The unemployed

fulcrumer · 17 Aug 2006 at 00:32

xyphic said:
That's how I think it should work. I do understand that there are generally legitimate reasons why someone is out of work, be it due to a lack of jobs or whatever. But I think that while claiming, unless you have a disability that prevents it, you should have to put something back into the community, either by litter picking, gardening, conservation, or similar. Give time off for job interviews, but make it clear that you can't get something for nothing.

I won't pretend there aren't issues with the idea (e.g. it might actually be enjoyable for some people and they'd be getting paid for something others are doing voluntarily!) but there are *major* problems with the current system.

Its been tried before many times the last in the 90s - Community Programme. It is very expensive and is not particularly effective at getting people into sustainable employment. What it does do is put people on a training allowance and hence removes them from the unemployment count. Keep them off 6 months (and the scheme did just that) and you also erradicate long term unemployment - statistically. Polictically difficult.

Jonny ///M · 17 Aug 2006 at 02:06

locutus12 said:
unfortunatly the reason why that wont happen are two fold,

firstly they would be classed as employed, and even if the government said they were not it only takes one person to bring a court case against the government, and as such they would be entitled to the minimum wage, which means each job seeker could do no more than 10 hours a week without the government having to pay them more...

secondly running such a scheme would be a beurocratic nightmare, managing a work force of over a million people, it would cost huge ammounts of money.

So whats this,if you work over 10 hours a week you have to be paid more than minimum wage???

To the comment about getting them out painting fences,how could say my mum.....who has two kids to bring up and put out to school in the morning go out doing manual labour??? even going and feeding homeless or whatever. My mums always had a job and been made redundant a few times at that. Also does her hobby on the side which keeps her sane i guess.

Locutus,when i got ema it was £30 quid a week paid every two weeks....as far as i know most people got the £30 no matter the income of the house. You cant ****ing live on £30 a week if you have to pay for a place to live and busses to school or whatever. Basically the government want you out of school working since you may be in one of those bad postcodes......

I noticed a trend of my school telling "the lesser ones" to leave...wtf.....just because i dont have 5 A's doesnt mean i cant do my best and get C's and at least get a chance at further education but no it effects the school standards or some ****.

locutus12 · 17 Aug 2006 at 03:50

Jonny ///M said:
So whats this,if you work over 10 hours a week you have to be paid more than minimum wage???

thats not quite what i meant, i said they cant work more than ten hours a week because they would be entitled to a wage for the work done under law, and under law they are entitled to minimum wage which is around £5 an hour, hence 10 x 5 = £50 which is around the ammount a person claiming benefits gets per week, any more than ten hours and the government would efectively have to stump up more money and hence would effectively employ them to be on benefits :confused:

.

Jonny ///M said:
Locutus,when i got ema it was £30 quid a week paid every two weeks....as far as i know most people got the £30 no matter the income of the house. You cant ****ing live on £30 a week if you have to pay for a place to live and busses to school or whatever.

i earned £108 a week when i was 17 7 years ago and i was sharing a house, all bills included for £40 a week, that £30 a week would have meant i could take a day or possibly 2 off work to go to college and fill in the rest with evening classes.

Zip · 17 Aug 2006 at 04:31

Im unemployed.
But im not on welfare

I dont work because im in a small town with not many or really crap jobs.

Jonny ///M · 17 Aug 2006 at 04:36

locutus12 said:
thats not quite what i meant, i said they cant work more than ten hours a week because they would be entitled to a wage for the work done under law, and under law they are entitled to minimum wage which is around £5 an hour, hence 10 x 5 = £50 which is around the ammount a person claiming benefits gets per week, any more than ten hours and the government would efectively have to stump up more money and hence would effectively employ them to be on benefits .

i earned £108 a week when i was 17 7 years ago and i was sharing a house, all bills included for £40 a week, that £30 a week would have meant i could take a day or possibly 2 off work to go to college and fill in the rest with evening classes.

Good on ya mate. Makes me realise i have it easy-ish to do what i do. Makes me even more disappointed in my mate Mr."aye but.....".

James_N · 17 Aug 2006 at 06:53

I was on JSA for about 18 months after leaving college. I applied for numerous I.T jobs but didnt really get anywhere. I got lucky and ended up with a job in the NHS. Its only a telephonist / receptionist job, but its kind of IT related, its part time (but i do a lot of overtime!). Its not the worlds most amazing money, but having been here now for nearly 2 years, i can say its MUCH better than being on the dole.

And i can sit here knowing i dont have to go to the dole office on a thursday morning and associate with the beer drinking chavs that always seem to be hanging around there.

How can people on the dole always afford beer!

dirtydog · 17 Aug 2006 at 07:39

Zip said:
Im unemployed.
But im not on welfare

I dont work because im in a small town with not many or really crap jobs.

If you don't work or claim benefits, how do you survive?

dirtydog · 17 Aug 2006 at 07:40

James_N said:
I was on JSA for about 18 months after leaving college.

-snip-

And i can sit here knowing i dont have to go to the dole office on a thursday morning and associate with the beer drinking chavs

I wouldn't look down your nose at them quite so much - how on earth could you not find ANY job for 18 months? That's ridiculous mate.

dirtydog · 17 Aug 2006 at 07:41

Von Smallhausen said:
In all seriousness, it's a very good point.

Not really because unless you live with your parents or whatever, you get other benefits on top of the JSA. Obviously nobody is living on £55 a week alone.

Zip · 17 Aug 2006 at 07:44

dirtydog said:
If you don't work or claim benefits, how do you survive?

I still ilive at home with mum.
And the money i do get when i occasionly go out and help out with some family buisness thing that is going no where i can make last for ages

James_N · 17 Aug 2006 at 07:55

dirtydog said:
how on earth could you not find ANY job for 18 months? That's ridiculous mate.

Its a bit more difficult for me, as i have cerebal palsy, i cant do things like stacking shelves, because i cant be on my feet for too long, i just cant do it.

The amount of jobs i applied for that I didnt even get a reply too, was crazy, even a reply just to say "thanks but no thanks" wouldnt go a miss.

dirtydog · 17 Aug 2006 at 08:05

James_N said:
Its a bit more difficult for me, as i have cerebal palsy, i cant do things like stacking shelves, because i cant be on my feet for too long, i just cant do it.

The amount of jobs i applied for that I didnt even get a reply too, was crazy, even a reply just to say "thanks but no thanks" wouldnt go a miss.

Ah my apologies then - I was assuming that you were able to do any type of work

James_N · 17 Aug 2006 at 08:07

dirtydog said:
Ah my apologies then - I was assuming that you were able to do any type of work

Thats ok

It would be nice to be able to do anything, but i have to do a job where i can sit down for the most part, so receptionist / telephonist was an ideal job.

If i have to be on my feet for anything around 10 mins, it gets to the point where i either sit down or fall down

not much good in a supermarket environment unfortunatly

Robdav · 17 Aug 2006 at 08:33

I'm currently unemployed and I am claiming.

I am not a lazy, puff using, drunk chav. I am not spunging off the state. I am not doing this though choice.

What I am is someone who has been working for 20 years, who has found myself out of work through no fault of my own and I have a wife and 2 kids to support. I am currently claiming JSA, and housing in order that my family doesn't end up either living with my parents, or living on the street.

I hate the fact that I have to attend the local job centre every two weeks, to sit down with someone who doesn't understand the kind of work I am looking for, someone who doesn't speak very good english. I hate the fact that there are security guards milling around the office because certain types of people can't seem to understand how to behave and think nothing of kicking off.

However, I am looking for work, all the time, have had several interviews, and have more lined up. I'm even considering starting my own business.

Am I embarassed about claiming? yes and no. Yes because I feel that I have left my family down, and no because I feel that I've paid enough NI over the past 20 years.

peter_hutson · 17 Aug 2006 at 09:49

Robdav said:
I'm currently unemployed and I am claiming.

I am not a lazy, puff using, drunk chav. I am not spunging off the state. I am not doing this though choice.

What I am is someone who has been working for 20 years, who has found myself out of work through no fault of my own and I have a wife and 2 kids to support. I am currently claiming JSA, and housing in order that my family doesn't end up either living with my parents, or living on the street.

I hate the fact that I have to attend the local job centre every two weeks, to sit down with someone who doesn't understand the kind of work I am looking for, someone who doesn't speak very good english. I hate the fact that there are security guards milling around the office because certain types of people can't seem to understand how to behave and think nothing of kicking off.

However, I am looking for work, all the time, have had several interviews, and have more lined up. I'm even considering starting my own business.

Am I embarassed about claiming? yes and no. Yes because I feel that I have left my family down, and no because I feel that I've paid enough NI over the past 20 years.

From what you have said you are exactly the sort of person the system was put in place to try and help. There is no way you should feel embarassed on any level. The problem is that for every person that deserves help, there is a lazy little scrounger waiting behind shouting "me too, money for me please".

I just don't know what can be done to fix the system. It seems that the professional scroungers know how to roger the system. Making the system more strict will get rid of some, but it will also hurt the genuine claimants. For me it comes down to a question of how many "deserving" people you are prepared to hurt in order to punish the "scroungers".

I have a suspicion that the welfare state needs completely scraped and a completely new system put in place. I don't know what this "new system" is, but the current on is certainly not working and is dragging the country down.

Guru · 17 Aug 2006 at 10:07

I haven't worked since february. because a am physically unable

how can i find out about claiming disability and how much would i get?

I am at the stage where i really need some financial help of some kind.

ChrisJSY · 17 Aug 2006 at 10:23

dirtydog said:
how on earth could you not find ANY job for 18 months? That's ridiculous mate.

It's not impossible for a certain someone to be so unlucky (well luck has nothing to do with it) for them never to get to even the interview stage.

I was in the same position, kind of.
Being unemployed is one thing, but after months and months of failure it really hits you, depression is a factor and do you ever wonder why some people just give up?

I was out of a job beginning of dec last year, I tried everything, everyday I could, taking jobs from working in a convenience store, blockbusters....to packing stuff for play.com/amazing/contact lenses, Call centers, anything.... I came out of an I.T job so it was a little how could you say... "under me" ?

None of them did I get to the interview stage with, 90% of them never got back. I was confused as to why I couldn't even do basic jobs you don't really need much (if any) quallies for :/

Guess they prefer to employ foreign people and pay them less or something.

I kept trying and trying and one day I got to an interview stage, next day... I got the job. Working in I.T again, altho I don't do any engineering work this time.

5th month so far and they are happy with me ;D

singist · 17 Aug 2006 at 10:29

Regarding happily accepting dole/benefits etc ....... I have to say that paying kids money to stay at school is not my idea of an introduction to the work ethic ...... quite the opposite.

fulcrumer · 17 Aug 2006 at 11:54

Guru said:
I haven't worked since february. because a am physically unable

how can i find out about claiming disability and how much would i get?

I am at the stage where i really need some financial help of some kind.

Make an appointment to see the Disabled Register Officer (Personal Adviser expert on disability issues) at your local Jobcentre or look at www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk

dirtydog · 17 Aug 2006 at 12:36

ChrisJSY said:
It's not impossible for a certain someone to be so unlucky (well luck has nothing to do with it) for them never to get to even the interview stage.

If you are fit and healthy and have no physical or mental disabilities then unless you live in the middle of nowhere, I refuse to accept that someone could not find ANY job in 18 months

Even if it is a part time job like cleaning. Or agency work. You might not even earn more than you do on the dole, but you are off the dole and are in more of a position of strength when looking for a 'proper' job - because employers prefer to employ people who haven't been on the dole for a long time.