**** The Official Google Pixel 2/Pixel 2 XL Thread ****

[sesevans]

According to Value Walk, there are three variants of the next Pixel and they are expecting the phones to drop in July.

The three Pixel 2 phones are reportedly carry the internal names of Muskie, Walleye and Taimen. Until now, esp including the Nexus line of phones, Google has limited itself to 2 releases rather than 3. Value Walk is talking about a budget friendly price for the Pixel 2.

Some new features are expected to include a camera which carries LED screens in a wrap-around display, no headphone jack, a USB-C port to attract gamers, a superior camera to the iPhone 7 Plus, better battery life and of course Android O pre-loaded (O = Oreo?).

Tempted?

 

[sesevans]

According to Value Walk, there are three variants of the next Pixel and they are expecting the phones to drop in July.

The three Pixel 2 phones are reportedly carry the internal names of Muskie, Walleye and Taimen. Until now, esp including the Nexus line of phones, Google has limited itself to 2 releases rather than 3. Value Walk is talking about a budget friendly price for the Pixel 2.

Some new features are expected to include a camera which carries LED screens in a wrap-around display, no headphone jack, a USB-C port to attract gamers, a superior camera to the iPhone 7 Plus, better battery life and of course Android O pre-loaded (O = Oreo?).

Tempted?

http://www.valuewalk.com/2017/05/google-pixel-2-release-date-specs/

 

[sesevans]

I think I will be holding on to my 6p for a while longer yet. Phones have hit a brick wall IMO, where any new features are gimmicky and pretty useless. Plus they demand a lot of money for it too.

I wonder if you have a view on VR? I am very excited about its potential. I expect to see many more apps and phones developed to support it.

More than 10 million phones are expected to be launched this year supporting Google Daydream, including Samsung's Galaxy 8 family and LG's flagship phones. There are already more than 150 apps supporting Daydream. And more than 10,000 360 degree videos posted on YouTube. Clearly as the original Pixel supports Daydream, the next Pixels will too. I will wish to keep up with this trend and a newer Pixel with better display (OLED wrap around?) and better Chrome OS support should help.

Add to the mix Google's recently announced Visual Positioning Service, and integrating it with GPS, should open a huge market for VR and AR applications. One immediate application was showcased at I/O where holding up your Tango-ready phone in a large store like Homebase or PCWorld Currys and instead of getting lost your phone guides you to the correct aisle and shelf where you want to find a particular item (indoor mapping made simple). Asus' Tango-ready Zen Phone AR, to be launched later this year, should attract attention too. This is just one of many possible applications.

For those who are visually impaired, audio interfaces paired with VPS could help them find their way around a lot better.

Smartphones "hitting a brick wall"? I think not.

 

[sesevans]

"I'm questioning the need for navigation aids in a shop. It's a classic example of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist."

I see great value for navigation aids in a shop. Also I do not agree with some comments that shops want a potential customer to simply wander around going "ooh" or "aah". Why? Because most people I know do not shop that way. Wandering around a shop aimlessly is the last thing I want to do. I have a specific shopping list (Google Home sets it up by simply a voice command that embeds it into my Pixel) and have no interest in shopping beyond this list. It is a waste of time. This is why people increasingly shop online.

But let's admit that we agree to differ on what a shop wants and what a shopper wants. There is still another huge problem that a navigation aid helps many people in shops. Here is a fact from the World Heath Organisation:

"285 million people are estimated to be visually impaired worldwide: 39 million are blind and 246 have low vision. About 90% of the world's visually impaired live in low-income settings. 82% of people living with blindness are aged 50 and above."

Just imagine what Visual Positioning Service could do to help visually impaired people! VPS, a critical component of Google Lens, is an audio-based interface that could help visually impaired people in so many situations, esp in large DIY shops and supermarkets.

I think this "problem" certainly exists.

 

[sesevans]

I have a couple more thought for the Nexus 2 wish-list:

More Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality built-in to the new smartphone. I may be one generation of Pixel too early (Pixel 3) but I can hope!

At I/O Google showcased the next generation of Daydream VR (the first generation was really an extension of Google Cardboard which I still enjoy using as it is compatible with any recent phone). The new generation of Daydream is a standalone device with no smartphone required. That is a big step up from the Samsung Gear VR. I really see Google wanting to dominate the world of VR and AR.

So now with the next Daydream you can share VR footage with friends, connect with others in apps like YouTube, and easily check notifications.

And the new Asus ZenPhone AR which is coming next month is a Tango phone that can operate as an AR phone as well as a VR phone (inserted into the current Daydream VR headset).

This is what I am really watching: HTC and Lenovo are coming out soon with the first standalone Daydream headsets (no phone required), powered with Qualcomm silicon. They will of course run all the Daydream VR apps currently available (more than 150) and will also have built-in "World-Sense" cameras that allow some room-tracking and movement. Again, these are stand-alone and not tethered to any other device like a smartphone or PC. The apps are likely to grow quickly beyond games, tours, wildlife, films, sport, etc.

So I believe Daydream and Tango will become a feature of future Pixel smartphones in that they will be VR and AR ready out of the box. Perhaps the next one, but almost certainly for the Pixel 3.

Anyone else excited about VR and AR on their phone? I believe the applications will be amazing and with Google's AI/deep-learning emphasis, I see a lot of growth ahead in new ideas on smartphones.

 

[sesevans]

Thinking some more on this holiday weekend about the next Pixel smartphone and considering the leap forward that Google achieved in displaying the next gen Daydream VR headset last week at I/O, I can't help but thinking that the Pixel 2 may well be offered in combination with the new standalone Daydream. Daydream 3 will not require a phone (like previous Daydream/Samsung/etc headsets) or PC (like the expensive Oculus Rift) and requires no cables. You are free to roam and getting into VR is as easy as picking up the headset and slipping it on, as the YouTube video describes.

One of the complaints I had with Daydream to date has been the weight of the device when it is strapped to my head. I felt that this limits the amount of time I can spend wearing the device. It is just too damn heavy. And the World Sense positioning tracker would seem to add to the experience.

As mentioned, I believe that Google will offer the Daydream 3 in some form of combo package with the Pixel 2. Anyone else interested in VR?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvyMoKI9zfg

 

[sesevans]

The Pixel and Pixel XL have OLED display screen, but not of the flexible/bendable variety. This could change by next year at the latest and perhaps this year if Google can secure a steady supply. One of the biggest frustrations with the Pixels was Google's inability to supply them in sufficient numbers to meet the huge demand. Many have posted here about the long lead times needed to obtain a Pixel. The inability to source OLED display screens was a major reason for the delays. Supplies were tight in 2016/2017 and continue to be.

About a fortnight ago, rumours were circulating that Google was prepared to make a 1 Trillion Korean Won (£ 750 million) investment in LG Display of South Korea, to assist them in making more OLED capacity to help meet Google's future Pixel needs. If true, Google would be in a better position to secure steady supplies. Already the Galaxy S8 uses Samsung Display OLED screens to make the left and right sides of the display flexible. I expect Apple iPhones in future to have flexible OLED screens. OLED screens are notoriously difficult to manufacture. If Google's investment in LG Display's expansion is true, it would represent about 25% of the total cost of LG Display's new plant.

I expect flexible screens with extremely thin bezels to feature prominently in future Pixels.

 

[sesevans]

Has sesevans admitted he works in the industry yet?

I do not work for the industry. I do not work in tech. But, just like you, a keen interest as a consumer in all things tech.

 

[sesevans]

Latest leaks on the Pixel 2 from Android Authority include:

1. They are hearing Pixel 2, Pixel 2 XL and the Pixel 2 XXL.
2. Pixel 2 XL screen size 5.6 inch display with an 18:9 aspect ratio, like on the LG G6. LG rumoured to be manufacturing the Pixel 2's.
3. A curved panel
4. Snapdragon 835 (or possibly the 836 chip set) supported by 4GB RAM and 128 GB storage.

https://androidcommunity.com/google-pixel-2-leak-spills-a-lot-of-important-details-20170611/

 

[sesevans]

Android Police saying today that they are confident it will be two phones, not three next generation Pixels.
They believe the Pixel 2 XL will actually be a larger Pixel 2.

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...probably-to-be-replaced-by-even-larger-phone/

 

[sesevans]

Latest leaks on the Pixel 2 from Android Authority include:

1. They are hearing Pixel 2, Pixel 2 XL and the Pixel 2 XXL.
2. Pixel 2 XL screen size 5.6 inch display with an 18:9 aspect ratio, like on the LG G6. LG rumoured to be manufacturing the Pixel 2's.
3. A curved panel
4. Snapdragon 835 (or possibly the 836 chip set) supported by 4GB RAM and 128 GB storage.

https://androidcommunity.com/google-pixel-2-leak-spills-a-lot-of-important-details-20170611/

Regarding point 2, further blog comments suggest that HTC is the manufacturer of the smaller Pixel 2 and that LG is the manufacturer of the larger Pixel 2. If true, that would be the first time that Google is choosing two separate OEMs for either a Pixel or Nexus launch. Speculation that Google is working with LG for the larger Pixel 2 due to better availability of display screens with LG. Pixel sales were constrained due to limited supply of the screens. Rumours that Google is investing in a new display manufacturing line at LG. Reading the trade press in Taiwan, it seems the new supply concern will be in NAND flash during the next 6 months. Diversifying OEMs may prove a smart strategy to help meet Pixel 2 demand:

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170613PD205.html

 

[sesevans]

"LG and Google are investing heavily in OLED." And yes, the original Pixel smartphones used OLED screens.

A deal between LG and Google is being discussed but I have not seen confirmation that the proposal has been finalised. It would seem to make a great deal of sense for Google to secure OLED display screen supply as this was the main bottleneck that caused Pixel phone demand to exceed supply in the 9 month period since the Pixel smartphones were released. LG and Google are also reportedly working on folding display screens.

I found this excerpt from a Korean business blog site called ET News, dated 9 April, 2017. It has been translated from Korean to English by Google Translate:

"1 trillion won is the amount to build one line to produce 6th generation small and medium sized flexible OLED. Google's facility investment proposal, which is not a purchase of a panel like this, is said to be a strategic relationship with LG Display. OLED is in short supply than current demand, and Google will secure priority and stabilize panel supply and demand. Google, however, does not require proprietary lines, such as Apple, that require specific technical specifications. LG Display is building 6G-generation flexible OLED production lines in Gumi E5 and Paju E6. The E5 is scheduled to start operation in the third quarter, which is slightly delayed from the original plan, and the E6 is scheduled to start operation in 2018. If Google and LG Display enter into a contract, the OLED for Google smartphone will be produced in Gumi E5."

LG has already invested 1.5 trillion Korean Won in E5 and 2.0 trillion Korean Won in E6. Google's investment would allow greater and faster scale-up.

 

[sesevans]

Are we really discussing a much bigger shift at Google? What is the big picture here from these apparent moves by Google to:

1. Invest in the supply chain? Possible investment in LG OLED display screen expansion to secure OLED supply for Pixel smartphones.

2. Move to integrate software and hardware? Design their own SOCs and CPU cores. Could Google's Deep Mind (AI/machine learning) help Google "learn" and iterate on chip design? Deep Mind has helped Google design its own TPUs (Tensor Processing Unit) for servers, so why not for Pixel and Chromebooks and VR headsets?

3. Remove driver control from Qualcomm and have control of the entire stack? Open chip set on ARM/Apple v Qualcomm lawsuit on Qualcomm royalty payments, Google Project Treble (master plan to speed up Android updates).

4. Chips, cores, design of hardware for more than smartphones and laptops? Smart home, self-driving sensors and LIDAR/Google building its own hardware in house including the sensor array that gives the autonomous vehicle's artificial intelligence all the information it needs to navigate safely and react to sudden obstacles or changing road conditions. Significant hiring by Google in hardware, chipsets, including recently the former head of Apple's in-house chip design team.

My sense is that we are seeing a huge move by Google to take on Apple at its own game. If Google succeeds, we will benefit greatly by their competitive moves.

 

[sesevans]

I also think they're bad been nothing exciting recently to make me want to upgrade my phone

Loss of headphone jack,
Static battery sizes : higher res screens : more efficiency = static
Gimmicks
Vr

Ugh nothing really to buy a new phone for

I am not basing my buying decision on leaks and rumours just yet as I expect more will emerge. I do know however that between the two supposed Pixel 2s, I would favour the larger Taimen (OLED display screen size 5.99 inches) with its slimmer bezels to the smaller Walleye (4.99 inch display) with bezels similar to the Pixel. The headphone jack issue is not such an important one for me. I do note that rumours suggest Taimen will have the headphone jack while Walleye will not, replaced by stereo speakers. While neither will have the dual camera, I think Google has shown that its ability to produce a great camera has been confirmed with the current Pixels. Otherwise similar specs between the Pixel 2s including a Snapdragon 835 CPU, 4 GB RAM and a faster clock speed on the Taimen at 2.45 GHz.

Stay tuned.

 

[sesevans]

My only issue with the pixel was it was outdated very quickly looks wise. Hope the pixel 2 does follow

The Google (GOOG, GOOGL) second-generation Pixel XL is expected to feature a curved back, a low-bezel AMOLED display manufactured by LG, and a "squeezable" frame allowing users to squeeze their phones to interact with the Google Assistant, according to Android Police, citing sources. The phone is also expected to feature a fingerprint scanner below the glass window at the top of the phone, a wide speaker grille and a front-facing camera.

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...ow-bezel-amoled-display-and-squeezable-frame/

 

[sesevans]

@sesevans mentioned it, but nobody really knows yet.

And following Android Police yesterday's leaked render of the Pixel 2 XL, I noticed XDA added some further possible features in their story today:

always-on ambient display features,
a variety of use cases for the phone’s purported squeezable frame,
a few different display profile options

 

[sesevans]

Because he works for them. Clever bit of hype building using forums.

Err, no. As I have said previously, I do not work for "them" and I am not in the industry. I am merely a keen tech fan and when if I have something to say about a technology or a feature I like, it seems fun to share my thoughts with others. Chill.

Like you, I am following the Pixel 2 closely and find some of the possible features exciting, including the "squeezable frame." We know this concept works as it is a feature of the recently launched HTC U11. Will Google expand on it and make it mainstream?

In theory the idea seems good. I like the concept of activating a shortcut or launching a specific app with a squeeze. Launching the camera or flashlight or Google Assistant with a pressure-sensitive, pre-calibrated squeeze are three ideas that come to mind. Or what about squeezing the phone to silence an incoming call? By including a squeezable frame means that the Pixel 2s can do away with any extra button on the screen, making the phone sleeker, allowing them to shrink the bezels. Building the squeeze into the internals of the phone means no extra bumps or bulk.

Bring on the 2's in October!

(I assume Google will launch the Pixel 2's the same month they launched the Pixel 1's).

 

[sesevans]

Ahh. For the Pixel it was the camera (and you might argue the build quality and maybe that it's stock Android, when almost no-one else does this... so not sure how thats copying?). Amazing. Stabilisation like no other too. As can be seen from Apple, it's not always new features that sell a phone, it's doing what they do, really well.

I too agree that the camera on the Pixel XL is superb yet expect this year to be a step up too, esp with the expected ditching of OIS to EIS to improve further low light photos and improve video stability and because of Google's big focus on AI.

I think the camera will really be an important feature as Google Lens gets introduced later this year. Google has talked a lot recently about being at an inflection point for vision and has this massive, second-to-none (I believe) ability with its machine learning to understand images and video. It seems logical to assume the better quality around the hardware and software supporting the camera, the better the result will be with using the camera for Google Lens, Artificial Reality, etc. While some may see AI as a gimmick on a phone, I see Google Lens as a solid potential product. Lens provides Google with a huge potential new platform to excite its users.

While other hardware features on the next Pixel will be important (water resistance, internal storage, a Snapdragon 836 vs expected 835 chip, etc), I see the potential for Google to tap into its years of experience and expenditure in visual search, Street View, mapping, machine learning and video development to focus our attention on the potential "wow" factor that a higher quality camera and its Lens related software can bring to the user.

Incidentally, I was surprised that Apple did not really focus so much on its Artificial Reality features yesterday (ARKit) which leaves an interesting opening for Google to differentiate itself at its launch of the new Pixels next month.

 

[sesevans]

I guess my only concern is the price. Is there a limit you guys would say 'no thanks' to? I paid £820 last year for the 128GB XL and still wonder if I should have. If they have a 64GB version at £800 or under, I'm probably a definite. If it reaches £900, I think I might pass.

I assume that the Pixel 2 XL will be the same or slightly more costly than last year's Pixel 2. Your price assumption therefore seems reasonable.

At £ 900, it would be less expensive than the iPhone X (announced starting price in USA of $ 999 is equivalent today to £ 757), but of course, we know that when a US price of $999 is announced, it is much higher here due to tax! And sure enough, I saw this quote in the UK press today: "Apple will release two versions, a 64GB version, which will start at £999, and a more expensive 256GB version for £1,149 - ushering in the era of the £1,000 smartphone."

I assume Google will watch the uptake (ie, pre-delivery demand) of the iPhone X here before it announces a price however. I assume that most people in the UK do not look at the total cost of ownership however because they buy phones on contract, unlike many buyers on this website who seem to pay cash up front. Many buy cars on finance, appliances on finance so I guess it might be relatively easy for Apple to get the UK carriers to come out with an attractive monthly price plan that probably competes with what we are all used to paying monthly for services such as high speed broadband/TV bundled services from BT or Virgin?

 

[sesevans]

Looks like its 4th October for the launch date of Pixel 2s and other products, which would be the one year anniversary of the original Pixel. This sign spotted in Boston, USA today:

https://9to5google.files.wordpress....ease.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=743&strip=all

** No Hotlinking **

Rumours of additional releases on 4 October point to Google Assistant powered headphones, a smaller Google Home and a Chromebook Pixel. Confirmation expected soon.