The VAT rise.

Clothes get bought once and worn for years - if you buy expensive designer (or even M&S) labels or buy clothes for fun, that's not essential.

A kettle can be had for a few quid, if you want an expensive one that is not essential. Again they also last for years.

What essential foods are not zero rated? Cake isn't essential. And yes I agree the rules are arbitrary and sometimes outdated but largely they are sensible.

Furniture again last for years and can also be bought second hand (with no vat).

If you are poor you shouldn't pay much VAT. If you think you are poor and spend a lot of your income on vat rated goods you are not as poor as you think or have a spending compulsion.

The biggest truth is spending on luxury goods by the poor is largely alcohol and tobacco, both of which already attract so much tax that the small change in vat rate will make little difference.
 
The point is though that you do pay VAT on some essentials so if you are on a low income it is going to impact you harder than if you are on a high income.
 
Hades said:
You know what, I never thought of that. I was pretty unconcerned but just realised I'll be moving house in the next two years and that's a lot of money. I think there may be a way around it though... I assume that if you use a solicitor in another EU country then VAT isn't applicable?
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You'll have to pay the VAT of that EU country at whatever their local rate is.

While we're on that subject, I think you can avoid stamp duty by wrapping the property into an offshore company and then buying the shares in the company instead.
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In a way, yes. Stamp Duty on the transfer of shares is only 0.5%. The ongoing administration and fees involved in doing it wouldn't be cheap, so you'd have to make sure the benefit outweighs this - hence this is only really how a lot of multi-million houses in London are bought and sold.
 
Energize said:
So your agreeing with us then that you do pay the full VAT rate on many essentials...

As I said earlier in the thread:

  • Petrol
  • Clothes
  • Furniture
  • Kitchen Appliances
  • Toiletries
  • Many items of food
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No.

Poor people don't buy clothes, furniture or appliances every month. They make do, you can even get them second hand (oh the middle class guy just threw up).

Petrol (or diesel) is only an essential if you're a taxi driver, the rest of us can catch a bus to work. If you work too far away move or get a closer job. I hear some people even walk or cycle, amazing.

Toiletries are cheap, look at the supermarket own brand ones, you don't need lynx.

So considering I disagree with nearly everything you say regardless of your arrogant and rude assumptions what are these items of food that are essential and you pay vat on?

In case you missed it as it seems difficult questions are often ignored here - what essential food stuffs are you paying VAT on?
 
Telescopi said:
No.

Poor people don't buy clothes, furniture or appliances every month. They make do, you can even get them second hand (oh the middle class guy just threw up).
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Irrelevant.

Petrol (or diesel) is only an essential if you're a taxi driver, the rest of us can catch a bus to work. If you work too far away move or get a closer job. I hear some people even walk or cycle, amazing.
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VAT is charged on bikes, and public transport often costs more than driving as does moving which is not realistic, neither is getting another job.

Toiletries are cheap, look at the supermarket own brand ones, you don't need lynx.
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Again irrelevant.

what are these items of food that are essential and you pay vat on?
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Nuts.
Water.
Bread products (in certain circumstances).
Rice products (in certain preparations).

There's a actually a full list here.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...id=HMCE_CL_000118&propertyType=document#P7_37

However all food should be exempt because the taste is irrelevant to it's nutritional value, chocolate can be better value in terms of energy than vat exempt foods.

It's a fact that we pay vat on essentials, you can disagree all you like but you would be incorrect.
 
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Energize said:
It's a fact that we pay vat on essentials, you can disagree all you like but you would be incorrect.
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Simply saying 'irrelevant' isnt a means to winsome support for what you're saying.

Love the list of essential foods. I'd be lost, nay approaching famine, without my nuts....
 
I still fail to see how are most of those essential?

You don't exactly hear people complaining about a VAT increase because they have to buy £100s of furniture every week?! I haven't bought any furniture or clothing for about a year! I can afford to, but my house doesn't need more furniture, and I have no huge interest in fashion and my existing clothes aren't exactly worn out. I don't see how it's 'irrelevant' to point out these aren't essential purchases - they're not! You make do with what you've got.

Nuts are zero rated as long as they're not prepared, Water comes out of a tap and is zero rated, and Bread and Rice is nearly always zero-rated - if you wan't them prepared, prepare them yourself. It's not essential to have someone else do it for you. You can live perfectly well off foods that are zero rated - you can't really argue that (to pick a few) eating meat, fish, vegetables and fruit is an unbalanced diet. I could easily live for a year on 'essential' foods only... which would rather highlight that the other 'luxury' items aren't... essential.

I wouldn't have said a 2.1% increase on bog roll and tooth paste is particularly devastating. Asda sell toilet roll for 12.8p, so that's a massive 0.2p rise. Or 1p for every 5 rolls you buy - which is what, probably 1p per month, being generous? Tooth paste sells for 17p a tube, so a similar rise.
 
The_Abyss said:
Simply saying 'irrelevant' isnt a means to winsome support for what you're saying.
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I'm not interest in winning support, just laying out the facts. :)

csmager said:
I still fail to see how are most of those essential?

You don't exactly hear people complaining about a VAT increase because they have to buy £100s of furniture every week?! I haven't bought any furniture or clothing for about a year! I can afford to, but my house doesn't need more furniture, and I have no huge interest in fashion and my existing clothes aren't exactly worn out. I don't see how it's 'irrelevant' to point out these aren't essential purchases - they're not! You make do with what you've got.
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Regardless of how often you purchase said items they are essential to own, thus vat is paid on essentials. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand.
 
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This country relies heavily on tax to generate its income and as much as i dislike it the vat increase is by far the one id rather have. More consideration will have to be made before making large purchases, if you cant stomach the hike don't bye, if you must have it bye the model down to absorb the rise, its all personal choice.... the government are basically saying here is the rise its down to you how you pay into it.

What needs to be done and what seems to escape all the people who complain about these tax's is we need to invest in this country, develop growth in sectors that can benefit import and export, start creating areas that develop incomes to relieve the strain our survival puts on the taxation system.

The only negative effect i could see the vat rise creating is if people do start to hold of these big purchases and the population do make a u-turn on spending habits is the detrimental effect to the the businesses and the revenue they generate for this country, sort of a recession solution that perpetuates the recession.

Fact is this will impact peoples lives, silly to say it wont its just down to people how they take to adjusting spending habits and quality of life to balance there expectations from there income

Just my 2p, before vat :D
 
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It blows my mind how we have no cash... the amount we all pay into the system must be incredible - yet there's a need for more?

Don't get it.
 
steve-h said:
It blows my mind how we have no cash... the amount we all pay into the system must be incredible - yet there's a need for more?

Don't get it.
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we have no other income for the country to function on, on top of this we have a deficit to clear and on top of that we need to try and sustain growth aswell, is it that hard to understnd???

Do poeple really not understand just how much our whole benefit system, NHS, Armed forces, school system and multiple other backbone dependencies this country has churns through, the money comes from us hence the need to encourage and invest in growth of other incomes, tax is to us what fossil fuel is to the earth, theres only so much you can take without bleeding us dry and so alternative fuels must be found to ease the strain.
 
I'll admit I haven't read all of the 6 pages to this thread.....

But this forth coming VAT increase is down to one person & one person only, ok, I'll be fair, not only Mr Brown, but Labour.

At some point they would have had to do it, but they never had the balls to.

People might moan, but it's needed, or rather was needed a long time ago to help balance the books. Suppose it doesn't help when you sell off the countries gold reserve, when gold prices are the worst they've been on record!

But, the thing that made me laugh at the time it was in the news on BBC (I think) was when they tried to show was how worse off we would all be....

If I recall they showed what the effect was on a Blue Ray Disc, something else, and a £90+ shirt

The thing that made laugh was if you're going to pay £90+ for a shirt, you clearly aren't that bothered about 20% VAT!!!
 
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One of the benefits to VAT rises - and an important one - is an increase in cash flow for small companies. They in effect get a 3 month interest free loan from the government.

Assuming 30k sales a month, by the end of month 4 (When VAT is due for months 1 thru 3) they'll have 18k (minus VAT out of course) in cash in the bank.

The smaller the company the more beneficial it can be - it's often cash flow that kills startups and the smaller companies rather than outright profit figures.

Personally - I doubt I'll notice much difference. I also think taxing people who *for the most part* buy more 'non-essentials' is not really that bad an idea. Will I notice an extra 2.5% on the next big screen telly I buy? Or expensive car? Not readily so I don't think.
 
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