- Joined
- 26 Aug 2003
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- 204
if the problem is down to piracy, then why cant nvidia/ati install some kind of hardware drm into the graphic cards? Or intel/amd? Is has to be hard-wired into the hardware itself. Just a thought...
the pc demoless
- Thread starter renandstimpy
- Start date
So you upgrade your graphics card and all your games no longer work? Limited activation DRM is bad enough without tying it to one piece of hardware.
How is 1-2 hours arbitrary? I'm going on what a demo tends to provide, 8 hours is completely arbitrary. FPS will be to the lower end of that, RTS or similar will be towards the higher end. If you get it and try it out then there is absolutely no differentiation between 'pirated copy' and 'demo copy' in anything but your mind. After all if you downloaded a copy of Batman Arkham Asylum and got the free demo which offers maybe 30-60 minutes gameplay there is absolutely no difference assuming you bought the game afterwards or wiped it from your hard drive.
- Joined
- 26 Aug 2003
- Posts
- 204
Im just saying that in software, drm can be cracked, in some way or another, so it must be done in hardware. It has to start somewhere and your old games would still be compatible, but new games that support the hardware drm would obviously need the new hardware and in time, there would be no need for drm activation ****.
An earlier quote than I'd like, but the one that most fits my point. Frankly, there are very, very few franchises I would purchase without testing first, and only those which have proven themselves to be reliable in the past. Considering the recent price hikes for PC games, especially with DD versions, how can anyone justify laying out a fair chunk of money for a product on which they only have trailers and third-party reviews to judge? There is absolutely no reason to withhold first-hand experience of a product before an irrevocable purchase, and that this trend has coincided with the culling of the second-hand game market on PC comes as no surprise. There is no other motivation but profit, and to exploit the market in such a way is nothing less than disrespectful.
You're taking a situation farther than is necessary. I firmly believe that piracy figures have risen in accordance with the lack of playable demos - there are other factors, sure, but I doubt many people would disagree that it's a factor. Unfortunately, too many people hold the same views as you do - here is a thing that can lead to bad things, therefore this thing is bad. I'll hold my hands up to acquiring a game that grabs my interest from time to time, but never as anything more than a demo - and only for as long as a demo lasts. If the game is worth playing, I'll buy it. If it's not, I'll remove it. It's black & white for me, but it's a very different black & white for you - from your standpoint, I'm part of the cancer killing modern PC gaming. Yet I'm not the one buying release-date titles for silly money only to find out that I've funded yet another half-arsed console port, or that I'm contributing to Activision's progressive plan to subsidise an online experience, or that my cash is rewarding a big-name developer taking a series I loved back in the day and turning it into a generic, re-hashed imagination black hole skinned as a classic only to generate more cash. Perhaps you're not the latter either, but I for one am thankful that the law regarding piracy is lax enough to allow people like me to make an informed decision, instead of throwing my money at the big boys in the hopes that something their studio has crapped out the back door accidentally contains content that's worth the cash.
My solution is not to buy games at launch.
I first started getting wary of pre-ordering when EA started sneakily adding DRM to games and only saying anything about it a few days before launch. With recent games being extremely buggy with no demos and a lack of basic PC functionality, and some having bad DRM and activation issues I've given up preordering at all.
Now I wait for the user feedback before I consider buying a game, and I'll wait for a Steam sale if necessary. This has worked with Dead Space 2 for instance, which I'd love to play, but has ludicrous DRM, and EA have essentially washed their hands of the PC version by not releasing DLC, and still not fixing basic problems from the original game. I might pick it up in a Steam sale if the DRM is removed later.
In any case if you buy a game later you get a fully patched version, for a cheaper price, and often with all the DLC included. No need for a demo if you know exactly how good the game is and it's cheap.
I first started getting wary of pre-ordering when EA started sneakily adding DRM to games and only saying anything about it a few days before launch. With recent games being extremely buggy with no demos and a lack of basic PC functionality, and some having bad DRM and activation issues I've given up preordering at all.
Now I wait for the user feedback before I consider buying a game, and I'll wait for a Steam sale if necessary. This has worked with Dead Space 2 for instance, which I'd love to play, but has ludicrous DRM, and EA have essentially washed their hands of the PC version by not releasing DLC, and still not fixing basic problems from the original game. I might pick it up in a Steam sale if the DRM is removed later.
In any case if you buy a game later you get a fully patched version, for a cheaper price, and often with all the DLC included. No need for a demo if you know exactly how good the game is and it's cheap.
Soldato
I disagree with that point as many publishers have acknowledged that while piracy might hurt some of their sales in the end it does get the gane out to a much wider audience than normal. The main money in games these days is in the multiplayer element anyway. it's all well and good for someone to download, say Bad company 2, but if he likes it wants to play the game to it's full potential then he will invariably buy it. A lot of games for the pc these days are nothing less than rushed console ports and people are quite sick of it. so if joe blogs downloads the game 1st to try it out rather than spend £35 or so on something he is going to regret buying then im not concerned at all.
It's the same with the music industry, would anyone really feel guilty downloading a CD from the likes of ten bob (aka 50 cent) ??? MTV cribs shows that they certainly don't suffer for it
Soldato
I'm not sure where I've said that it isn't a factor? I'd agree in fact! My point isn't that people are pirating to replace demos, I know that's what people do. I just think there are better ways to evaluate a game for purchase, and resorting to infringing copyright shouldn't be peoples first port of call. I was exaggerating in that post though.
Again. I'm not sure where I've said that either? My opinion would be that PC gaming's on the rise again at the moment.
I'm not one of these people. I buy a lot of games, but very few as release titles unless I know I'll play them. I rarely buy big games on a whim without reason. I've have been caught out buying games that weren't worth the price I paid, life moves on though.
I still don't see it as a justification for piracy I'm afraid. A lot of people seem to have an entitlement complex that allows them to pick and choose their own rules for what they do and don't deserve (this isn't specifically you, or even all pirates, just some).
I don't feel that I am owed a demo for any title. I don't feel that I'm owed anything by any developer, no matter how many games of theirs I buy previously. Unfortunately lot of people seem to feel that they're owed everything by developers and now, and when they don't get what they want they're more than happy to get what they want using whatever means they can.
If a new big name title I'm unsure about doesn't have a demo, I won't buy it unless I'm given positive comments about it from peers. You don't have to throw money away to not be a pirate like some people seem to be suggesting.
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You copy your music cd to your pc and put it on your mp3 player. Piracy.
you buy a game and sell it on after you're done. Worse than piracy as you've denied the devs a sale to someone who was actually going to pay.
everyone's a pirate and many of the "legit" customers are considered even worse by the publishers.
demo's.
Soldato
No it's not, it's mine, i bought it and ill do whatever i damn well please with it.
Piracy would be me dowloading the album, burning it to cd and them getting nothing at all.
That's not a guarenteed sale at all. they cannot say that someone was going to buy a copy of the same game i sold for a £5. Look at all the bargain basement games in the likes of tesco and morrisons. i have never heard of those devs crying about lost sales.
Seeing as the way a lot of the dev's dont give a damn about their own customers why should we be any different? take black ops. released broken and we paid full price to beta test it. tell me im wrong? and whats worse instead of fixing the problems with the game they go and release a map pack DLC for more money....i can see their priorities right there.
It is true the dev's consider us all pirates just by the amount of DRM that has creeped in lately.
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Caporegime
Not just demos such as Dead Space 2, Bulletstorm but DLC as well. PC version of Dead Space 2 isn't getting the console DLC.
Not legally.
And not in their opinions.
Still somone was willing to pay for it unlike piracy, and the des still get squat which is why they're all desperately pushing to remove second hand sales on both the pc and console on a scale unlike anything seen for piracy.
Ironic that pirates never have to deal with drm
Agreed, that's what I do and find nothing wrong with it. However, I must be very discerning because I always end up buying
Perhaps you need to look closer then (and understand the differences between the second hand market and the bargain bin). EA took steps with Mass Effect 2 and basically gave original copies of the game a code to download content that should've been in the original release but weren't (Zaeed basically, small but everything starts somewhere) which wouldn't be available to people picking it up second hand. Activision started using Steam for retail copies of CoD to prevent second hand sales. Blizzard ties everything to Battle.net.
Publishers have taken far greater steps to prevent or at least discourage second hand sales than they have to prevent piracy. Most people at least weren't dumb enough to believe piracy was the actual target for these completely ineffective DRMs that conveniently prevented second hand sales too.
Soldato
Granted im not as well up on the second hand market. i know the likes of our local games shop does some offers on console game ect or some kind of swap sceme. I dont know the specifics becasuse 1# I don't own a console and 2# I don't buy second hand games (unless they are old retro ones from a well known auction site
Not played ME2 or heard of that meassure before but i do have Starcraft 2 with it's blizzard tie in. isnt it the same system with Bad company 2 as well? as the game is tied to the EA code so while i could if i wanted to sell the game. no one that bought it would be able to play it online without having my details and having to play under my name / stats.
I didn't know they were taking such serious steps to curb it. as far as i know it's something that has always existed since the earliest days of the c64 / spectrum games. everyone was selling and swapping them and for the life of me i cant remember any uproar over it at the time. u suppose now its because its a big money cash cow for them that they want it stamped out.
Associate
I want to pay good money for a well done PC game for its Multi player side only when there has being no demo available I have had to get that demo else were to try it out If I like it I Buy It My Games I have Purchased speaks for itself, for instance I have pre Purchased TDU 2 on the Beta demo and looking forward to my download email link, same for Battlefield bad company 3 etc.