling worse. Steeda Ultra Lite Springs - About £150ish tops!
3. Top Mounts - Steeda Upper duty top mounts - These give more feel/communication on the steering and let you adjust front camber to dial out understeer. £150 tops!
4. Front Anti-Roll bar - Steeda front swaybar - Transform steering response and front-end control with this front anti-roll bar. £100 !!
5. Rear Anti-Roll bar with HD Links - Rear swaybar with HD links - Firmly plant that rear end, great handling improvement. Only £200 !!
6. Steeda Strut Brace and G-Trac brace - Do as they say. The pair will cost no more than £100 !! Available on www.steeda.com
7. Lower Billet Control arms - Steeda Lower Control Arms - Help prevents wheel hop, improve grip. £150.00
8. Upper Control arm - Steeda adjustable upper control arm - Get the pinion angle set perfectly or adjust for better handling or better off the line traction. Further helps reduce wheel hop greatly improving traction. £100 !!
9. Steeda adjustable panhard bar and brace - Greatly improve the rear live axle with these, transforms handling and improves the car on bumpier surfaces. About £150.00
10. Thats about it, I did the above and the transformation was awsome. You can do even more - http://www.steeda.com/products/
Total spent on suspension setup = £1500.00
So basically £4000 will give you a decent power increase, improve your stopping power considerably and completely transform the way the car handles. I did all the above on my Mustang, except because mine was a Saleen it had their own shocks, springs and front anti-roll bar so I obviously saved some money there. However the Tokico D-Spec dampers and Steeda springs are better than the Saleen and Roush offerings.
Remember folks all Saleen and Roush do to the standard Mustang GT is simply fit their own shocks, springs and front anti-roll bar. Plus as an option you can specify larger brakes and rear anti-roll bars as options. In this state of tune they handle on par with an M3, or basically more or less anyway. I know at least 2 owners who have got Saleens that are completely standard and they previously had owned E46 M3's and they both agree that the Saleen is on par in the twisties. Also Saleen fit huge 20" wheels with decent rubber, this obviously helps with traction but is not so great for handling or performance due to the weight. Wheras Roush go for a more lightweight 18" wheel which is the best solution, but 20" do look good on a Mustang.
Now obviously the above additional Steeda parts I've listed further improve the handling and predictability of the car. They also aid greatly with traction, so should you go supercharged you won't have any issues with power delivery unless your running very little wheels and skinny tyres.
With all the above you will definetely have a better handling car over an M3, however remember you can mod an M3 too. However I think everyone here will agree the E46 M3 is a good handling car, so if a Mustang can handle as good and better that also means the Mustang can be made into a good handling car for very little money and little effort/work.
Then for you guys who want to go supercharged, simply visit www.teamjdm.com
These guys will sell you a complete bolt-on packaged for about $6000 that will see any Mustang GT over 500BHP reliable and safe. Then pretty much anything will struggle to keep up with you, should it be a straight or twisties because you will have a very sorted car.
Now considering I did all the above to mine, it was indeed worth every penny. The car was transformed and so much better than the E46 M3 I drove in the twisties. Now I own an M3 CSL which does indeed handle better than my Saleen did in both dry and wet conditions. For the road I doubt you could get a Mustang upto CSL handling standards, but on the race track where road noise, harshness is not an issue then you most probably could. However in saying that I am sure if a CSL was purely for track use then you could even improve the CSL further too.
Put simply, the Mustang may have a live axle, but it handles OK. If you spend a little money it can be made to handle very well. EVO magazine themselves have seen the benefits of simple suspension mods and even Clarkson raved about the Roush.
A Mustang is a lot of car for the money, simply great value.
With all the above suspension tweaks a Mustang GT would weigh circa 1550kg, maybe a little less. With a supercharger added, thats gonna close on towards 1600kg.
However it is possible to go further and for about a further £1500 of spending you can get weight down to sub 1450kg on a Mustang by buying replacement suspension parts etc.
You can also fit short shifter, to improve gear change and let me tell you they make night and day difference. Saleen shifter is good, but MGW make the best short throws for Mustangs.
The only issue with a Mustang is that to drive them fast you gotta push them, because they don't inspire huge confidence. Kinda like a 911 really, but once you press on in the car you find they handle great when modified. Difference with an M3 is its not only a good handling car but its also confidence inspiring and good on the limit. Wheras a Mustang is not quite so confidence inspiring but is controllable at the limit too should you push that hard.
Right some facts.
A standard Mustang GT is an OK car. You can pick one of these up in good condition, no more than 2 years old with 25,000 or less miles for £15,000 - £20,000 if you search on Pistonheads, Ebay or Autotrader.
So for less than 20k you've got yourself a V8 Muscle / Sports coupe with 300 horses as standard and over 300Lb/Ft of torque and a car thats gonna make you grin guaranteed. Handling wise as standard they are an OK car, but nothing particular amazing. In stock form don't expect M3 handling, simple as that, but as you will see there are many upgrades on offer at very low cost and easy to fit.
Anyway once you have got your car you can start with modifications. So lets begin:-
N/A Power Upgrades
1. CAI along with Remap for UK RON 98 £400 delivered, expect 50BHP and 30Lb/Ft along with much better throttle response.
2. Long Tube Headers £1000 delivered or less with DE-Cats, expect 20BHP and approx 30Lb/Ft plus a great sound.
3. You can then go with a catback system, but it won't add if any power but will make it sound rather special. Cost circa £500 delivered.
4. Can also add lightweight under drive pulleys, add charge motion plates which together can give a furth 10 or so horses along with much quicker throttle response. Expect to pay £500 tops, but these mods become redundent should you add a supercharger.
Basically the CAI, Remap and Long tuber headers will get you to circa 375BHP and 370Lb/Ft, not bad for the money.
Total spent on N/A Power = £2000 Delivered (375BHP/360Lb/Ft)
Brakes
1. Best option is the Shelby GT500 brake kit. It comes with Brembo 4 piston calipers, same as featured on EVO 9's and many other cars. Brembo 14" rotars, front and rear Ferodo pads. Many places sell in the USA for circa £500 area, just gotta search.
2. There are other kits but the Shelby kit is a great direct fitment no hassle option that gives great improvement. Afterall the Shelby brakes were designed for a much heavier and more powerful car.
Total Spent on brakes = £500 - £750.00
Suspension
1. Change the dampers/shocks - Tokico D-Spec Adjustable Shocks and Strut Kit - These will set you back around £400 delivered and completely transform the car. These are superior to the shocks that come on Saleen and Roush supplied cars.
2. Springs - Improve the look due to lower ride height and further handling improvements. However you don't want to lower any more than 1" in total or you will put the roll centre out too much and actually make handling worse. Steeda Ultra Lite Springs - About £150ish tops!
3. Top Mounts - Steeda Upper duty top mounts - These give more feel/communication on the steering and let you adjust front camber to dial out understeer. £150 tops!
4. Front Anti-Roll bar - Steeda front swaybar - Transform steering response and front-end control with this front anti-roll bar. £100 !!
5. Rear Anti-Roll bar with HD Links - Rear swaybar with HD links - Firmly plant that rear end, great handling improvement. Only £200 !!
6. Steeda Strut Brace and G-Trac brace - Do as they say. The pair will cost no more than £100 !! Available on www.steeda.com
7. Lower Billet Control arms - Steeda Lower Control Arms - Help prevents wheel hop, improve grip. £150.00
8. Upper Control arm - Steeda adjustable upper control arm - Get the pinion angle set perfectly or adjust for better handling or better off the line traction. Further helps reduce wheel hop greatly improving traction. £100 !!
9. Steeda adjustable panhard bar and brace - Greatly improve the rear live axle with these, transforms handling and improves the car on bumpier surfaces. About £150.00
10. Thats about it, I did the above and the transformation was awsome. You can do even more - http://www.steeda.com/products/
Total spent on suspension setup = £1500.00
So basically £4000 will give you a decent power increase, improve your stopping power considerably and completely transform the way the car handles. I did all the above on my Mustang, except because mine was a Saleen it had their own shocks, springs and front anti-roll bar so I obviously saved some money there. However the Tokico D-Spec dampers and Steeda springs are better than the Saleen and Roush offerings.
Remember folks all Saleen and Roush do to the standard Mustang GT is simply fit their own shocks, springs and front anti-roll bar. Plus as an option you can specify larger brakes and rear anti-roll bars as options. In this state of tune they handle on par with an M3, or basically more or less anyway. I know at least 2 owners who have got Saleens that are completely standard and they previously had owned E46 M3's and they both agree that the Saleen is on par in the twisties. Also Saleen fit huge 20" wheels with decent rubber, this obviously helps with traction but is not so great for handling or performance due to the weight. Wheras Roush go for a more lightweight 18" wheel which is the best solution, but 20" do look good on a Mustang.
Now obviously the above additional Steeda parts I've listed further improve the handling and predictability of the car. They also aid greatly with traction, so should you go supercharged you won't have any issues with power delivery unless your running very little wheels and skinny tyres.
With all the above you will definetely have a better handling car over an M3, however remember you can mod an M3 too. However I think everyone here will agree the E46 M3 is a good handling car, so if a Mustang can handle as good and better that also means the Mustang can be made into a good handling car for very little money and little effort/work.
Then for you guys who want to go supercharged, simply visit www.teamjdm.com
These guys will sell you a complete bolt-on packaged for about $6000 that will see any Mustang GT over 500BHP reliable and safe. Then pretty much anything will struggle to keep up with you, should it be a straight or twisties because you will have a very sorted car.
Now considering I did all the above to mine, it was indeed worth every penny. The car was transformed and so much better than the E46 M3 I drove in the twisties. Now I own an M3 CSL which does indeed handle better than my Saleen did in both dry and wet conditions. For the road I doubt you could get a Mustang upto CSL handling standards, but on the race track where road noise, harshness is not an issue then you most probably could. However in saying that I am sure if a CSL was purely for track use then you could even improve the CSL further too.
Put simply, the Mustang may have a live axle, but it handles OK. If you spend a little money it can be made to handle very well. EVO magazine themselves have seen the benefits of simple suspension mods and even Clarkson raved about the Roush.
A Mustang is a lot of car for the money, simply great value.
With all the above suspension tweaks a Mustang GT would weigh circa 1550kg, maybe a little less. With a supercharger added, thats gonna close on towards 1600kg.
However it is possible to go further and for about a further £1500 of spending you can get weight down to sub 1450kg on a Mustang by buying replacement suspension parts etc.
You can also fit short shifter, to improve gear change and let me tell you they make night and day difference. Saleen shifter is good, but MGW make the best short throws for Mustangs.
The only issue with a Mustang is that to drive them fast you gotta push them, because they don't inspire huge confidence. Kinda like a 911 really, but once you press on in the car you find they handle great when modified. Difference with an M3 is its not only a good handling car but its also confidence inspiring and good on the limit. Wheras a Mustang is not quite so confidence inspiring but is controllable at the limit too should you push that hard.
Gibbo said:HI there
Right some facts.
A standard Mustang GT is an OK car. You can pick one of these up in good condition, no more than 2 years old with 25,000 or less miles for £15,000 - £20,000 if you search on Pistonheads, Ebay or Autotrader.
So for less than 20k you've got yourself a V8 Muscle / Sports coupe with 300 horses as standard and over 300Lb/Ft of torque and a car thats gonna make you grin guaranteed. Handling wise as standard they are an OK car, but nothing particular amazing. In stock form don't expect M3 handling, simple as that, but as you will see there are many upgrades on offer at very low cost and easy to fit.
Anyway once you have got your car you can start with modifications. So lets begin:-
N/A Power Upgrades
1. CAI along with Remap for UK RON 98 £400 delivered, expect 50BHP and 30Lb/Ft along with much better throttle response.
2. Long Tube Headers £1000 delivered or less with DE-Cats, expect 20BHP and approx 30Lb/Ft plus a great sound.
3. You can then go with a catback system, but it won't add if any power but will make it sound rather special. Cost circa £500 delivered.
4. Can also add lightweight under drive pulleys, add charge motion plates which together can give a furth 10 or so horses along with much quicker throttle response. Expect to pay £500 tops, but these mods become redundent should you add a supercharger.
Basically the CAI, Remap and Long tuber headers will get you to circa 375BHP and 370Lb/Ft, not bad for the money.
Total spent on N/A Power = £2000 Delivered (375BHP/360Lb/Ft)
Brakes
1. Best option is the Shelby GT500 brake kit. It comes with Brembo 4 piston calipers, same as featured on EVO 9's and many other cars. Brembo 14" rotars, front and rear Ferodo pads. Many places sell in the USA for circa £500 area, just gotta search.
2. There are other kits but the Shelby kit is a great direct fitment no hassle option that gives great improvement. Afterall the Shelby brakes were designed for a much heavier and more powerful car.
Total Spent on brakes = £500 - £750.00
Suspension
1. Change the dampers/shocks - Tokico D-Spec Adjustable Shocks and Strut Kit - These will set you back around £400 delivered and completely transform the car. These are superior to the shocks that come on Saleen and Roush supplied cars.
2. Springs - Improve the look due to lower ride height and further handling improvements. However you don't want to lower any more than 1" in total or you will put the roll centre out too much and actually make handling worse. Steeda Ultra Lite Springs - About £150ish tops!
3. Top Mounts - Steeda Upper duty top mounts - These give more feel/communication on the steering and let you adjust front camber to dial out understeer. £150 tops!
4. Front Anti-Roll bar - Steeda front swaybar - Transform steering response and front-end control with this front anti-roll bar. £100 !!
5. Rear Anti-Roll bar with HD Links - Rear swaybar with HD links - Firmly plant that rear end, great handling improvement. Only £200 !!
6. Steeda Strut Brace and G-Trac brace - Do as they say. The pair will cost no more than £100 !! Available on www.steeda.com
7. Lower Billet Control arms - Steeda Lower Control Arms - Help prevents wheel hop, improve grip. £150.00
8. Upper Control arm - Steeda adjustable upper control arm - Get the pinion angle set perfectly or adjust for better handling or better off the line traction. Further helps reduce wheel hop greatly improving traction. £100 !!
9. Steeda adjustable panhard bar and brace - Greatly improve the rear live axle with these, transforms handling and improves the car on bumpier surfaces. About £150.00
10. Thats about it, I did the above and the transformation was awsome. You can do even more - http://www.steeda.com/products/
Total spent on suspension setup = £1500.00
So basically £4000 will give you a decent power increase, improve your stopping power considerably and completely transform the way the car handles. I did all the above on my Mustang, except because mine was a Saleen it had their own shocks, springs and front anti-roll bar so I obviously saved some money there. However the Tokico D-Spec dampers and Steeda springs are better than the Saleen and Roush offerings.
Remember folks all Saleen and Roush do to the standard Mustang GT is simply fit their own shocks, springs and front anti-roll bar. Plus as an option you can specify larger brakes and rear anti-roll bars as options. In this state of tune they handle on par with an M3, or basically more or less anyway. I know at least 2 owners who have got Saleens that are completely standard and they previously had owned E46 M3's and they both agree that the Saleen is on par in the twisties. Also Saleen fit huge 20" wheels with decent rubber, this obviously helps with traction but is not so great for handling or performance due to the weight. Wheras Roush go for a more lightweight 18" wheel which is the best solution, but 20" do look good on a Mustang.
Now obviously the above additional Steeda parts I've listed further improve the handling and predictability of the car. They also aid greatly with traction, so should you go supercharged you won't have any issues with power delivery unless your running very little wheels and skinny tyres.
With all the above you will definetely have a better handling car over an M3, however remember you can mod an M3 too. However I think everyone here will agree the E46 M3 is a good handling car, so if a Mustang can handle as good and better that also means the Mustang can be made into a good handling car for very little money and little effort/work.
Then for you guys who want to go supercharged, simply visit www.teamjdm.com
These guys will sell you a complete bolt-on packaged for about $6000 that will see any Mustang GT over 500BHP reliable and safe. Then pretty much anything will struggle to keep up with you, should it be a straight or twisties because you will have a very sorted car.
Now considering I did all the above to mine, it was indeed worth every penny. The car was transformed and so much better than the E46 M3 I drove in the twisties. Now I own an M3 CSL which does indeed handle better than my Saleen did in both dry and wet conditions. For the road I doubt you could get a Mustang upto CSL handling standards, but on the race track where road noise, harshness is not an issue then you most probably could. However in saying that I am sure if a CSL was purely for track use then you could even improve the CSL further too.
Put simply, the Mustang may have a live axle, but it handles OK. If you spend a little money it can be made to handle very well. EVO magazine themselves have seen the benefits of simple suspension mods and even Clarkson raved about the Roush.
A Mustang is a lot of car for the money, simply great value.
With all the above suspension tweaks a Mustang GT would weigh circa 1550kg, maybe a little less. With a supercharger added, thats gonna close on towards 1600kg.
However it is possible to go further and for about a further £1500 of spending you can get weight down to sub 1450kg on a Mustang by buying replacement suspension parts etc.
You can also fit short shifter, to improve gear change and let me tell you they make night and day difference. Saleen shifter is good, but MGW make the best short throws for Mustangs.
Finished work then?
Nice post.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 31,182
I gotta say Gibbo took me out the other week (on a day it was unusally dry!) and the 'stang seemed to handle pretty damn well! More than held it's own doing some speed around roundabouts and some tight left handers (as I recall).
This is coming from a man who drives a well-modded JDM Teg
My only criticism of the 'stang is its weight, but then again everything else (bar a Lotus!) seems heavy compared to a 1070kgs Teg
Did I mention the power?
This is coming from a man who drives a well-modded JDM Teg
My only criticism of the 'stang is its weight, but then again everything else (bar a Lotus!) seems heavy compared to a 1070kgs Teg
Did I mention the power?
R124/LA420 said:Finished work then?
Nice post.
Hi there
Yup!
Just got back as well after a huge detour on the way home in the CSL. Seemed to have just waxed another £20 on petrol.
Basically find a Mustang GT for 15k, spend 4k and you've got quite an incredible car. Need more power then just add supercharger and wham bam, great handling, stupid stupid power and silly quick.
What I did fail to mention previously is changing the shocks, spring and anti roll bars all has huge benefits and will bring the car too M3 handling levels. Remember a Mustang and M3 pretty much weigh the same too. However when you start adding further parts as in the list above you will get more road noise and more suspension noise, nothing bad but you can hear it, especially on bumpier surfaces. Wheras obviously the CSL handles better and does not have such downsides.
Still there are not many sub 2 year old cars, that for less than 20k including modding can perform, handle, stop, reliable, cheap to run like a Mustang. Plus carry four in comfort should the need arise along with a huge boot.
I do miss the Mustang because it was a true character of a car and every part of driving it was grinn inducing. The CSL is great, but in a different kind of way.
JediFragger said:I gotta say Gibbo took me out the other week (on a day it was unusally dry!) and the 'stang seemed to handle pretty damn well! More than held it's own doing some speed around roundabouts and some tight left handers (as I recall).
This is coming from a man who drives a well-modded JDM Teg
My only criticism of the 'stang is its weight, but then again everything else (bar a Lotus!) seems heavy compared to a 1070kgs Teg
Did I mention the power?
Hi m8
Glad you enjoyed the car, yes it weighed 1550kg area but considering that it was very nimble for its weight and size plus like you mentioned the power.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 31,182
Gibbo said:Hi m8
Glad you enjoyed the car, yes it weighed 1550kg area but considering that it was very nimble for its weight and size plus like you mentioned the power.
Agreed, did damn well considering it's a Heavyweight not a Flyweight
Just to stick my "tuppenth" worth in, if American muscle is so bad handling, how come in the Classic & Historic Touring cars championship you nearly always see the Ford Falcons, Chevy Camaro's and various Mustangs creaming Lotus Cortinas, Mini Coopers, Ford Capri's, various Escorts etc, not only on the straights but also through the twisties.
The lap record for Classic Touring cars is held by either a Ford Mustang or a Camaro Z28 at virtually every circuit in Britain. So it does not matter what type of circuit, fast or technical, the American Muscle rules supreme.
Here you can cancel out any effect modified suspension etc has, as all cars can have similar modifications, so it is obviously just down to the inherent good handling of classic American Muscle
The lap record for Classic Touring cars is held by either a Ford Mustang or a Camaro Z28 at virtually every circuit in Britain. So it does not matter what type of circuit, fast or technical, the American Muscle rules supreme.
Here you can cancel out any effect modified suspension etc has, as all cars can have similar modifications, so it is obviously just down to the inherent good handling of classic American Muscle
The Mustang GT has now made my list of cars I will consider around the £15k mark when I finish Uni next year. Thanks Gibbo, archive this thread please mods so people can read it later on in life, and can be shown when this debate ever comes up again.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 18,017
- Location
- Shakespeare’s County
JediFragger said:
Thats a passenger experiencing grip, unless your holding a steering wheel you cant quantify handling
That is handling summed up, how things feel near the limits, clearer you're
stating two cars that you have previously rated as similar handling are very much different at the limit which I find odd.
Jonnycoupe said:
Hi there
As daft as it sounds, for me what makes the CSL so much more confidence inspiring is the damn seats. Sounds stupid but they hug you and as such you don't move.
Problem with the Mustang was you slid about and as such I often found I was pushing my arm against the door to keep myself in place.
Obviously a set of proper seats would have done the car world of good.
The Mustang chassis is not as friendly at the limit as the M3's but the Mustangs limits were higher and even at those limits its not going to kill you and was still easily correctable on the steering and throttle. Just with the BMW its a little less snatchy and it also has a better safety net with the DSC system wheras the Mustang did not have a safety net such as traction system.
There is no doubt that the CSL handles better, these last few days I am really enjoying driving the car and keep finding myself on country lanes, its just so quick.
I saw a Mustang GT at work today - damn those are beautiful cars - although without the Mustang stripe it's naked! I have a Saleen mustang on my wish list for when I'm earning enough... just a beautiful car. Black with a grey or red stang stripe is a must!
Or maybe red/black.... gorgeous cars.
Or maybe red/black.... gorgeous cars.
Having said that if I had the money I'd kill for the new Shelby GT500 KR edition...
http://www2.uol.com.br/interpressmotor/noticias/item16920.shl
just amazing! I honestly think gt500s are the best looking cars in the world... at least the best in the 50k range...
http://www2.uol.com.br/interpressmotor/noticias/item16920.shl
just amazing! I honestly think gt500s are the best looking cars in the world... at least the best in the 50k range...