The Mustang handling thread

[Overlag]

What I believe Overlag was saying was that the kind of upgrade that Saleen/Roushe do on the GT would amount to £5k on a stock GT is performed independently (i.e. u upgrade suspension only on a stock GT in order to get to the same handling levels as Saleen/Roushe)

yup. i posted the link to the roushe stuff just as the posts got deleted (rightly so). Thats why i said "omfg £5k!!!!111one" it was the first kit with the new suspension parts, but also included the other bits and bobs from the first 2-3 stages of the kit didnt realise


people saying the suspension is "fine" for road legal speeds..... well so is a nissan micra or ford fiesta1.2?

from watching support races at brands hatch while waiting for the main events i will 100% support the fact that a standard mustang is no match for a car with "proper" rear suspension, however it often just retook the cars on the straights lol..... Id rather drive a car that was glued to the road through corners. Thats me, and nothing is going to change me.

 

[JRS]

from watching support races at brands hatch while waiting for the main events i will 100% support the fact that a standard mustang is no match for a car with "proper" rear suspension

What's a "proper" rear suspension?

Maccy/Chapman struts? Double wishbone? Multi-link? Semi-trailing arm?

None of the above would come close to working in the Mustang.

***edit***

If Ford wanted to build the Mustang solely for use on country lanes and road courses, they'd go to a full IRS. The old Cobra R had independent suspension in the rear if I remember right, and that was a pretty impressive car on a track. But given that most 'stang owners are buying the car for use on long, wide, mostly straight roads then it's a waste of money. And those that are buying the car for racing are mostly drag racing, so need the inherent toughness of the solid axle. Those that buy the car for road course racing will simply add better locating devices (e.g Watts linkage) to keep the axle in check.

 

[eidolon]

Or put another way, almost exactly the same as the E60 M5. And no-one knocks that for being a tubby land yacht

But look at the technology employed in the suspension in order to make the barge handle. Slightly different league to the Mustang don't you think?

 

[Overlag]

What's a "proper" rear suspension?

Maccy/Chapman struts? Double wishbone? Multi-link? Semi-trailing arm?

None of the above would come close to working in the Mustang.

lets see, there was a standard (almost) stang there that was almost last, and was lapped. there was also a stang that was slightly lowered and more planted at the rear... this car was in top 5 and managed to lap the other (brands hatch indy being only 1.2miles)

but, gibbo has already said the standard is "ok" (id say that's middle ground) and proved that my original 5k statement was WAAAAAAY overboard, because as i now know that was will full brake, and other roush improvements and not to mention overheads or whatever so roush make more profits. Gibbo posted what was needed to make his feel better on page1or2.


I totally stand corrected on the 5k figure, however the suspension is only "ok" (not good, not great) and a real x-stang driver said that, not me.

Hi there


In the GT4 European CUP the Mustangs seem to be leading the way.
http://www.gt4cup.com/

does that have standard suspension? I highly doubt it.

 

[JRS]

But look at the technology employed in the suspension in order to make the barge handle. Slightly different league to the Mustang don't you think?

This would be the same M5 that has to have the power limited when launching due to axle tramp, right?

Yes, it's a *slightly* different league. Despite my American car fanboyism I'd never claim the 'stang to be anywhere near as good overall as the M5. The two are pretty far apart in price and market....

***edit***

lets see, there was a standard (almost) stang there that was almost last, and was lapped. there was also a stang that was slightly lowered and more planted at the rear... this car was in top 5 and managed to lap the other (brands hatch indy being only 1.2miles)

but, gibbo has already said the standard is "ok" (id say that's middle ground) and proved that my original 5k statement was WAAAAAAY overboard, because as i now know that was will full brake, and other roush improvements and not to mention overheads or whatever so roush make more profits. Gibbo posted what was needed to make his feel better on page1or2.

Yes, the standard is okay. For road use. And probably alright for the odd pass up a drag strip. Anything other than that, and you start uprating.

Which is pretty much the raison d'être of the Mustang. It's a fairly inexpensive car with a tuneable motor that you can go to town on and personalise to make it do what you want it to do. And as you say, your 5k statement was, well, complete ********

 

[Overlag]

And as you say, your 5k statement was, well, complete ********

was using top gear as my information on roush.......

Overlag drops his head in shame.

 

[Gibbo]

does that have standard suspension? I highly doubt it.

Hi there

Yes both the GT3 and GT4 FR500 Mustang cars still have a live rear axle.

In fact the modifications to their suspension is just parts from the Ford catalogue and as such you can purchase these parts and put them on your own Mustang from the Ford catalogue.

I went with Steeda because in the US amongst owners they are regarded as superior quality to Ford parts but Steeda parts offer better road handling but will also perform on a circuit.



FR500 Specification

The FR500C features the following …

Ford Racing designed body, which has been seam welded, and Grand-Am approved roll cage that includes all the attachment points and enclosures specifically for racing.
Ford Racing 5.0L “Cammer R50” engine, which is mounted to a unique Tremec T56 transmission.
Ford Racing brake and suspension upgrades
PRICE -- $125,000
Engine
5.0L “Cammer R50”

Fuel Cell
Custom dual dry break fuel cell (20 gallons)

Wheels
Front – Fiske 18 x 10.0”
Rear – Fiske 18 x 10.0”

Dimensions
Wheelbase – 107.1”
Front Track – 62.8”
Rear Track – 63.0”
Dry Weight – 3100lbs.

Driveline
T56 six-speed transmission
Supercharged Cobra clutch kit

Brakes
Front – Brembo four piston
Rear – Ford Mustang (stock)
Master Cylinder – Ford Mustang (stock)
ABS – Ford Mustang (stock)

Front Suspension
Dynamic Suspensions – inverted struts
Three-way adjustable – high / low speed compression rebound
Ride height adjustable coil over
Urethane bushings
Adjustable anti-roll bar

Rear Suspension
Dynamic Suspensions – coil over dampers
Three-way adjustable – high / low speed compression rebound
Ride height adjustable
Three-link with panhard bar
Urethane bushings

Ancillaries
C&R aluminum radiator with integrated oil cooler
Ford Racing Performance Parts harness
Ford Racing Performance Parts exhaust system
Ford Racing Performance Parts high flow intake system



Encouraged by the first-year dominance of its 420-horsepower stock Mustang race car in the Grand-Am Koni Challenge Series Ford Motor Company has developed what it describes as the ultimate Mustang showroom stock race car. Code-named "Man Racer," the new 550-horsepower Mustang follows on the heels of the highly successful FR500C, also known as the "Boy Racer."

"Man Racer represents the reincarnation of the Trans-Am Mustang from the 70s, which was the most powerful showroom-looking pony car at the time," said Dan Davis, director, Ford Racing Technology. "This car has amazing output from a normally aspirated engine, and the chassis is specially tuned for high-speed performance and handling."

This concept racer is outfitted with Ford Racing Performance Parts and was featured in the October issue of Car and Driver magazine.

Engine
525-plus horsepower Ford Racing Modular 5.0L V8 (Dry Sump)

Fuel Cell
ATL custom 22-gallon – dual dry break

Wheels
Front – BBS (three-piece) 18 x 11.0”
Front tire – Pirelli 305/660-18
Rear – BBS (three-piece) 18 x 12.0”

Rear tire – Pirelli 305/680-18

Dimensions
Wheelbase – 107.1”
Front Track – 74.0”
Rear Track – 75.0”
Dry Weight – 3100lbs.

Driveline
Hollinger RD6-s six-speed sequential
Adjustable ratio gearbox mounted onto a T56 bell housing
QuarterMaster 5.5” triple plate metallic disc clutch
Ford 8.8” full floater rear axle

Brakes
Front – AP Racing two-piece six pot calipers
Front – AP Racing 378mm diameter x 32mm thick floating rotors
Rear – AP Racing two-piece four pot calipers
Front – AP Racing 330mm diameter x 27mm thick two-piece rotors
Master Cylinder – AP Hung Pedal Package w/ separate adjustable master cylinders

Front Suspension
Dynamic Suspensions – inverted struts
Three-way adjustable – high / low speed compression rebound
Ride height adjustable coil over
Adjustable caster / camber plate
Urethane bushings
Adjustable anti-roll bar

Rear Suspension
Dynamic Suspensions – coil over dampers
Three-way adjustable – high / low speed compression rebound
Ride height adjustable coil over
Three-link with panhard bar
Urethane bushings

Ancillaries
C&R aluminum radiator with integrated oil cooler
Ford Racing Performance Parts harness
Ford Racing Performance Parts high flow intake system




So yes the suspension setup on a FR500 GT4 Mustang is not a whole lot different than that on my Saleen, but the shell is more rigid due to seam welding and the FR500 cars only weigh about 1350-1400kg. It is possible to get a road going Mustang down to 1400kg but to do so will cost approx £2000 on top of everything I mentioned earlier and increase road noise.

My Saleen had similar suspension setup to the FR500 and the same Brembo brakes. Only disadvantage of my car was it weighed some 200kg more and was not N/A. Still the FR500's are winning the GT4 championship I believe and are not doing so bad in the GT3.

 

[Ex-RoNiN]

Gibbo, thank you very much for your contributions in this topic. It should definitely get archived as *the* reference for all the nay-sayers saying "Mustangs dont handle" It also serves as *the* definite guide for current & future 'Stang owners

Thanks for taking the time to type it all out after a hard day at work. It is very informative and in-depth

FakeSnake, awaiting pics eagerly

 

[[TW]Fox]

The V6 Mustang is like say a BMW 318i which most people here would consider pretty crap. Bottom of the range, underpowered, poor handling and very basic specification.

Although the 318i sucks, basic fundamental things like how good the chassis is show through irrespective of the model you drive - a 318i still handles well and is rewarding to drive.

Thats about all it is, though.

 

[Docaroo]

Hi there

Yes I got a good deal, I paid 26k for the car. Sold it recently for 33.5k which speaks volumes for the deal I got.

The car owed me just under 32k in total with all the mods I did on it, so I made a small profit on a modded car.

yeh another thanks to Gibbo for the Stang info - makes me want one so much more now hah...

26k that is a bloody amazing price - what a great buy! I know you said fitting the mods your self was easy... but that's all relative I guess... I'd love to be able to do that I've just never really bothered or tried. I'm quite handy with tools/instructions/etc so I reckon I could do it? How much experience did you have before you fitted all the parts?

P.S looked on the Roush stang and damn their paint jobs are cool - red especially

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Gibbo, thank you very much for your contributions in this topic. It should definitely get archived as *the* reference for all the nay-sayers saying "Mustangs dont handle" It also serves as *the* definite guide for current & future 'Stang owners

Racing car = grip and tailoring the car to make the driver as fast as possible by constant iterations to a known track.

Not much to do with handling in all honesty. Ironically people use 'it handles like a go kart' for a vairety of things yet go karts dont have suspension, maybe thats why they handle like big go karts, they have big solid axles.