The younger generation.

[Terminal_Boy]

Nope, the wife and I raised our 2 daughters to be productive members of society and they're currently both working part-time jobs to pay their way through university.

While we will help them out as much as possible with accommodation costs, deposits for cars and houses (hopefully a few years off), they know that their destiny is in their hands and the magic money fairy doesn't exist.

As for the rest of their generation, they're not my responsibility and if they chose to waz their lives up the wall; that's their problem, not mine.

 

[Faustus]

And what certain posters appear to be doing is absolving their generation of any of the blame for the predicament we're in now.

I'm not poor, I had a privileged upbringing. I work hard, I earn well and will hopefully retire well as a result.

I still see the older generations doing their level best to remove the privileges they had from the younger generations.

Could you perhaps put a name to these people? I'm sure they do not do so in my name.

 

[M3G4UK]

I think the worst thing people seem to be doing is saying today's generation (which I guess I *just* fall into as I was born in 1987) are lazy and unmotivated and "expect everything on a plate".

Let's just put this into perspective here, and stop pointing the finger at the people. It's pretty obvious the successive Con/Lab gov's have completely screwed todays generation over. For example:

- University Education was grant maintained and for all intents and purposes, free up until 1997. From 1997 onwards, the costs have risen from an initial £1,000 contribution to nearly £9,000. It was easier then for people to better themselves, ensuring later on in life they're less likely to hit the glass ceiling.

- House prices were nowhere near the heights in which they reached before the recession in 2008. They were, and are now beginning to again, sharply rise. Wages are not running in line and at this rate, home ownership will not be sustainable with a standard mortgage. 95% mortgages are already a neccesity as prices, especially in and around London (where a large majority of job vacancies are) are too high. 10-20% deposits are completely unobtainable without outside support. Those who benefitted from the Tory "right-to-buy" schemes for council houses haven't helped to artificially inflate prices, and you'll find a lot of those properties are now let at extortionate rates. Council houses are now scarce, let alone those available to buy at a ridiculously low price.

- The ConDem leadership has ensured a media storm has brewed branding the ever-increasing amount of impoverished individuals as "leeches" and turning the middle and lower-middle classes against them, despite the majority of ill-thought out government initiatives making sure people stay down. (Work experience scandal, anyone?)

- The government has made no effort to address the bias in political, economical and general bias toward the south (which has existed since the beginning). Despite massive population growth all over the UK, the economy and political bias is still incredibly focused on London - and if I, as a southerner born and bred, can see this, then something is most definitely wrong.

- The Conservatives have privatised many critical UK services throughout their successive times in power. The transport sector has gone from a public service to a profit-driven private service, where customer satisfaction and provisioning of services is of lower importance than the PR managers choice of sandwich for lunch, service satisfactions are laughably low, and with a growing population the lack of investment is showing at an astonishing rate. The same can also be said for the lack of investment in infrastructure for communications in the UK. BT is no longer out for public interest, it is out for profit. Government "broadband" initiatives are laughed at and so Fiber rollout for example, is incredibly slow. The NHS will be the next victim to suffer, and it has begun already.

I'm not going to go ballasting this with figures - anyone with common sense can see the points made and a quick google can bring thousands of figures to back them up.

 

[platypus]

You are also getting dirt cheap interest rates on your mortgages whilst pensioners relying on their savings for income are getting next to nothing.

You mean our mortgages that have been skewed significantly beyond earnings (whilst requiring a huge deposit), for those that are lucky enough to actually be able to get onto the housing ladder, rather than those already in it? A system that has been, and continues to be exploited in favour of those who were given the right to buy their council houses for next to nothing?

Pensioners are not the only people suffering, we are responsible savers and have had to put up with zero percent interest rates as well. I simply don't understand people using this as an example of why the older generation is hard done by, and the "youth of today". Pension goalposts were moved for you? Guess what - they've been moved for us! And will continue to be moved. A lot of you paid into two pensions that have been eroded by poor interest rates, government policies and economic/market forces? Guess what! A lot of us pay into two pensions that are being eroded by poor interest rates, government policies and economic/market forces.

In fact, every one of your points in this post could be applied to people of my generation, the difference being that on top of this, we're the ones who have had free education, affordable housing and right to buy taken away from us.

 

[DR_Pingu]

1. I think if you go back to the start of this thread Mr Faustus stated that people down his local were having a discussion about the younger generation lacking a bit of fire in their bellies etc. There was also mention that many people today appear to be more interested in themselves and having the latest gadgets.

2. This I feel was quite a reasonable topic for discussion. However, many younger people in this thread immediately became defensive calling the older generation 'gits' and accusing people born after the war years up until 1955 of robbing the present generation and wanting everything for themselves.

That is a massive over generalisation and patently not true, nor does it recognise the privations that generation went through in order to secure improvements to living standards which we all enjoy today.

What certain posters appear to be saying is if I'm poor everyone else should be poor too. If my generation had taken that stance then where would society be today?

1. Funnily enough I see much of it myself. I'd say people in general are more ignorant and selfish nowadays, but I work with and know a good number of people who are good people when it comes to helping others, as well as managing their lives/future. I've been pretty focussed myself on ensuring I have a future for myself, as well as any children should I decide to have any in the future (but not until I know I can support my own livelihood). If you consider that selfish then I really don't know where to go from there. I don't need to justify myself against the others of my generation, I know I'm doing more than ~90% of people I know from school, the rest seem to be the type who'll scrounge off their parents with no real drive to better themselves.

2. If you look closely you'll actually see it's not only the younger generation who are being defensive here. I'm being defensive because I feel it's a tad unfair being called something I'm the complete opposite of - wouldn't you? Statistics and arguments are being thrown back and forth, all with legitimate reasoning behind as well as being backed up somewhat.

Nope, the wife and I raised our 2 daughters to be productive members of society and they're currently both working part-time jobs to pay their way through university.

While we will help them out as much as possible with accommodation costs, deposits for cars and houses (hopefully a few years off), they know that their destiny is in their hands and the magic money fairy doesn't exist.

As for the rest of their generation, they're not my responsibility and if they chose to waz their lives up the wall; that's their problem, not mine.

^Which speaks volumes about your generations level of parenting. It's a revolving cycle - terrible parents (generally) raise terrible kids, who will in-turn raise terrible kids and so on - and probably have too many so they can scrounge as much as possible off the tax payer. There's enough terrible parenting from my generation raising the next. The mindset predominantly stems from the parent, then there are small factors such are school friends, as well as the schools, which play a role too.

 

[balky12]

You are also getting dirt cheap interest rates on your mortgages whilst pensioners relying on their savings for income are getting next to nothing.

You're right. We can benefit from low interest rates, not that low though, it's not like banks use the base line as their mortgage rates.

Before we can do that we have to have a 10% -15% deposit. Average house price in England is around £250k. So I need a £25k - £37k deposit.

Also banks only let you borrow around 4x your income... so before you can get the required loan you will need a salary of £50k.

it's not that easy..

 

[DR_Pingu]

When I listen to younger people at work discussing finances, mortgages and aspirations etc. I often think I have slipped into a parallel universe.

They talk about borrowing what I think are staggering amounts of money to fund their dream lives without any thought to what might happen if things go wrong. They borrow up to the max without building any contingency into their plans.

There's a world of difference between aspiration and unrealistic expectations.

Again, you see this daily in the papers (I don't buy them, sod funding the liars) and again, I see it from some people in my own life. I myself on the other hand actively ensure I have the ability to pay off any "debts" or credits I may decide to take out beforehand. If something is not achievable then it's as simple as I won't get it.

Once I've finished my apprenticeship I will be looking to get my own house - my parents will probably help me with the deposit, as you know parents like to help and support their children as much as possible - as Terminal has proven here also - but the wage I'm on I've decided to get myself a "new" car (3rd car, each paid for out of my own earnings) and most recently a new PC (on a credit card, because who doesn't enjoy 0% purchases and a boost of their credit rating - after all, you need one to get a fair mortgage).

 

[M3G4UK]

^Which speaks volumes about your generations level of parenting. It's a revolving cycle - terrible parents (generally) raise terrible kids, who will in-turn raise terrible kids and so on - and probably have too many so they can scrounge as much as possible off the tax payer. There's enough terrible parenting from my generation raising the next. The mindset predominantly stems from the parent, then there are small factors such are school friends, as well as the schools, which play a role too.

I would argue that parents gifting their children 'magic money' for house deposits and car deposits is bad parenting also.

What does that teach them? Don't bother saving because Mummy and Daddy will stump up the cash?

 

[balky12]

I would argue that parents gifting their children 'magic money' for house deposits and car deposits is bad parenting also.

What does that teach them? Don't bother saving because Mummy and Daddy will stump up the cash?

They had to save pretty hard to have that kind of spare cash laying around. Kids will be very appreciative, I know I would.

Kid can then spend money on nicer things.
Parents can get that warm fuzzy feeling knowing they have made a big difference.
Kid thinks what an awesome life I have had, might think I would love to do that for my kids.
Kid has kids.
Kid saves hard for his kids.
Kid saves up enough for kids deposits.
Kid now has same warm fuzzy feeling that his parents once did.

Moral of the story. Kid learnt how to save.

 

[DR_Pingu]

I would argue that parents gifting their children 'magic money' for house deposits and car deposits is bad parenting also.

What does that teach them? Don't bother saving because Mummy and Daddy will stump up the cash?

To some, yes, others, no.

Example: Myself - My parents have offered to help me with a deposit when I'm able to get my own house. Once I've finished my apprenticeship I believe my beginning wage will be enough to afford my own house/mortgage, and with the prospects for promotion looking very healthy after just one promotion I will undoubtedly comfortable. I get things when I know they're affordable to ME, not my parents, not simply when I 'want' them.

A friend of mine - also on the apprenticeship - Has just recently had opened a trust fund from his parents, approximately £250k - I know this because he brags about it to everyone... yes, even girls. In less than 1 year he's spent what I'd estimate to be around £15k on smoking... and drinking. A few other apprentices have ripped our hair out questioning why he doesn't buy a house which will leave him with more than plenty left over and then rent the spare rooms to the people who he's currently renting with. To add, he'll take £3k out of his trust fund, and then ask for more money from his parents. What's worse? They actually comply...

 

[DR_Pingu]

They had to save pretty hard to have that kind of spare cash laying around. Kids will be very appreciative, I know I would.

Kid can then spend money on nicer things.
Parents can get that warm fuzzy feeling knowing they have made a big difference.
Kid thinks what an awesome life I have had, might think I would love to do that for my kids.
Kid has kids.
Kid saves hard for his kids.
Kid saves up enough for kids deposits.
Kid now has same warm fuzzy feeling that his parents once did.

Moral of the story. Kid learnt how to save.

^Your moral = what my parents have taught me since I began working 9 years ago (whilst I was in year 8 at school). In fact, I even began selling sweets in year 7; was making ~£200 a month from it until I had to stop as the school were going to suspend me 1. Because of a lack of people going to the cafe at breaktime, and 2. Litter (understandable).

 

[platypus]

They had to save pretty hard to have that kind of spare cash laying around. Kids will be very appreciative, I know I would.

Kid can then spend money on nicer things.
Parents can get that warm fuzzy feeling knowing they have made a big difference.
Kid thinks what an awesome life I have had, might think I would love to do that for my kids.
Kid has kids.
Kid saves hard for his kids.
Kid saves up enough for kids deposits.
Kid now has same warm fuzzy feeling that his parents once did.

Moral of the story. Kid learnt how to save.

Except he's criticising the "younger generation" for having come to expect handouts, and then said in black and white he is prepared to give handouts for pretty much the two hardest things for young people to buy (I don't see a car as being remotely important but its still a significant cost). It's being selectively hypocritical to suit his point of view.

 

[Faustus]

You mean our mortgages that have been skewed significantly beyond earnings (whilst requiring a huge deposit), for those that are lucky enough to actually be able to get onto the housing ladder, rather than those already in it? A system that has been, and continues to be exploited in favour of those who were given the right to buy their council houses for next to nothing?

Pensioners are not the only people suffering, we are responsible savers and have had to put up with zero percent interest rates as well. I simply don't understand people using this as an example of why the older generation is hard done by, and the "youth of today". Pension goalposts were moved for you? Guess what - they've been moved for us! And will continue to be moved. A lot of you paid into two pensions that have been eroded by poor interest rates, government policies and economic/market forces? Guess what! A lot of us pay into two pensions that are being eroded by poor interest rates, government policies and economic/market forces.

In fact, every one of your points in this post could be applied to people of my generation, the difference being that on top of this, we're the ones who have had free education, affordable housing and right to buy taken away from us.

I wouldn't disagree with a lot of what you say. However, housing is about supply and demand and the demand is outstripping the supply. Watch part 2 of The Super Rich and Us tonight, if anything like last week it is most illuminating. Foreign investors are buying up huge swathes of land or property and forcing up prices to astronomical levels. This government would like to see all social housing out of London and the people warehoused somewhere/anywhere else.

You cannot deny that mortgage rates have never been cheaper. I just wish I was a bit older and could have gone for those pensioner bonds released today.

 

[balky12]

Except he's criticising the "younger generation" for having come to expect handouts, and then said in black and white he is prepared to give handouts for pretty much the two hardest things for young people to buy (I don't see a car as being remotely important but its still a significant cost). It's being selectively hypocritical to suit his point of view.

There is a truth to that I suppose. I know a few people that just expect it because their parents are in a position to. I also know people who's parents aren't but they still expect (It might just be wishful thinking)

Myself personally... I think my parents will help me out. But not 'there you go son, here is a deposit'. They will, I think, give me a wedge once I get my own house (almost there woop!!!!). This can then be spent on a new kitchen and the like.

I have come to this conclusion partly due to the fact I feel I am paying a lot of keep (compared to friends) and they are putting some of that aside for me. Secondly my parents are ****ing awesome.

I could be wrong.

 

[platypus]

I wouldn't disagree with a lot of what you say. However, housing is about supply and demand and the demand is outstripping the supply. Watch part 2 of The Super Rich and Us tonight, if anything like last week it is most illuminating. Foreign investors are buying up huge swathes of land or property and forcing up prices to astronomical levels. This government would like to see all social housing out of London and the people warehoused somewhere/anywhere else.

Foreign investors are not solely to blame. The older generations are also increasingly buying property to fund their retirement, making it even harder for younger people to get a foot on the ladder.

You cannot deny that mortgage rates have never been cheaper. I just wish I was a bit older and could have gone for those pensioner bonds released today.

I didn't deny that mortgage rates have never been cheaper. Conversely however, mortgages have never been more expensive, harder to obtain, nor have house prices ever been this expensive.

Pensioner bonds: another government scheme favouring the older generations...I wonder if they'll exist when I hit retirement age?

 

[Faustus]

Pensioner bonds: another government scheme favouring the older generations...I wonder if they'll exist when I hit retirement age?

Less you forget - people with mortgages have been getting them dirt cheap and still are since 2010 whereas pensioners have been getting almost nothing on their savings.

This is a recognition by the government that pensioners income is struggling due to the appalling savings rates. This scheme is designed to help ease the burden though it still isn't much.

 

[balky12]

Less you forget - people with mortgages have been getting them dirt cheap and still are since 2010 whereas pensioners have been getting almost nothing on their savings.

Not sure if you saw it. Or just chose to ignore it. The issue isn't cost of a mortgage once you have it, it's getting the mortgage.

Here it is again:

You're right. We can benefit from low interest rates, not that low though, it's not like banks use the base line as their mortgage rates.

Before we can do that we have to have a 10% -15% deposit. Average house price in England is around £250k. So I need a £25k - £37k deposit.

Also banks only let you borrow around 4x your income... so before you can get the required loan you will need a salary of £50k.

it's not that easy..

 

[Faustus]

Not sure if you saw it. Or just chose to ignore it. The issue isn't cost of a mortgage once you have it, it's getting the mortgage.

Here it is again:

You're right. We can benefit from low interest rates, not that low though, it's not like banks use the base line as their mortgage rates.

Before we can do that we have to have a 10% -15% deposit. Average house price in England is around £250k. So I need a £25k - £37k deposit.

Also banks only let you borrow around 4x your income... so before you can get the required loan you will need a salary of £50k.

it's not that easy..

Absolutely I saw it, but did you not see that I referred to those who already have mortgages.

Getting a mortgage has always been difficult. I started on an apprentices wage of £4.00 per week. I had to give all of that to my parents who then gave me some spending money in return. Now how would that go down with today's generation I wonder?

Our first house was £7,500 of which we had to put down 25%, so around £1900 pounds. That took some saving off our meagre wages I can tell you.

We also got the third degree from the building society manager who in those days even asked you personal questions about family planning.

 

[balky12]

Not that I don't believe you, I wasn't around then. But £4 a week? And you needed £1900 for a deposit? It would take you almost 10 years to save if you put everything away??

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Our first house was £7,500 of which we had to put down 25%, so around £1900 pounds. That took some saving off our meagre wages I can tell you.

We also got the third degree from the building society manager who in those days even asked you personal questions about family planning.

Our first house was £6000 back in 1980 and it was a fortune.
You'll also remember if we wanted a loan we had to take a guarantor along with us, be asked all sorts of questions and then it would take about 4 weeks before you got your money but I'll never forget the first time it was immediate.
I'd gone into the Carlsbro Sound Centre to buy to buy a piece of musical equipment for £450 and was asked a lot of questions. I then left the shop with the salesman asking where I was going so I said "You'll let me know when the loan comes through so I can pick it up?" and he said it had gone through and you can take it homw