The Views of the Iraqi People

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:30

Right, you can either beleive this post, or not beleive it, that i leave up to you.

After many people have been asking me for more information as to why i feel that i know something about what the people of Iraq feel about the Saddam regime and the War (which hadnt yet started, but was impending when the information was gathered), i have decided to ask the organisation concerned (The Home Office) if i may publish some of the findings.

They gave me some rules to adhere to, ie no names, use only age brackets of 10 years, no location, no direct quoting etc.

This is from a project i was invloved in university with, for the university. Here is a sample (taken from 100 views)
___________________________
20-30 year old Female Iraqi - Came here in December 2002.

She said Saddam must go, she was sick of all the time wasting. She said 12 years was a ridiculous amount of time for action to be taken. If we take no action we are as bad as Saddam. Some of her family suffered torture due to the rest of the family leaving. She broke down in tears.
___________________________
40-50 year old Male Iraqi - Came here in December 2002.

Saddam has done so many things you(western people) could not even imagine. He had to flee to save his life. He wants the UK to take military action right now to get the Baath Party out of power. He wants to return to his home in Iraq as soon as is safe for him to do so.
___________________________
50-60 year old Iraqi Woman - Came here in November 2002.

(Was very angry) Said we are all wasting time. Everyday that goes in fighting about whether there should be a war, scores of people are being killed by Baath officials. Had personally seen her own daughter being hung from a lampost. Body was left there for days. Iraqi people live in fear day in day out. Whole villages live in fear of massacre, individuals live in fear of what they say.
___________________________

There is obviously much more info on this, but i am running short on time at the moment.

Out of all 100:
100 wanted Saddam removed.
92 said war was the Only way.
98 said war was right.
75 said they beleive Saddam still has WMD
52 said they beleive he would use them if given a chance.
only 17 thought the Iraqi Army would carry out the orders.
100 said the majority of Iraqi's in Iraq felt the same, but are too scared to leave.

There is much much more, i just can't post it all.

Make what you will of this, it is for your information.

Mal

Murf · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:32

Very interesting and not suprising to me. I hope they get their country the way they want it after this.

roboffer · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:35

Originally posted by Over Clocker
20-30 year old Female Iraqi - Came here in December 2003.

40-50 year old Male Iraqi - Came here in December 2003.

50-60 year old Iraqi Woman - Came here in November 2003.

Need those dates fixing

Ive tried to stay our of the war threads as much as possible on here, but I totally understand wh ythe nation would want rid of a tyrant like that. It doesnt suprise me one bit.

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:40

Re: Re: The Views of the Iraqi People

Originally posted by Rob "Hooah!" Offer
Need those dates fixing

Ive tried to stay our of the war threads as much as possible on here, but I totally understand wh ythe nation would want rid of a tyrant like that. It doesnt suprise me one bit.

Cheers for the heads up mate, dates sorted

R34pz · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:43

There is no disputing that the iraqis want rid of saddams cruel regime. I think the main issue here is that they dont want the U.S governing or putting their puppets in place of him.
(anyone remember afghanistan???)

Hellsmk2 · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:45

Originally posted by Over Clocker
snip

A few points on this, and using what my Histroy degree has taught me to be: Objective.

I'm guessing these people are all in the UK (for you to interview them). It's good that they're free to voice their opinion over here, but let muddle people up who fled the country as a justification for war. These are sources likely to suggest such things.

I can safely say that the majority of the Iraqi's want rid of Saddam. If you did this survey in Iraq (theoretically with Iraqi's able to give their opinion), I'm sure you'd find the majority said they wanted rid of Saddam. I'm also sure you'd find a large majority who did not want war as the means to topple him.

This is not very different from the "89% of people suupport war" poll of last week (which was in fact "89% of people support seeing the war through to the end".... a very different meaning).

Your report is not objective plain and simple. You also have to take into account the fact that many Iraqi's do not know the misery and pain that we (the UK and the US) have been responisble for. I could go on, but I've already ansewered your posts in SC too (plus I'm off out).

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:47

Originally posted by R34pz
There is no disputing that the iraqis want rid of saddams cruel regime. I think the main issue here is that they dont want the U.S governing or putting their puppets in place of him.
(anyone remember afghanistan???)

I've got a few "quotes" on that subject.

They basically say that they want to have the oportunity to vote in their own leader, but also know that for quite some time a US Chosen government will be in place to place order into society.

Remember, the Iraqi people are not stupid in their views, most of the older generatio are very, very well educated. They seem to know (perhaps better than most westerners) that it takes time before a proper Iraqi government can be placed in power.

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:51

Re: Re: The Views of the Iraqi People

Originally posted by Hellsmk2
snip snip

Fair points mate, and most do not WANT a war (who does?? tbh) but at the same time, most do actualy see it as the only way out.

The have not known freedom now for 30 years. These are not people who are living here, they are people who have temporarily come here in the last 2-4 months, people who have homes in Iraq, families in Iraq, and life in Iraq.

R34pz · 10 Apr 2003 at 14:57

Indeed Over Clocker but what gives america the right to decide another countries government or the way in which they are ruled ???
They have taken it on themselves to start/run this war and afterwards the country,snubbing any country that dare oppose their omnipotence calling them traitors (France, Germany the obvious two).

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:00

Originally posted by R34pz
Indeed Over Clocker but what gives america the right to decide another countries government or the way in which they are ruled ???
They have taken it on themselves to start/run this war and afterwards the country,snubbing any country that dare oppose their omnipotence calling them traitors (France, Germany the obvious two).

That isnt what this thread is about mate

. No one has the right to determine the government of another country, alothough some have an obligation to get rid of opresive regimes.

This isnt an anti/pro war thread about America.

It is about what the Iraqi's feel.

R34pz · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:05

I wasnt being anti-war Over Clocker you mistake my meaning

I was pointing out that the iraqi people must indeed be happy to finally be getting rid of saddams dictatorship. But at the same time are worried about being forced to become america's playground once it is all over.

punky_munky · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:09

So that's the views of Iraqi people who have come to this country? I'm sure there are plenty of loyalists over there too.

MindYerBeak · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:12

Originally posted by R34pz
Indeed Over Clocker but what gives america the right to decide another countries government or the way in which they are ruled ???
They have taken it on themselves to start/run this war and afterwards the country,snubbing any country that dare oppose their omnipotence calling them traitors (France, Germany the obvious two).

This isn't an American Hate thread, it's about what ex-Iraqis feel about their homeland. All you are doing is spreading anti-American feelings, not taking into consideration how the Iraqis themselves feel about the situation. Forget your USA hatred for a moment and see how Iraqis view their homeland, not your hatred, which does the Iraqis no good.

Good post, Mr. Overclocker, sir. More examples, if you please, should you have the time or authority, to help put the USA Haters in their rightful place.

MindYerBeak · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:14

Originally posted by punky_munky
So that's the views of Iraqi people who have come to this country? I'm sure there are plenty of loyalists over there too.

Then please quote them and prove the arguments wrong, good sir.

R34pz · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:17

MYB I have never said I hate America, I fear America there is a difference....

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:17

One thing, they are not the views of Ex-Iraqi's, they are still Iraqi's. They have just come here for a few months to save their lives (Red Crescent/Cross sorted it).

I will try and sumarise a few more people's quote's in the next few hours guys, a bit short of time atm.

Also, the views of these people is in no way one sided. Some of these people actually worked under the regime etc etc. Not much more i can unfortunately though, as you can imagine, its all pretty confidential for good reason.

punky_munky · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:39

Originally posted by MindYerBeak
Then please quote them and prove the arguments wrong, good sir.

I'm not trying to be Mr. Debate, I am sure that the vast majority of Iraqis don't like the regime, I just think Overclockers figures are slightly skewed. I do not believe 100% of Iraqis want Saddam gone. That's all.

Sharknose · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:40

MYB.

Just because someone expresses some concerns about the war (rather than being 100%, well 99% pro-war) doesn't automatically make them anti-American, does it :confused:

OK, take for example yesterday during the live (and excellent) footage of the statue falling down.
Remember the Iraqi exile in the studio. He was very happy with the statue coming down because of the whole symbolism of what it meant was happening. Yet, at the same time he still is worried about the US's true intentions, as demonstrated by his displeasure (he wasn't angry per say) at the American flag going up. Now, just because he didn't like that American flag going up, because of the symbolism of conquering it invoked, it still doesn't mean that the chap is anti-American.
The Iraqi gentleman was very pleased that the Americans (and Brits) are helping liberating his country, but he still reserves the right to have concerns as well.

Lets take a MASSIVE hypothetical situation here. Imagine that the UK had be conquered by the Germans in WW2. However, the UK government in exile (in Canada) and the US decided to liberate us. Now, sure, we would be glad to get rid of the German oppressors, and would be grateful to the Americans for doing this..... but wouldn't their be a nagging thought in the back of your mind about the Americans only doing for their gain?? You wouldn't hate the Americans per say, but you'd be wary of them.

Now thats whats kinda happening now. Sure, there are people on this forum who are purely anti-war/anti-USA. However, some people are in the middle ground. They are pointing out flaws in the arguments of BOTH sides of the 100% pro/anti brigades.

Overclockers quotes were indeed accurate (and personally feel that they represent a LARGE proportion of the Iraqi population). But were they objective.... not completly I'm afraid.

Bear · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:41

Originally posted by Over Clocker
One thing, they are not the views of Ex-Iraqi's, they are still Iraqi's. They have just come here for a few months to save their lives (Red Crescent/Cross sorted it).

Oh so its now convienient to believe what the asylum seekers have to say hey. Only a little while all asylum seekers were money grabbing scrounging scum to some on here !!! Now it backs your agruements they are all truthful honest people. Sheesh.

Im not directing this at any particular but you must know who you are.

Over Clocker · 10 Apr 2003 at 15:41

Originally posted by punky_munky
I'm not trying to be Mr. Debate, I am sure that the vast majority of Iraqis don't like the regime, I just think Overclockers figures are slightly skewed. I do not believe 100% of Iraqis want Saddam gone. That's all.

Nor do i, but 100 out of 100 of those involoved did. i beleive it is pretty close to 100 % in Iraq though. Even his RG, SRG and ministers seem to have legged it.