The Rivers of Blood speech - was Enoch Powell right? Or just a racist?

Robbo said:
I've been thinking about this, I, like many, believe immigration here is out of hand.
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Genuine question for you.

How does the current immigration situation in this country affect your day to day life?

I mean current immigration before somebody pops in to moan about people who moved here in 1930.
 
[TW]Fox;19808573 said:
Genuine question for you.

How does the current immigration situation in this country affect your day to day life?

I mean current immigration before somebody pops in to moan about people who moved here in 1930.
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Good question.

It doesn't actually affect me really, it isn't a big issue around here. However, I have family and so forth in various cities so do have some experience of those areas and obviously their opinions (which I deem to be fairly reasonable).

If I lived somewhere else I'd be far more affected by it I'm sure, but I just wanted to see what other people thought more than anything.
 
Robbo said:
Good question.

It doesn't actually affect me really, it isn't a big issue around here.
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Hmmm, yet you think its a major issue?

Sorry to pick on you, but you said it and it's something I've wondered for a while. Everyone highlights immigration as a major issue yet I wonder how many people really are affected by it?
 
[TW]Fox;19808625 said:
Hmmm, yet you think its a major issue?

Sorry to pick on you, but you said it and it's something I've wondered for a while. Everyone highlights immigration as a major issue yet I wonder how many people really are affected by it?
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No, I understand where you are coming from. It's more that I know people affected by it, I don't only care about things that directly affect me.

Also, I just said that it's out of hand, not that it's a massive country crippling problem, because it isn't really.
 
adam cool dude said:
All the recent problems. Well at least regarding riots have mostly come from our own people.

I work in a place where we recruit a lot of agency and work with eastern europeans on a daily basis. They are mostly a bunch of very hard workers. Which can not be said about the millions of benefit dossers we have in this country.
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This......

those black youths smashing croydon up did not arrive on a banana boat last week. They are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation black british, so recent imigration (i.e in the last 10 or so years) issues are not a factor as far as I can see here
 
wildman said:
This......

those black youths smashing croydon up did not arrive on a banana boat last week. They are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation black british, so recent imigration (i.e in the last 10 or so years) issues are not a factor as far as I can see here
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Do I hear a not-so-disguised view that they rioted because they were black, not because they were immigrants? And unless I'm very mistaken, there were a lot of white folk there too.


M
 
Meridian said:
Do I hear a not-so-disguised view that they rioted because they were black, not because they were immigrants? And unless I'm very mistaken, there were a lot of white folk there too.


M
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I am loling because if you met me IRL you would know why your assertions are wrong :)

If you look at the footage available for the riots in that part of london its obvious that the highest proportion of the so called 'protesters' come looters were black. If you look at the footage for the same incidents in Manchester its the opposite.

The point I was trying to make that recent (circa the last 10 years) imigration policy is not the issue here. If it was predominantly non EU immigrants (as EU citizens are permitted free travel within the EU) looting then I could say yes it was all these imigrants that consecutive governments have allowed into the country. But it wasn't was it. It was mainly the black 'youth community' in south london, and the white 'youth community' up north.

I am not saying they rioted becasue they were black, they rioted and it just so happens that due to poor government social engineering in south london, the majority of the rioters happened to be black
 
People wanna look at the previous census and look at the actual numbers of the minorities, then you'll understand we are not overrun at all, not even close.

What people do see is minorities sticking together, helped, by mistake of local councils, into one area which can cause distorted views amongst the 'natives'.
 
Robbo said:
I've been thinking about this, I, like many, believe immigration here is out of hand. Well, it pretty much is, that much is a fact really.
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The recent riots have nothing to do with immigration.

I think he was brave to say what he did, it obviously wasn't going to go down very well.
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There was nothing brave about it. Powell lived in an era when racism was still socially acceptable (though anti-discrimination legislation was gradually creeping in). Some members of his party objected, and he was sacked by Edward Heath, but Margaret Thatcher voiced her sympathy with his views. A public opinion poll revealed that 74% agreed with Powell and approved of his speech.

However, I think the point he made was a good one.
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Which point was that?

Powell claimed blacks would achieve dominance over whites within 20 years. It didn't happen. It still hasn't happened. Powell claimed the majority of immigrants do not want to integrate with the rest of society. This is also demonstrably false.

Powell claimed the UK would suffer violence of "American proportions." It didn't happen. It still hasn't happened. Powell warned against uncontrolled immigration. The UK did not have uncontrolled immigration at the time, and still doesn't.

Powell was a highly intelligent and well educated man, but he was also a bigot and his predictions have failed.
 
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AmTechFox said:
People wanna look at the previous census and look at the actual numbers of the minorities, then you'll understand we are not overrun at all, not even close.

What people do see is minorities sticking together, helped, by mistake of local councils, into one area which can cause distorted views amongst the 'natives'.
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Because that's what people do, they stick together its a way of feeling part of something and safe, hence the Oldham riots all those years ago, you go to some areas and walk/drive through them and its totally different to a normal white British town. Total different way of live, due to religion and they bring over the cultures from the countries of their parents/grandparents.

Its a fine line but somebody has to integrate!

inb4 racist
 
visionary and I think churchills speech on Islam is as valid today as the day it was written.


The River War)

Here is the speech...

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

--Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 London)
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AmTechFox said:
People wanna look at the previous census and look at the actual numbers of the minorities, then you'll understand we are not overrun at all, not even close.

What people do see is minorities sticking together, helped, by mistake of local councils, into one area which can cause distorted views amongst the 'natives'.
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this

poor social engineering and social policies by both tory and labour governments have given rise to a very skewed view of the 'English' community
 
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