the volkswagen up!

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:34

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/futures/up
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/335/the-new-up!---small-but-perfectly-formed

when i had my lupo serviced 3 weeks ago, i got to to discussing with the service advisor what a useless car i thought the fox was and why they scrapped the lupo?. his colleague overheard this and she asked me if i'd heard of the up! i said no, she said have a look at the poster on the window on the way out. i forgot to do this and forgot all about it until i read yesterdays ingear supplement in the times.

check the link out, what do you reckon? ok i'm a vw fan but i think the 3 door looks very good and apparently there are 3 standards of trim, the most basic of which starts at £8k that's £8k for a brand new vw! can't be bad .... can it?

[TW]Fox · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:37

I don't really see what makes the Lupo any better than the Fox? Both look pretty nasty things?

Gilly · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:39

[TW]Fox;19888874 said:
I don't really see what makes the Lupo any better than the Fox? Both look pretty nasty things?

I can see a point really. They're the same grotty little car, why replace one with another?

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:40

[TW]Fox;19888874 said:
I don't really see what makes the Lupo any better than the Fox? Both look pretty nasty things?

have you driven any of them?

the vw lupo is a class act imo a modern mk1 golf, like driving a go kart, the fox is nothing like this

[TW]Fox · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:41

They are not the same, as for the other bit why replace the fiesta with a new one? Why introduce a new passat?

[TW]Fox · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:42

cm1179 said:
have you driven any of them?

the vw lupo is a class act imo a modern mk1 golf, like driving a go kart, the fox is nothing like this

Modern? Did it not come out 13 years ago?

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:44

[TW]Fox;19888918 said:
They are not the same,

the fox replaced the lupo, like the corrado replaced the scirocco, (even though vw have ressurected the scirocco name), even though they are both coupés, they're completely different. the lupo and fox are small city runarounds but leagues apart.

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:45

[TW]Fox;19888929 said:
Modern? Did it not come out 13 years ago?

it came out around the same time as a mk4 golf which was about twice as heavy as mk1 golf.

Gilly · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:45

[TW]Fox;19888918 said:
They are not the same, as for the other bit why replace the fiesta with a new one? Why introduce a new passat?

Yeah, but a new Fiesta is still a Fiesta.

I though the Fox was the Lupo's replacement. Is it not?

[TW]Fox · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:45

Leagues apart? LOL

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:46

[TW]Fox;19888955 said:
Leagues apart? LOL

have you driven either?

[TW]Fox · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:47

Gilly said:
Yeah, but a new Fiesta is still a Fiesta.

I though the Fox was the Lupo's replacement. Is it not?

Yes, but it replaced the Lupo in the same way the current fiesta replaced the old one, only Volkswagen decided to replace the name too.

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:49

[TW]Fox;19888969 said:
Yes, but it replaced the Lupo in the same way the current fiesta replaced the old one, only Volkswagen decided to replace the name too.

then what was the point you were trying to make?

[TW]Fox · 22 Aug 2011 at 13:56

The point I am trying to make is crystal clear?

Lets break it down.

a) The Fox replaced the Lupo in the same way the new Fiesta replaced the old Fiesta or the new Passat replaced the old Passat, the only difference being VW elected to give it a new name as well. It's still one A segment city car being replaced by a newer design of A segment city car from the same manufacturer. Don't be fooled by name changes. The Insignia and Vectra are as much part of the same heritage as one Toyota Corolla and another, despite the name change, for example. This is why stats like 'The Toyota Corolla is the longest running production car' - yea, because they've attached the name Corolla to about 20 completely different cars over the years whereas Ford and Vauxhall change names every 15 or so years in that segment. Sure, the Fox is a different car to the Lupo but then the Mk4 Mondeo is a different car to the Mk3 and the E90 3 Series a different car to the E46 - thats what happens when a car is replaced. The new one is different - if it isnt then its merely a facelift not a new model.

b) The Fox is not 'leagues apart' from the Lupo. It cannot be because they are still fundamentally doing the same thing for the same market at the same sort of pricepoint. Sure, it might have lost some handling polish over the Lupo (Though does the Lupo really have that? It's hard to tell as the VW 'scene' is so ridiculously fanboyish you'd be forgiven everything they make is some sort of Lotus Elise rival. I honestly think the VW scene could pitch up to a Golf MkV on 19 inch Bentley wheels versu Ferrari F430 handling day and rate the Golf higher)

c) The 'point' in the Fox replacing the Lupo, which Gilly questioned, was the same as the 'point' in any car being replaced by a newer version - the Lupo reached the end of its product lifecycle, it was discontinued, and a new model was introduced, only for whatever reason they decided on a new name to go with it.

I agree that the Fox isn't all that. But then why would it be - neither was the Lupo. Both are just small entry level towncars?

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 14:04

[TW]Fox;19889056 said:
b) The Fox is not 'leagues apart' from the Lupo. It cannot be because they are still fundamentally doing the same thing for the same market at the same sort of pricepoint

i disagree. they may be fundamentally a city car but this does not mean they cannot be leagues apart.

Tute · 22 Aug 2011 at 14:04

Looking at the VW Up!, do car companies aim to make their concept cars look as utterly atrocious as possible? I hope to god we aren't all driving around in cars looking like that in thirty years. :/

NathWraith · 22 Aug 2011 at 14:06

The VW fox is terrible car made for the southern american market, they are even built in brazil if I remember correctly.

From what I have read, the Lupo was a reasonable car, whereas the general consensus about the Fox is that it is pretty poor.

Whether it was a direct replacement for the Lupo, well who knows.

The "Up" is an electric car anyway, with a rear mounted motor? So doesn't seem like a replacement for the Fox just another model in the range, similar to where Nissan place the Leaf, similar to a Micra but not a replacement as electric cars are no where near mainstream enough yet.

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 14:12

NathWraith said:
The "Up" is an electric car anyway, with a rear mounted motor? .

there will be an electric version but they are primarily 3 cylinder petrol engines and will be mainstream as they are available in the autumn.

ubersonic · 22 Aug 2011 at 14:14

cm1179 said:
i disagree. they may be fundamentally a city car but this does not mean they cannot be leagues apart.

Agreed, according to ford the new Fiesta is their replacement for the old one, but in reality it fills a gap between the old one and the Focus, the place of the old Fiesta is filled by the new KA and the place of the old KA is now vacant.

cm1179 · 22 Aug 2011 at 14:16

ubersonic said:
Agreed, according to ford the new Fiesta is their replacement for the old one, but in reality it fills a gap between the old one and the Focus, the place of the old Fiesta is filled by the new KA and the place of the old KA is now vacant.

i don't even know if there is a market for the golf and the polo these days. the new polo is a great car but is it really that disimilar to a golf in terms of what a person would need it for? one of the two could find themselves defunct.