The rotten legacy of the AAA MMO

Zethor

Zethor

Zethor

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Hey guys, sorry about the pompous thread name I've just had an idea and I was wondering if any of you shared similar thoughts. :D

During the past few years we've seen quite a few AAA dissapointments and I noticed some of them have a few things in common and a point of origin. I'm thinking about games such as SW:TOR, EOS, Wildstar, along with many other smaller scale projects that are now F2P and, most recently, Destiny.

The development of these games started in 2007-2009 which coincides with the fastest growth of behemonth we all know, Wolrd of Warcraft. I suspect, CEOs and other decision makers in the gaming business looked at WoW was doing and, most importantly, it's revenue. At its peak, WoW was making the monthly equivalent of the brand new AAA game, every month, without releasing any content. So these people decided they wanted a slice of the tasty pie and they asked gamers, analysts, journalists what the players on WoW did every day to justify $15 paid monthly. The answer? 15-20 corridor dungeon/raids and reputation/attunement grind (gather/fetch/kill X quests), as well as leveling up different classes.

The games I've mentioned are direct results of WoW's smashing success, they are attempts to cash in on what they perceived to be a lucrative market with similar or adjacent ideas. Luckily, they were wrong. WoW was simply the right game at the right time, the market for mind-numbing questing and repetitive content exists but it's nowhere near the hights WoW reached in its glory days. I've said this after EOS, I've said it after Wildstar and I'm saying it again.. I hope Destiny will be the last major effort in this direction, as I believe it's the wrong direction for MMOs and gaming in general.

Thoughts?
 
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My thoughts is most of these have been a miss due to:

-Clunky and/or obtuse implementations of basic mechanics
-BAD UIs (I know it isn't an MMO but skyrim..... what were they thinking)
-Uninspired game worlds or just too much fragmentation with no clear links between things
-Too many gimmicky gameplay mechanics that were all style over substance

For an MMO to really succeed you need a game world that sparks people's imagination a levelling system that is rewarding, good teamplay dynamics and non-complicated implementation of the teamplay systems as well as getting basic movement and powerup use, etc. bang on right.

While again not an MMO BF4 is a good example of how not to do it with lots of unrewarding levelling up, gimmicky perks or just reskins, throwing gold packs at people constantly etc. which just devalues them and so on.
 
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Zethor said:
Thoughts?
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I think you're pretty much spot on. I put many hours into WoW during the good days, like you said it was at the right place at the right time, but I'm done with it now. These AAA WoW clones are very tired and need to die; developers need to understand the gravy train has long passed. Unfortunately for some this realisation happened too late.
 
I don't quite agree with that - the problem is you can't just clone it and expect people to lap it up - you need an MMO to spark people's imagination with something original.
 
I sort of agree with you although I don't think the time for MMOs has gone. I played WoW on release for about 3 years and then on and off for expansions. There is just something about WoW that other MMOs don't have.

However, that said, I'm still excited for other MMOs but none seem to maintain interest for me persinally like wow did. Doesn't stop me looking though :)

It's quite annoying though the hatred wow gets by elitist MMO players. You'd have to be an imbecile to not appreciate the success on wow, or you simply jumped on the bang wagon in year 8 of the game. Wow was an incredible game when if first came out, for a very long time IMO.
 
No one has the attention span anymore so unless its literally the best game ever, no one will bother for a great deal of time.

Hell WoW itself is suffering from long term issues and is unlikely to survive itself, though i doubt its going anywhere soon.

I think the next big thing will be a 3D MMO, but it will be awhile before they can make it worth pitching to a board...so oh well.
 
I can see Destiny having a lot of potential - it's one of the games I'm looking forward to (if it ever actually comes out on PC! :p)

As Rroff said, the majority of MMOs which have come out recently have been clunky, buggy, and with no real immersion to the environments.

I played WoW from beta until just after WOTLK came out, and the one thing that always struck me about the game was the polish and depth of detail.

However the issue WoW suffered was that the expansions just really added more of the same, and it got old.

I'd love for a new MMO to come out with the same level of finish as WoW, but the game play of UO or Neocron :D
 
Always wanted to get into Neocron due to the similarities to Deus Ex but kept forgetting about it and doubt it would do it for me now.
 
Thing with wow from a business pov is you have to look beyond the subscription numbers and look at the franchise as a whole

Digital goods, phsyical goods, trading card + board games, expansion/box sales every couple years... theres a hell of a lot of money involved

They are coming close to half the subscription figures they had at "peak" yet they have gone some way to plugging the subscription gap by adding other crap, like pets/mounts on the store, and charging people £40 for a level boost

Personally I think of the last few years Guildwars 2 for its faults has been the golden goose in terms of what it set out to do, and what it actually achieved.. they were always going to be successful as they were building off a strong foundation of support from gw1, which itself was also overshadowed by WoW when in its infancy.

I'm actually suprised Wildstar has not enjoyed the same level of success... there was an awful lot of interest in it initially but things seem to have gone quiet with it of late

Its not a problem limited to the MMO genre, but obviously its most noticable with them... its pretty much the price the gaming community is paying for gaming becoming accepted in the mainstream really

Wouldn't mind something with the look/feel of RIFT (always thought of it as a more "mature" wow) but the combat system of UO
 
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Haggisman said:
I can see Destiny having a lot of potential - it's one of the games I'm looking forward to (if it ever actually comes out on PC! :p)

As Rroff said, the majority of MMOs which have come out recently have been clunky, buggy, and with no real immersion to the environments.

I played WoW from beta until just after WOTLK came out, and the one thing that always struck me about the game was the polish and depth of detail.

However the issue WoW suffered was that the expansions just really added more of the same, and it got old.

I'd love for a new MMO to come out with the same level of finish as WoW, but the game play of UO or Neocron :D
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Man, Neocron, there's a blast from the past! That game was seriously amazing. Most fond gaming memories I have.

I think the only MMO that could topple WoW is Blizzard's next MMO, if it ever comes out.
 
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Destiny is apparently coming to PC in march next year according to an article, based on a leaked Steam Database entry. Too much good stuff coming early next year. Arkham Knight, GTA, The Division, BF Hardline if that floats your boat.

Anyway regarding WoW every other publisher wanted to 'be the next WoW' not realising (or caring, I'm not sure which) that there wasn't really anything that could be as WoW hadn't really started bleeding players enough. Of the total number of people that would even consider a monthly paid MMO most of them, probably 60% (guesstimate) were already playing WoW and everyone else was fractured between a few dozen others in various numbers.

Therein lies the problem in that if they make it too different they will get the complaints 'It's too complicated/different' but if they make it too similar then the 40% they have a rats ass chance of getting to play their game past the first month will say 'It's too similar to WoW and I hate/have stopped playing WoW'.

What was needed was a game so completely different that it cannot be compared beyond 'it's an MMO'. And a few tried. I think most people were all 'Fantasy'd out' in that Orcs, goblins, Humans and Elves were all rather old hat and they wanted something different. I'm also surprised there haven't been more Sci-Fi based MMO's. Star Trek Online could have had potential but was a bit crap although ship combat was well done. SW:ToR was a bit too slow paced for my liking although I played for nearly a year.

Tabula Rasa tried but suffered the curse of 'we've run out of money, we need to release to raise capital and patch it later' not realising that people play, get caught up in bugs and glitches and rarely come back. Prior to being shut down TR was awesome fun and different to anything else out there.

My favourite MMO, City of Heroes was killed off before it really had a chance to shine, even though most that played it loved the lore and the ideas that many MMO's copied such as Automatic Sidekicking (your buddy is 20 levels above you? No problem! You can still play together and gain XP together) and the fact that as you levelled up and trained new powers it was only the powers that changed or developed. Your character, thanks to its unique and individual character creator meant no two characters looked the same. No doubt there have been quite a few who played WoW who saw others running around with very similar gear to you at most levels.

Anyway, IMO the days of the paid MMO are gone. WoW manages to continue but I think even Blizz/Activision have realised their cash cow is on the wane.

Also Kalexuz is right, the 'Next WoW' will only come from Blizzard themselves.

Also the current push towards 'solo enablement' is killing MMO's as they are now. I get that people want to play by themselves (although their decision to buy and play a game that 'forces' them to mingle with others is strange to me) but I've always had the best time playing with a group, even if that group isn't fully known to me. It's the social aspect that always brought me in first, not the Gameplay, Game itself , Graphics (which are never cutting edge for fear of alienating older PC owning gamers), Lore or anything else.
 
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after the disaster of archeage ( currently sat in a 2 hr queue ) and its not even open to free to play, players yet. im going to stick with free to play games like warthunder etc. That way if it turns into a big pile of stinking poo, i havent wasted $150 again.

Having said that im waiting for Elite as i cant see that getting messed up or braben shafting the people who buy the game like trion did.
 
MissChief said:
My favourite MMO, City of Heroes was killed off before it really had a chance to shine, even though most that played it loved the lore and the ideas that many MMO's copied such as Automatic Sidekicking (your buddy is 20 levels above you? No problem! You can still play together and gain XP together) and the fact that as you levelled up and trained new powers it was only the powers that changed or developed. Your character, thanks to its unique and individual character creator meant no two characters looked the same. No doubt there have been quite a few who played WoW who saw others running around with very similar gear to you at most levels.
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COH was brilliant, sadly towards the end they started to fragment the mechanics too much - mostly trying to shoe horn in gimmicks from other games in a desperate and misguided attempt to pull players from other games - with a bit more thought the invention system, auction house thingy, etc. could have been great, that and graphically it moved too slowly - I dunno if you ever played the last proper build before they closed it but aside from low res textures with max settings it was finally starting to look very very good - full on real time shadows, basic global illumination, ambient occlusion, real time reflections, etc. etc.

They got so many things bang on right with that game though especially anything to do with playing with other players.

Really really sad to see that one go, was half hoping I'd get my hands on the source.
 
Rroff said:
COH was brilliant, sadly towards the end they started to fragment the mechanics too much - mostly trying to shoe horn in gimmicks from other games in a desperate and misguided attempt to pull players from other games - with a bit more thought the invention system, auction house thingy, etc. could have been great, that and graphically it moved too slowly - I dunno if you ever played the last proper build before they closed it but aside from low res textures with max settings it was finally starting to look very very good - full on real time shadows, basic global illumination, ambient occlusion, real time reflections, etc. etc.

They got so many things bang on right with that game though especially anything to do with playing with other players.

Really really sad to see that one go, was half hoping I'd get my hands on the source.
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There's been some movement to buy the source code from NCSoft directly but I don't think that includes character data. I'm not sure I want to start again from scratch. The main thrust seems to be gaining the IP from NCSoft and licensing the name out.
 
The games industry seems to be all about imitate rather than innovate these days.

No one wants to take risks. The publishers see another successful game and try to copy it.

It's caused a lot of stagnation and underwhelming games of recent times imo.
 
It takes a normal person 30 secs of gameplay to realise if an upcoming MMO is going to fail but for the average MMO addict it can take tens of hours and a lot of wasted money.
 
The problem comes from people knowing these games will be more of the same and buying them anyway in either the vain hope they are better than expected, because you want more of the same or because the hype train has caught you.

Although there have been a few bad releases recently that have hopefully made some of the bigger developers/publishers think twice (Sim City and Watchdogs to name 2)

I guess another issue is that PC gaming probably isn't as profitable as it once was and portable/console gaming has a larger market share and is more profitable to develop for and release on with poor console ports being done for the PC.
 
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