'The Union'

Can Cornwall declare independence?

It could certainly try, I don't fancy their chances of succeeding too much but if the Cornish want it then good luck to them.

Reading the thread earlier I was wondering if we were going to have a thread on Scotland without input from Biohazard but it's pleasing to know that like the sun rising in the morning some things you can rely on. :D
 
Always found it funny that the English Anthem gets Booed by probably the same people who are chanting rule Brittania at Celtic V Rangers games. Apparently no problem with Britain but a problem with the Queen, scenario dependant. :p

The very few full on sectarian abuse embracing huns I know often happily wear England strips to play 5s.
 
Always found it funny that the English Anthem gets Booed by probably the same people who are chanting rule Brittania at Celtic V Rangers games. Apparently no problem with Britain but a problem with the Queen, scenario dependant. :p

I thought they actually sung God Save the Queen at Rangers games.
 
Your source? It seems to contradict what the BoE say themself. It doesn't answer the question either to be honest. Are the BoE wrong?

More:



They don't give prominence to anyone else, or the House. It was Patterson and his merchants. He was later involved in Darien. Wiki quote;



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Paterson_(banker)



My source is the Bank of England Act and The Old and New London by Walter Thornbury.

An extract from the book;

The project of a Bank of England seems to have been often discussed during the Commonwealth, and was seriously proposed at the meeting of the First Council of Trade at Mercers' Hall after the Restoration. Paterson has himself described the first starting of the Bank, in his "Proceedings at the Imaginary Wednesday's Club," 1717. The first proposition of a Bank of England was made in July, 1691, when the Government had contracted £3,000,000 of debt in three years, and the Ministers even stooped, hat in hand, to borrow £100,000 or £200,000 at a time of the Common Council of London, on the first payment of the land-tax, and all payable with the year, the common councillors going round and soliciting from house to house. The first project was badly received, as people expected an immediate peace, and disliked a scheme which had come from Holland—"they had too many Dutch things already." They also doubted the stability of William's Government. The money, at this time, was terribly debased, and the national debt increasing yearly. The ministers preferred ready money by annuities for ninety-nine years, and by a lottery. At last they ventured to try the Bank, on the express condition that if a moiety, £1,200,000, was not collected by August, 1699, there should be no Bank, and the whole £1,200,000 should be struck in halves for the managers to dispose of at their pleasure. So great was the opposition, that the very night before, some City men wagered deeply that one-third of the £1,200,000 would never be subscribed. Nevertheless, the next day £346,000, with a fourth paid in at once, was subscribed, and the remainder in a few days after. The whole subscription was completed in ten days, and paid into the Exchequer in rather more than ten weeks. Paterson expressly tells us that the Bank Act would have been quashed in the Privy Council but for Queen Mary, who, following the wish of her husband. expressed firmly in a letter from Flanders, pressed the commission forward, after a six hours' sitting.

The Bank Bill, timidly brought forward, purported only to impose a new duty on tonnage, for the benefit of such loyal persons as should advance money towards carrying on the war. The plan was for the Government to borrow £1,200,000, at the modest interest of eight per cent. To encourage capitalists, the subscribers were to be incorporated by the name of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. Both Tories and Whigs broke into a fury at the scheme. The goldsmiths and pawnbrokers, says Macaulay, set up a howl of rage. The Tories declared that banks were republican institutions; the Whigs predicted ruin and despotism. The whole wealth of the nation would be in the hands of the "Tonnage Bank," and the Bank would be in the hands of the Sovereign. It was worse than the Star Chamber, worse than Oliver's 50,000 soldiers. The power of the purse would be transferred from the House of Commons to the Governor and Directors of the new Company. Bending to this last objection, a clause was inserted, inhibiting the Bank from advancing money to the House without authority from Parliament. Every infraction of this rule was to be punished by a forfeiture of three times the sum advanced, without the king having power to remit the penalty. Charles Montague, an able man, afterwards First Lord of the Treasury, carried the bill through the House; and Michael Godfrey (the brother of the celebrated Sir Edmundbury Godfrey, supposed to have been murdered by the Papists), an upright merchant and a zealous Whig, propitiated the City. In the Lords (always the more prejudiced and conservative body than the Commons) the bill met with great opposition. Some noblemen imagined that the Bank was intended to exalt the moneyed interest and debase the landed interest; and others imagined the bill was intended to enrich usurers, who would prefer banking their money to lending it on mortgage. "Something was said," says Macaulay, "about the danger of setting up a gigantic corporation, which might soon give laws to the King and the three estates of the realm." Eventually the Lords, afraid to leave the King without money, passed the bill. During several generations the Bank of England was emphatically a Whig body. The Stuarts would at once have repudiated the debt, and the Bank of England, knowing that their return implied ruin, remained loyal to William, Anne, and George. "It is hardly too much to say," writes Macaulay, "that during many years the weight of the Bank, which was constantly in the scale of the Whigs, almost counterbalanced the weight of the Church, which was as constantly in the scale of the Tories." "Seventeen years after the passing of the Tonnage Bill," says the same eminent writer, to show the reliance of the Whigs on the Bank of England, "Addison, in one of his most ingenious and graceful little allegories, described the situation of the great company through which the immense wealth of London was constantly circulating. He saw Public Credit on her throne in Grocers' Hall, the Great Charter over her head, the Act of Settlement full in her view. Her touch turned everything to gold. Behind her seat bags filled with coin were piled up to the ceiling. On her right and on her left the floor was hidden by pyramids of guineas. On a sudden the door flies open, the Pretender rushes in, a sponge in one hand, in the other a sword, which he shakes at the Act of Settlement. The beautiful Queen sinks down fainting; the spell by which she has turned all things around her into treasure is broken; the money-bags shrink like pricked bladders; the piles of gold pieces are turned into bundles of rags, or fagots of wooden tallies."
 
My source is the Bank of England Act and The Old and New London by Walter Thornbury.

An extract from the book;

I'll try and find that, cheers. It's hard to imagine a Government and Royal instrument not going through the machinery of Government. I suspect that it is why prominence is given to him as the architect and part founder and subsequent director.
 
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I thought they actually sung God Save the Queen at Rangers games.

Which reminds me of the plan by Celtic supporters to sing Flower Of Scotland whenever the Rangers fans would start up with Rule Brittania or God Save The Queen. :D

Anyhoo, does anyone else see England as a confused nation? Constantly patronising and deriding the Scots but not wanting to let us go. Make your mind up.
 
Anyhoo, does anyone else see England as a confused nation? Constantly patronising and deriding the Scots but not wanting to let us go. Make your mind up.
Yes, yes indeed, the entire English nation is confused... Did you use your best patronising voice for that? :confused:

Interesting you manage to patronise the Welsh and Northern Irish as having no interest or say in the Union, it's just the nasty English.

In terms of "let us go", having listened to the arguments I can understand why Scottish nationalists would find the notion of independence attractive. I'd fully support that as well, although it would have to be full independence, not the wishy washy "have your cake and eat it picking the bits you like to be devolved and keeping the other stuff if it's to our benefit" proposals the SNP seem to currently favour.

There's no reason why Scotland, much the same as Eire shouldn't have full independence from the rest of the UK if that is what the majority votes for, including total autonomy for defence, trade, health, finance etc. I'd also suggest the referendum took the opportunity to include a second vote on a completely independent Scotland remaining inside, or leaving the EU at the same time should the majority vote for independence.

If a move to full independence really has the support of the majority of the Scottish people then hold a referendum on it in 6 months time and give the people the opportunity to have a real voice instead of all the popularist personal empire building politics going on at the moment. Either way it settles the issue rather than Scottish politicians using it as a hollow threat to beat the rest of the UK over the head every time they want something.
 
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I'd prefer Midlands/north/Wales/Scotland & Ireland (republic & northern) to form a new union.

Leave the London & the south to the Tory scum ;) - rename it Little England (it's people being little englanders.
 
I'd prefer Midlands/north/Wales/Scotland & Ireland (republic & northern) to form a new union.

Leave the London & the south to the Tory scum ;) - rename it Little England (it's people being little englanders.
You'd have to give Cornwall independence and membership of the new Union as well - maybe a long bridge from Bude to Swansea to avoid the rest of the south. ;-)
 
Can Cornwall declare independence?

Part of Devon would work as well, as the semi-independent nature of the area dates back to the Dumnonii tribal lands during the Roman period. They didn't really Romanise. They were under Roman rule, but the only Roman-style buildings found in the area are forts and maybe a couple of key industrial sites that might have been under the direct control of the empire.

Britain could be split up in many ways, depending on how far you go back. No doubt the splits would be a bit different before recorded history as well - it's rather unlikely that the tribal areas just popped up fully formed and without being disputed.
 
It's only a matter of time before the Welsh demand the return of the lost lands of Lloegyr along with a large chunk of the north of England and Southern Scotland. ;)

In fact those lines of demarcation might fit well for Elmarkos new Union :D

323px-Britain.peoples.original.traditional.jpg
 
Im not going to explain it outright, but people should already know what im about to say.

The reason i want the Union to disband and reunite is simply to solve human nature, everyone in the UK already realises the problem when they go to another nation in the Union, euphemisms are slung at you and these tiny little statements/jokes whatever that get passed around damages the Union constantly.

Its one of the reasons why the SNP are in power, but not as a main reason, but a subconscious one that people simply acknowledge...but would never say out loud, as it would imply a great unfortunate reality.

Humans can never be oppressed for long and some people see the Union as an oppressive entity, especially for Scots, even if ignorance plays a role in it for those people, its still an opinion that carries along the population, events such as thatcher and labours rule give it more credibility as well.

Peoples patience is running very thin, even if some English folk want the nostalgia of holding onto an empire that no longer exists, its not worth the potential violence that could erupt in the future.

The Act of disbanding and reuniting (I think its a good measure) by choice of both sides (rather than one man deciding it all to save him self embarrassment 300 years ago...not the best way a union should start) should solidify itself, of course the problem with it is that its a large exhausting change that most UK dwellers wouldn't care about, most being largely stupid (Offence is up to you ultimately).

Though the reward of transparency, the feeling of a new age, enhanced liberty and so on, i feel is worth it.

TL;DR...Nostalgia creating subconscious idea of oppression by ignorance, the feeling growing and passing further along the population creating a disdain for the Union, should be solved by a more Cooperative Union.
 
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