Thinking about doing an MBA - any recommendations?

Soldato
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Morning all,

As per the title, I'm thinking about doing an MBA. I have a BEng from 2012 (I think) and I've been working at the same company since then. I'm a product manager, but I'm also responsible at a wider level for an SaaS product - not sure what title you'd give that.

I'm feeling a little out of my depth, and I'm conscious that I have no commercial knowledge other than what I've gained at work. It feels to me like doing a qualification would help me in that, and also be a boost for my personal development. I'm not 100% sure which type I would do. There seems to be a lot of different ones around. I'm involved in one product at a technical level, but I feel like I'm moving away from that more into product marketing and management. The product which I'm PM for is pretty small and therefore the management duties of that are quite slim.

I was just wondering if people had any thoughts or recommendations as I'm sure there are lots of professionals on here with MBAs.

Thanks in advance

dirtychinchilla
 
Soldato
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I go back and forth on the MBA question myself fairly regularly - I think a lot of it boils down to what do you wish to gain from completing it? More knowledge to apply in the workplace - great, but you can gain that knowledge in other, far cheaper ways - a qualification that will enable you to progress in your career - also a consideration, does the ROI stack up for a top quality MBA vs it allowing you to make the jump to a role or organisation you want?
I have had it in past development plans but life has always got in the way, I suspect I will look at it again in a few years time but at 33, I work in an specialist sales role for a large tech company - it would only really be useful if I wanted to pivot into another area (like product) or potentially move into leadership etc - I'm struggling on evidence that it would actually accelerate me more than continuing the path I am already on.

MBA's are traditionally for career switchers, entry into particular industries, and are a very American concept to me, dropping out of the workforce for a year, paying $$$ for a high status school almost as a calculated gamble on yourself that the investment (loss of earnings + cost) will pay off following completion. I don't think they hold anywhere near as much weight here in the UK.
Best example I can give is we have hired numerous MBA Graduates into specialist programmes at my last org, they all came in many grades lower than me with less relevant experience, and more often than not didn't progress to any sort of leadership position. They all ended up with great roles on very decent salaries, but nothing that couldn't have been achieved without the MBA.

Part of it is status for sure, but that requires going to and paying for, a well recognised university - have a look at some of the rankings in the UK. Being in Edinburgh I always look at their offering, also Strathclyde. I don't think the Executive MBAs and Part Time MBAs have as much weight so I do toy with the idea of doing the standard programme alongside my day job but I think with 2 children that's a near impossibility.
 
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I have 2 friends with MBAs and they both say it was well worth it in terms of the salary increases they received, however one is an economics lecturer and the other has a first in Business Management and is sales director of an international chemical company. Not sure but you might struggle with a degree in Engineering as the concepts are likely to be completely alien to you, in addition to which the students you are competing against are more likely to have business related degrees.

The cost is going to be expensive and if it isn't going to lead to progression it probably isn't worth it. However it will make you much more marketable when applying for new jobs, and they are very highly valued in America.

If you have no family commitments and a bit of money behind you I would say go for it.

Best place to ask this question is probably on the student room forums.
 
Soldato
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Thanks for your input guys. Some context, which may be relevant, is that I don't intend to leave my current company. I've been here almost 10 years (I'm also 33) and very much believe in what we're doing - we're essentially in energy. So for me it is personal development as in how can I be a better asset to the company. Ideally, when the bosses retire etc I'd like to be in one of the executive positions. It's a small company, so that logic may not necessarily stack up, but certainly I'd be up for one of those top jobs and I want to ensure I have the knowledge to actually do that.

I had a chat with my boss about it earlier and he was very supportive. It really comes down to cost for me - they might sponsor half of it. We're saving for IVF, so can I afford to pay the other half? Probably not. So then it's up to me to ask the company whether they'd fund it or not (at essentially £1k a month for 27 months).

@rumple9 I am worried about how conceptial it might be. Generally, conceptial stuff doesn't sit too well with me. But part of me thinks I just need to grow up and suck it up. If I want to be a business leader I need some more structure and to understand more concepts.
 
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Soldato
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When times were tough, I funded a lads MBA via deferred salary increases/golden handcuffs. If you are a "lifer" it may be worth suggesting it in that way to your employer i.e. they foot the full bill but next years pay rise is nill, or if you quit within 2 years you pay it back in full.

Worth noting that some of the bigger firms actually subscribe to online courses from the top MBA institutions - and tbh, that may give you 90% of what you need.
 
Soldato
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When times were tough, I funded a lads MBA via deferred salary increases/golden handcuffs. If you are a "lifer" it may be worth suggesting it in that way to your employer i.e. they foot the full bill but next years pay rise is nill, or if you quit within 2 years you pay it back in full.

Worth noting that some of the bigger firms actually subscribe to online courses from the top MBA institutions - and tbh, that may give you 90% of what you need.

Afternoon. Cheers. I think I'm going to say to them, what would it take to get you to pay for it in full? If I am a lifer (might be) then it would make complete sense for them to pay for it because it's entirely to the benefit of the company. It turns out (I didn't realise) that you can get a student loan for an MBA so if they say no, we'll fund half, I could still go ahead with it.

We don't have any subscriptions to anything like that. We're about 100 people, so no big firm. I don't want to do any online course though. I know that I need to sit and listen to someone or I won't actually do anything. Which is why I spend so much time on Overclockers...
 
Soldato
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Afternoon. Cheers. I think I'm going to say to them, what would it take to get you to pay for it in full? If I am a lifer (might be) then it would make complete sense for them to pay for it because it's entirely to the benefit of the company. It turns out (I didn't realise) that you can get a student loan for an MBA so if they say no, we'll fund half, I could still go ahead with it.
Business performance really. If we are doing well, money is plentiful and needs spending on something. I'd hold your ground on them paying for it in full but offer to take the golden handcuffs for 2 years. Then if you move on, you just ask your new employer to foot the bill.

We don't have any subscriptions to anything like that. We're about 100 people, so no big firm. I don't want to do any online course though. I know that I need to sit and listen to someone or I won't actually do anything. Which is why I spend so much time on Overclockers...

Yeah I am similar however the content was amazing - and it was video instructor led. They literally filmed the lecture that the people in the real world received. And these are lecturers that are world renowned/masters at their subject.
 
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Business performance really. If we are doing well, money is plentiful and needs spending on something. I'd hold your ground on them paying for it in full but offer to take the golden handcuffs for 2 years. Then if you move on, you just ask your new employer to foot the bill.

Yeah I am similar however the content was amazing - and it was video instructor led. They literally filmed the lecture that the people in the real world received. And these are lecturers that are world renowned/masters at their subject.

Unfortunately someone else set a president, someone who I presume is on a much better salary than me being an experienced account manager who receives commission. I just need to make my argument properly I guess. I'd be willing to sign for longer than 2 years frankly - it's £30k-£40k.

Hah fair enough. I really don't think I could do that. The course I'm looking at requires you to go somewhere occassionally, but not every week, which would probably suit me.
 
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If I were you I'd aim to get an employer to fund it (albeit not at the expense of raises), I guess if it's £30-40k then that's quite feasible (some of the top programs seem to cost more like £100k).

When times were tough, I funded a lads MBA via deferred salary increases/golden handcuffs. If you are a "lifer" it may be worth suggesting it in that way to your employer i.e. they foot the full bill but next years pay rise is nill, or if you quit within 2 years you pay it back in full.

I'd say the opposite tbh... raises carry forwards so if you're a lifer then it doesn't necessarily make sense to fund via giving up pay increases, the NPV of several years pay after say missing a raise or two could easily exceed the tuition and you'd be better off with a loan. If, however, you're going to leave after the 2 year clawback period it could well be worthwhile simply because training benefits like that are tax-free; say you lose £XX,XXX in additional comp over 2 years but net of income tax that additional comp is < £35k (or whatever the tuition costs are).

Ideally, you'd just want to negotiate for the tuition to be paid for in return for a clawback period (simply retaining a good employee for two years more can be well worth an additional £35k), training is usually a different budget and shouldn't (directly) affect pay though allocation of the training budget can be used to reward people and indeed a big expense like this could be used as an excuse for allocating a lower portion of say a bonus pool etc.. but I think that sort of thing is short-sighted as the sort of people pushing for self-improvement etc.. are generally the sort of people the company wants to retain.

We don't have any subscriptions to anything like that. We're about 100 people, so no big firm. I don't want to do any online course though. I know that I need to sit and listen to someone or I won't actually do anything. Which is why I spend so much time on Overclockers...

I was going to suggest that there are online courses that may be useful: https://quantic.edu/

That's perhaps more in line with having online some quality lectures as dlockers mentioend than say a full-fat MBA, it's an accredited degree but MBAs are typically also accredited by some international organisations and that one isn't (yet).

I wouldn't necessarily pay for something like that but if you had an employer who won't fork out 35k but maybe will fork out 10k or whatever then maybe worth a look, importantly I think they cut it down to smaller bitesize chunks so you could view mini-lectures on your phone etc. it's perhaps still suitable for someone who otherwise wouldn't cope well with online only.

MBAs generally aren't known to be particularly difficult, it seems more like you're paying to do a bit of signaling and to build a network, that quantic course could in theory simply be open to anyone with an undergrad degree (and perhaps at even lower fees) but it seems like they're deliberately restricting it to try and increase the brand value, rather than being from a prestigious business school it's simply artificially hard to get into and the cohort is disproportionately people from [well-known brand name] companies. Whether that works out or not as a useful addition to your CV/useful signal and/or useful network (since it's online) is to be seen but it's a more affordable gamble especially if a company pays!

Yeah I am similar however the content was amazing - and it was video instructor led. They literally filmed the lecture that the people in the real world received. And these are lecturers that are world renowned/masters at their subject.

I had something similar at a former employer but focused more on fiance and some soft skills stuff, while I haven't seen anything that would replace some of the detailed finance stuff (I guess even more common ACA, CFA tutorials are usually provided by private providers not universities) there are plenty of universities who have now made high-quality lectures available for free. I guess, after all, their selling point is more the credentials, small tutorials/office hours, the network and the brand name.

For example here someone has put together a free MBA including Coursera lectures from Wharton which is often ranked as the number 1 business school in the world:


If it's just the knowledge/education people are after then that's now easily available completely free of charge.
 
Soldato
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I was going to suggest that there are online courses that may be useful: https://quantic.edu/

That's perhaps more in line with having online some quality lectures as dlockers mentioend than say a full-fat MBA, it's an accredited degree but MBAs are typically also accredited by some international organisations and that one isn't (yet).

I wouldn't necessarily pay for something like that but if you had an employer who won't fork out 35k but maybe will fork out 10k or whatever then maybe worth a look, importantly I think they cut it down to smaller bitesize chunks so you could view mini-lectures on your phone etc. it's perhaps still suitable for someone who otherwise wouldn't cope well with online only.

MBAs generally aren't known to be particularly difficult, it seems more like you're paying to do a bit of signaling and to build a network, that quantic course could in theory simply be open to anyone with an undergrad degree (and perhaps at even lower fees) but it seems like they're deliberately restricting it to try and increase the brand value, rather than being from a prestigious business school it's simply artificially hard to get into and the cohort is disproportionately people from [well-known brand name] companies. Whether that works out or not as a useful addition to your CV/useful signal and/or useful network (since it's online) is to be seen but it's a more affordable gamble especially if a company pays!

Hi @dowie. Very conscious that I didn't reply to you. I thought about it every week since!

Thank you again for your suggestions. I managed to get a 20% scholarship to one of the MBAs, and my company offered to pay 50% (so I was paying 30%), but it was a huge number of days out of work. So I'm doing a less intense one beginning in September, for which I still have an opportunity to get a scholarship. I want to minimise the cost as much as possible - I'm less than 2 years away from getting rid of my existing student loan.

The reason why I've gone for an in person one is that I was never that academic. Yes, I have a degree, but I hated most of it. So the more I'm in uni, the better. For me it's honestly a knowledge thing. I'm not fussed about networking or signalling; our business is growing and I want to make sure that I'm at the forefront of the growth instead of being left behind due to my lacking commercial experience in comparison to others being brought on.
 
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Morning all,

As per the title, I'm thinking about doing an MBA. I

I was just wondering if people had any thoughts or recommendations as I'm sure there are lots of professionals on here with MBAs.

Thanks in advance

dirtychinchilla

From what you say you have a engineering degree the maths part of the MBA would be so easy that you probably not need to study. As long as you know descriptive/ inferential stats you should be good to go.

In all honesty if your employer can pay for it then only go to the top 20 MBA providers. Wharton in the US being top , LBS top in UK then judge business school.

Do not fall for the other universities in the UK that offer it. Having a top MBA from the best 20 will open so many doors.

MBAs are pretty easy from what I have seen, I don't really think they provide great knowledge transfer but having the right institutions name opens the doors.

Maybe try a postgraduate degree, like a masters. Top UK universities only do masters and they do not normally offer postgraduate certs or dips.

However, you can join top UK university and bail out after 4 modules and only pay for those modules and gain a cert, which is a sly way and one they do not tell students.

You are better offer doing a masters then MBA, than MBA and later on doing a masters.

MSc will provide easier access to a top university than a BEng.

One of my MSc I did select a management module from a list of MBA modules as my elective. I thought it was a joke of a module. We are looking at a top ranking world university.

Honesty, I think a MSc is much harder than a MBA.

Personally if I were going to do a MBA it would have to be from the top 5 or 10 otherwise I don't really see the point.
 
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I'd say the opposite tbh... raises carry forwards so if you're a lifer then it doesn't necessarily make sense to fund via giving up pay increases, the NPV of several years pay after say missing a raise or two could easily exceed the tuition and you'd be better off with a loan. If, however, you're going to leave after the 2 year clawback period it could well be worthwhile simply because training benefits like that are tax-free; say you lose £XX,XXX in additional comp over 2 years but net of income tax that additional comp is < £35k (or whatever the tuition costs are).

Ideally, you'd just want to negotiate for the tuition to be paid for in return for a clawback period
I agree, when I've sought employer funding towards training in the past I've proposed clawback rather than giving up salary, and I wasn't even a lifer. For lifers it's an even worse idea because the compounding will continually bite you every year, you don't get the chance to break out of the downward spiral of low pay like you do when you change employer. Then to add on top, in times of double-digit inflation like we have now forgoing a pay rise is much more meaningful than it was a few years ago.
 
Soldato
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From what you say you have a engineering degree the maths part of the MBA would be so easy that you probably not need to study. As long as you know descriptive/ inferential stats you should be good to go.

In all honesty if your employer can pay for it then only go to the top 20 MBA providers. Wharton in the US being top , LBS top in UK then judge business school.

Do not fall for the other universities in the UK that offer it. Having a top MBA from the best 20 will open so many doors.

MBAs are pretty easy from what I have seen, I don't really think they provide great knowledge transfer but having the right institutions name opens the doors.

Maybe try a postgraduate degree, like a masters. Top UK universities only do masters and they do not normally offer postgraduate certs or dips.

However, you can join top UK university and bail out after 4 modules and only pay for those modules and gain a cert, which is a sly way and one they do not tell students.

You are better offer doing a masters then MBA, than MBA and later on doing a masters.

MSc will provide easier access to a top university than a BEng.

One of my MSc I did select a management module from a list of MBA modules as my elective. I thought it was a joke of a module. We are looking at a top ranking world university.

Honesty, I think a MSc is much harder than a MBA.

Personally if I were going to do a MBA it would have to be from the top 5 or 10 otherwise I don't really see the point.

Thanks for your input. I've no desire to do an engineering masters. I'm not a great engineer; I'm more commercial. I'll be doing the MBA at Henley, which is top 10 according to the FT. But I believe I'll gain a load of knowledge and skills from doing it.
 
Soldato
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I agree, when I've sought employer funding towards training in the past I've proposed clawback rather than giving up salary, and I wasn't even a lifer. For lifers it's an even worse idea because the compounding will continually bite you every year, you don't get the chance to break out of the downward spiral of low pay like you do when you change employer. Then to add on top, in times of double-digit inflation like we have now forgoing a pay rise is much more meaningful than it was a few years ago.

I don't think mine will factor in, although I need to have that conversation. It's quite low cost for the company (£13.5k) over nearly three years, so it shouldn't factor in at all. I'm more annoyed by the potential student loan! I managed to get a 20% scholarship on the course I applied for, but have deferred so I'll have to re-apply for a scholarship. Fingers crossed for 50%!
 
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Thanks for your input. I've no desire to do an engineering masters. I'm not a great engineer; I'm more commercial. I'll be doing the MBA at Henley, which is top 10 according to the FT. But I believe I'll gain a load of knowledge and skills from doing it.
Good luck with your choice, personally I would have gone WBS in that price range, CASS renamed Bayes now for a bit more. Masters in some related subject before MBA is a very good way to get into the world top 10 MBA programmes and receive financial aid. Extra year but it will save you £10,000s.
 
Soldato
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Good luck with your choice, personally I would have gone WBS in that price range, CASS renamed Bayes now for a bit more. Masters in some related subject before MBA is a very good way to get into the world top 10 MBA programmes and receive financial aid. Extra year but it will save you £10,000s.

There's a big convenience factor - Henley is very easy for me to get to and stay nearby. Warwick, not so much.
 
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