The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

sprite- · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:26

I'm glad we now have CHOICE but we don't have competition. AMD essentially occupying the same price brackets and over the last 9 years Nvidia gross margin has risen from 50% to over 60% by screwing gamers and establishing ridiculous pricing.

I just hope with RDNA3 and Hopper some pricing competition starts and we don't end up in Nvidia and AMD maintaining and pushing the price brackets together.

Plus their 6900XT is just as ridiculously priced as the 3090. Some analysis below:

6800XT vs 6900XT (with both having Rage Mode and SAM enabled:

So I took the 4K 6800XT (No rage mode or SAM enabled) chart and 6900XT (Rage mode and SAM enabled) charts presented by AMD and then used the chart they showed the % gain on 6800XT you get with rage mode and SAM if you enabled it. Using those titles, means 6900XT is 6-9% faster than 6800XT.

Borderlands 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT
Doom Eternal: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT
Forza Horizon 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT
Gears 5: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT
Resident Evil 3: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT
Wolfenstein Young Blood: 6900XT is 8% faster than 6800XT

So on average 7.8% performance increase for 54% increase in cost.

3080 FE vs 3090 FE (Using same titles as above Big Navi comparison):

Over same titles using Hardware Unboxed figures (FH4 and BL3 uses Tom's Hardware figures), 3080 FE vs 3090 FE difference at 4K.

Resident Evil 3: 3900 is 14% faster than 3800
Wolfenstein Young Blood: 3900 is 13% faster than 3800
Doom Eternal: 3900 is 11% faster than 3800
Gears 5: 3900 is 5% faster than 3800
Forza Horizon 4: 3900 is 9% faster than 3800
Borderlands 3: 3900 is 15% faster than 3800

So on average 11.1% (or if you remove Gears 5 outlier around 13%-14%) performance instead for 114% increase in cost.

Conclusion:

Pretty much a wash between the two in terms of both 6900XT and 3090 being rip off products for both AMD and Nvidia. Both offer the same value performance to value increase over the tier below. AMD doing a good job of imitating Nvidia.

HEADRAT · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:30

Kronos said:
Can't say that I am, is it some new fangled gizmo that I cannot do without?

It's a new thing, everyone's getting it apparently, it's killer

LoadsaMoney · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:30

Sargatanas2511 said:
I have followed things pretty well and never heard any tangible information about it at all. It's just a name currently for me.

If it looks worse then it won't be used. People defending DLSS blurring saying you don't notice it during gameplay is weird to me but there we go.

You don't notice it while playing, its like i said, you'll have to stop playing, and look about the screen going, ohh yeah, look how blury that is, and look how bad...., Ahh ****, im dead!

(unless you pause the game to look about).

AMD already have something similar, that boost thing (i think thats it), that reduces the res on the fly while yer playing, to keep the frames up, now, ive not seen one single post from anyone, absolutely slating that, so either everyone just knows its crap, so is not using it, or they are using it, but don't notice the change, as they ain't standing about, pausing the game, they're actually playing.

Freddie1980 · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:31

sprite- said:
Pretty much a wash between the two in terms of both 6900XT and 3090 being rip off products for both AMD and Nvidia. Both offer the same value performance to value increase over the tier below. AMD doing a good job of imitating Nvidia.

The problem is there are always people who will ignore the value gap and just buy the out and out fastest product available and they effectively enabling this type of pricing.

KiNgPiN83 · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:33

Kronos said:
Can't say that I am, is it some new fangled gizmo that I cannot do without?

It isn't but you get better performance if you turn it off.

Sargatanas2511 · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:35

LoadsaMoney said:
You don't notice it while playing, its like i said, you'll have to stop playing, and look about the screen going, ohh yeah, look how blury that is, and look how bad...., Ahh ****, im dead! (unless you pause the game to look about).

AMD already have something similar, that boost thing (i think thats it), that reduces the res on the fly while yer playing, to keep the frames up, now, ive not seen one single post from anyone, absolutely slating that, so either everyone just knows its crap, so is not using it, or they are using it, but don't notice the change, while actually playing.

I disagree with that, it's corner cutting and it's no different from turning off certain settings in games anyway. The whole sales pitch of DLSS is that it improves frame rate with little to no visual fidelity loss and clearly in certain circumstances that's incorrect. Nvidia speak about it like it's an amazing feature (look at the whole 8k 3090 piece where most games used DLSS, not native 8k) but it definitely comes with a lot of drawbacks.

That said when implemented right like Death Stranding and Control it is impressive.

humbug · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:35

MikeB said:
650 dollars, so will be about £800 on here

Why? Why would they have an MSRP of $50 less than the 3080 but be $100 more expensive? Because of supply constraints? then why isn't the 3080 £900?

ltron · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:35

sprite- said:
I'm glad we now have CHOICE but we don't have competition. AMD essentially occupying the same price brackets and over the last 9 years Nvidia gross margin has risen from 50% to over 60% by screwing gamers and establishing ridiculous pricing.

I just hope with RDNA3 and Hopper some pricing competition starts and we don't end up in Nvidia and AMD maintaining and pushing the price brackets together.

Plus their 6900XT is just as ridiculously priced as the 3090. Some analysis below:

6800XT vs 6900XT (with both having Rage Mode and SAM enabled:

So I took the 4K 6800XT (No rage mode or SAM enabled) chart and 6900XT (Rage mode and SAM enabled) charts presented by AMD and then used the chart they showed the % gain on 6800XT you get with rage mode and SAM if you enabled it. Using those titles, means 6900XT is 6-9% faster than 6800XT.

Borderlands 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Doom Eternal: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT

Forza Horizon 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Gears 5: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Resident Evil 3: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT

Wolfenstein Young Blood: 6900XT is 8% faster than 6800XT

So on average 7.8% performance increase for 54% increase in cost.

3080 FE vs 3090 FE (Using same titles as above Big Navi comparison):

Over same titles using Hardware Unboxed figures (FH4 and BL3 uses Tom's Hardware figures), 3080 FE vs 3090 FE difference at 4K.

Resident Evil 3: 3900 is 14% faster than 3800

Wolfenstein Young Blood: 3900 is 13% faster than 3800

Doom Eternal: 3900 is 11% faster than 3800

Gears 5: 3900 is 5% faster than 3800

Forza Horizon 4: 3900 is 9% faster than 3800

Borderlands 3: 3900 is 15% faster than 3800

So on average 11.1% (or if you remove Gears 5 outlier around 13%-14%) performance instead for 114% increase in cost.

Conclusion:

Pretty much a wash between the two in terms of both 6900XT and 3090 being rip off products for both AMD and Nvidia. Both offer the same value performance to value increase over the tier below. AMD doing a good job of imitating Nvidia.

They've got to make money too. If Nvidia want to undercut them then that's up to them to make the first move, people would buy the much more expensive Nvidia card in the past anyway and AMD would make much less money on the few cards they sold to AMD fans. It was a failure of a business strategy.

sprite- · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:38

ltron said:
They've got to make money too.

Nvidia have a higher gross margin than Ralph Lauren.... A luxury clothes manufacturer, a notoriously extreme margin business. They have a higher gross margin than Apple... And yes their "gaming / GPU" department reflects that, isn't just their AI / Data Center driving those margins.

If you think that's acceptable and don't feel Nvidia have exploited their position and that AMD is now jumping on the same bandwagon, I don't know what to say. Its ridiculous and as consumers were left with choice but no competition.

Look at what happened to Intel when AMD created competition in Zen, Intels gross margin has steadily declined (as they were same as Nvidia, hitting 60% and now down to 50%). I'm quite dissapointed than AMD are now taking the "let's join them in screwing our customers" approach.

d_brennen · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:39

High pricing is here to stay I think. AMD have stated over and over they no longer want to be a budget brand. Manufacturing costs are up, logistics are up and rising, import tariffs, covid disruption. GBP about to fall off a cliff? Maybe

While chip firms are selling pretty much everything they can make, pricing isn't going to plummet magically

chroniclard · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:40

Not fussed with DLSS style cheating or RT. Just want raw performance for a decent price.

Dontrocktheboat · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:40

sprite- said:
I'm glad we now have CHOICE but we don't have competition. AMD essentially occupying the same price brackets and over the last 9 years Nvidia gross margin has risen from 50% to over 60% by screwing gamers and establishing ridiculous pricing.

I just hope with RDNA3 and Hopper some pricing competition starts and we don't end up in Nvidia and AMD maintaining and pushing the price brackets together.

Plus their 6900XT is just as ridiculously priced as the 3090. Some analysis below:

6800XT vs 6900XT (with both having Rage Mode and SAM enabled:

So I took the 4K 6800XT (No rage mode or SAM enabled) chart and 6900XT (Rage mode and SAM enabled) charts presented by AMD and then used the chart they showed the % gain on 6800XT you get with rage mode and SAM if you enabled it. Using those titles, means 6900XT is 6-9% faster than 6800XT.

Borderlands 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Doom Eternal: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT

Forza Horizon 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Gears 5: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Resident Evil 3: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT

Wolfenstein Young Blood: 6900XT is 8% faster than 6800XT

So on average 7.8% performance increase for 54% increase in cost.

3080 FE vs 3090 FE (Using same titles as above Big Navi comparison):

Over same titles using Hardware Unboxed figures (FH4 and BL3 uses Tom's Hardware figures), 3080 FE vs 3090 FE difference at 4K.

Resident Evil 3: 3900 is 14% faster than 3800

Wolfenstein Young Blood: 3900 is 13% faster than 3800

Doom Eternal: 3900 is 11% faster than 3800

Gears 5: 3900 is 5% faster than 3800

Forza Horizon 4: 3900 is 9% faster than 3800

Borderlands 3: 3900 is 15% faster than 3800

So on average 11.1% (or if you remove Gears 5 outlier around 13%-14%) performance instead for 114% increase in cost.

Conclusion:

Pretty much a wash between the two in terms of both 6900XT and 3090 being rip off products for both AMD and Nvidia. Both offer the same value performance to value increase over the tier below. AMD doing a good job of imitating Nvidia.

good work>>>

Thats what bullzoid said too.

Both 3090 and 6900xt are rip offs. At least 3090 has 24gb memory and can be used for production. 8CU for 400$ more is a con job, sorry AMD.

6800xt is the sweet spot, esp if you can find it for the RRP when it comes out.

LoadsaMoney · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:41

deleted, already been posted.

jonneymendoza · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:41

sprite- said:
I'm glad we now have CHOICE but we don't have competition. AMD essentially occupying the same price brackets and over the last 9 years Nvidia gross margin has risen from 50% to over 60% by screwing gamers and establishing ridiculous pricing.

I just hope with RDNA3 and Hopper some pricing competition starts and we don't end up in Nvidia and AMD maintaining and pushing the price brackets together.

Plus their 6900XT is just as ridiculously priced as the 3090. Some analysis below:

6800XT vs 6900XT (with both having Rage Mode and SAM enabled:

So I took the 4K 6800XT (No rage mode or SAM enabled) chart and 6900XT (Rage mode and SAM enabled) charts presented by AMD and then used the chart they showed the % gain on 6800XT you get with rage mode and SAM if you enabled it. Using those titles, means 6900XT is 6-9% faster than 6800XT.

Borderlands 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Doom Eternal: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT

Forza Horizon 3: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Gears 5: 6900XT is 9% faster than 6800XT

Resident Evil 3: 6900XT is 6% faster than 6800XT

Wolfenstein Young Blood: 6900XT is 8% faster than 6800XT

So on average 7.8% performance increase for 54% increase in cost.

3080 FE vs 3090 FE (Using same titles as above Big Navi comparison):

Over same titles using Hardware Unboxed figures (FH4 and BL3 uses Tom's Hardware figures), 3080 FE vs 3090 FE difference at 4K.

Resident Evil 3: 3900 is 14% faster than 3800

Wolfenstein Young Blood: 3900 is 13% faster than 3800

Doom Eternal: 3900 is 11% faster than 3800

Gears 5: 3900 is 5% faster than 3800

Forza Horizon 4: 3900 is 9% faster than 3800

Borderlands 3: 3900 is 15% faster than 3800

So on average 11.1% (or if you remove Gears 5 outlier around 13%-14%) performance instead for 114% increase in cost.

Conclusion:

Pretty much a wash between the two in terms of both 6900XT and 3090 being rip off products for both AMD and Nvidia. Both offer the same value performance to value increase over the tier below. AMD doing a good job of imitating Nvidia.

Nice

ltron · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:42

sprite- said:
Nvidia have a higher gross margin than Ralph Lauren.... A luxury clothes manufacturer, a notoriously extreme margin business. They have a higher gross margin than Apple... And yes their "gaming / GPU" department reflects that, isn't just their AI / Data Center driving those margins.

If you think that's acceptable and don't feel Nvidia have exploited their position and that AMD is now jumping on the same bandwagon, I don't know what to say. Its ridiculous and as consumers were left with choice but no competition.

That's because people bought overpriced Nvidia cards and didn't give the much cheaper AMD the time of day. It's only natural for Nvidia to exploit this in a capitalist system. Obviously I'm not happy about it as a consumer but I can see quite clearly how we've ended up here, until people start buying AMD or another future competitor it's not going to change.

sprite- · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:45

ltron said:
That's because people bought overpriced Nvidia cards and didn't give the much cheaper AMD the time of day. It's only natural for Nvidia to exploit this in a capitalist system. Obviously I'm not happy about it as a consumer but I can see quite clearly how we've ended up here, until people start buying AMD or another future competitor it's not going to change.

There is capitalist system, then there is price fixing. Which is essentially what they're doing as duopoly.

Don't get me wrong, like 1080 ill buy the 6800XT. I don't have any options... But both Nvidia and now AMD are despicable companies who are driving their gross margins way beyond what is reasonable, using the lack of competition to do so.

Archy · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:49

humbug said:
Why? Why would they have an MSRP of $50 less than the 3080 but be $100 more expensive? Because of supply constraints? then why isn't the 3080 £900?

I suspect it was a tongue in cheek dig at the price rises over MSRP of the Nvidia cards post release.

2Thumbs · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:49

Poneros said:
AMD crushed Ampere like a bug, and we haven't even seen OC numbers yet!

As for people buying NV for RT performance, may I just - LOL!/

This is what I don't understand. Clutching at straws about 'second gen' RTX being better but 3070 reviews tells us it's no better than the 2080Ti it's in line with. The only reason the 3080 is better is because of the performance deficit in general.

Nablaoperator · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:51

sprite- said:
There is capitalist system, then there is price fixing. Which is essentially what they're doing as duopoly.

Don't get me wrong, like 1080 ill buy the 6800XT. I don't have any options... But both Nvidia and now AMD are despicable companies who are driving their gross margins way beyond what is reasonable, using the lack of competition to do so.

Be interesting to see what intel can bring to the table, next year.
Am hoping that they make a dent
But then there's another problem that will take a while to resolve, TSMC

gpuerrilla · 29 Oct 2020 at 11:52

Wrinkly said:
4K has always been more Epeen than a smart choice. Now the arguement is people will be using 4k TVs, but then they sit 2+ meters from the screen. Run it at a sensible resolution such as 1440p. Very playable.

Personally I would have preferred a drop in raster performance and more of the die be devoted to RT.

I disagree slightly here. I have new bounds of epeen being the demo Jensen had where select users got to play 8k games. The other form of epeen is the high refresh fps/mhz users as they seem to be really defensive of any criticism especially obfuscating advice when you say to people about CPU's to just up the resolution and the GPU has to handle the work. An observation I have seen on here.

I dont think people that own a 4k display are stereotypical 'epeen' candidates. I am quite content with near 60fps at this resolution or at 1440p and spent less than £200 on the display. I suppose it depends on your image of epeen, really I guess its showing off but we all grew up with kids like this and it applies to every hobby to be fair.