Thinking of buying a business

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Old No.7 said:
Do we get someone to look at the accounts for us or can we rely on the sellers estate agents to tell us exactly what the shop is making?

You can work that out from this:

The turnover for the year ended 30 April 2005 was £216,341, net of VAT from which an excellent Gross Profit of circa 30% is achieved.

Which suggests gross profit of circa £65k. Now, this might seem good, however..

It's really just turnover minus cost of goods sold, and doesn't take into account the other operating costs of the business - for example staffing costs (there are some occasions when gross profit has taken this into account but not for this type of business), rates, bills, etc etc.

Potentially, it's not very profitable at all, especially given the low asking price for the business and the fact that local newsagents such as this are facing ever increasing competition from undercutting supermarkets.
 
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Are there any other shops around and are Tesco planning or could build a shop near it.

There is no papershops left in my village now, its just got a Spar, Co-op and a Somerfield, I miss the penny sweets. :(
 
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Newsagent = Slow Painful Death

My dad has owned a newsagent for over 20 years. For the past 10 years he has been telling me about how he is going to get out of the business and do something else. He works 14 hours a day 7 days a week. Takes christmas day off and thats it.

He has an accountant who does all the money management.

Safeway use to be literally across the street from us. They died. The newsagent lives on but I think only because its pure evil.

Oh yea and tesco is like less than a 1/4 mile down the road yet the newsagent still stands. Evil.
 

A2Z

A2Z

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i hope you're not going to actually work there yourself..how boring is that? i dont know how people can just sit in those newsagents all days, seems soooooooo boring :confused:
 
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Alasdair said:
It's in Melrose, which is hardly the hip and happening joint you would expect.

That's exactly why we're looking to buy out there. It's extremely scenic and even on the quietest days it can still be quiet busy. Take a drive down there one day and try and find a parking space, and for it being such a small community take a look at the number of coach parties that you see.


cheets64 said:
Are there any other shops around and are Tesco planning or could build a shop near it.

Not that we're aware of, although this is something that we have thought about and will be looking into that.

asim said:
Newsagent = Slow Painful Death

This particular shop has been a newsagents for just over 80 years, so if it's a slow painful death then it's certainly taking it's time ;)

A2Z said:
i hope you're not going to actually work there yourself..how boring is that?

Yup, I'll be working there :cool: This would be my business and I would only be limited by my imagination as to what I could do with it ;) My girlfriend would also like to try her hand at making her own collection of greetings cards, so this would also be an ideal platform for her to try that out :)
 
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A2Z said:
i hope you're not going to actually work there yourself..how boring is that? i dont know how people can just sit in those newsagents all days, seems soooooooo boring :confused:

thats a little bit condescending tbh
 
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[TW]Fox pretty much nailed it. Gross figures are largely meaningless, if you don't know the net figures.

Turnover just gives you the value of sales receipts. Gross profit is those receipts less the cost of sales. So, whatever you bought to resell, deduct the cost. If you sold £200,000 worth of newspapers, but you paid £130,000 for them, the gross profit would be £70,000.

But, what does it cost to run the place? Do you have to pay staff? What about rates, powerand utility bills, insurance, and so so. If you had £50,000 of such costs, that £70,000 gross is now down to £20,000 net ..... and you haven't paid any tax yet.

Tax will depend on the legal structure of the business. If it's a limited company, then you can deduct any staff salaries, including your own, from gross profit before leaving a net profit, which is then subject to Corporation tax. Post tax profit can either be reinvested, held in reserves or distributed to shareholders.

But, shareholders then pay personal tax on the dividends. And, the business has to pay employer's NI on any PAYE paid too, and of course, you have to do the book-keeping for PAYE/NI for employees, including yourself.

If, on the hand, the business is not a limited company, then it is effectively the owner "trading as". In that case, there's no PAYE, you pay self-employed NI and the income received from the business is subject to personal Income Tax, not Corporation Tax.

Which is the better legal structure is a complex issue, because there are fairly significant tax differences, and because there are VERY different implications in terms of personal liability.

Oh, and the 'analysis' in this post is VERY simplified. It is, obviously, a lot more complex than I've said. I've just painted the outlines.
 
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As someone who's been burnt in business (well, my wife anyway), and is facing selling their house to pay for it... let me giive you some advice.

Figures are important, but you need the full picture - both turn-over and costs. Preferably real ones not made up.
If all the accounts look the same (ie same pen and hand-writing) - that's dodgy, walk away... our first mistake.
Make sure you do the stock-take, don't take their word on what the stock is worth (unless it seems very cheap) or that it's even in date.
Look at the seasonal variations - there's no point making a killing at Christmas if you can't pay your debts in June!... another of our mistakes.
Keep accurate accounts - it's much easier to keep ontop of them than try to sort them out at the end of the year.

Accountants are people too... they can get it wrong or not see the obvious. Trust them, they know about money, but don't trust them blindly.

I don't know about how the adminstration works in the UK, but I've learnt the hard way how it works here. My wife certainly knows how NOT to do her taxes.

I think that "Black Books" is more accurate than people may believe!
You wouldn't believe how many times we've wanted to do what Bernad does! Or how stupid customers can be. Be prepared for it, and if I haven't put you off and you think it's good... then good luck and go for it! It really is nice to work for yourself, but it can be hard too.
 
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Now that I've had time to sleep on it I have to say that I'm not as 'blinded' as I was when we where there yesterday. Thanks to everyone who replied though as it certainly has given me more of an insight than I had before about what to do. I will certainly still have a look at this though as I do think that the business has more potential to unleash and may just benefit from some fresh faces and ideas.
The only real concern is the property above the premises. With a little bit of modernising it would be a lovely little house but it doesn't have a garden. It has patio doors which lead out onto a very very small area of 'patio' but seeing as we have 4 cats this has made us think about what would they do :(
2 of the cats would have no problem hopping over the high wall at the back and roaming about there but the other 2 are lazy podgies and couldn't jump to save their lives :p It would almost feel like they would be prisoners in their own home. :(
 
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Beansprout said:
It strikes me you're focussing more on the 'house' than the business - be careful :)

Nah, the house does play a part in the whole thing though Beansprout. We wanted to move to that part of the country first of all without even thinking about the business and it was just by chance that we found something that I could do whilst my girlfriend commuted to work each day. Having the property as well is a bonus, but if we don't think the business would work then we certainly won't be interested in the house. It's just that it would almost be like killing two birds with one stone if you know what I mean :)
 
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Old No.7 said:
It's just that it would almost be like killing two birds with one stone if you know what I mean :)
Easy if you catch them in a net first.

My parents ran a post office/newsagent/corner shop when I was a kid. They did it for 22 years after my dad left the Navy.

It's bloody hard work, with long hours but they both thoroughly enjoyed it.
 
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fatiain said:
Easy if you catch them in a net first.

My parents ran a post office/newsagent/corner shop when I was a kid. They did it for 22 years after my dad left the Navy.

It's bloody hard work, with long hours but they both thoroughly enjoyed it.

WOAH !! .. That's exactly what my Mum and Dad did :eek:

My Dad left the merchant navy and they bought the shop ... we moved in on my 4th birthday :D

They are getting sick and tired of it now but they've been doing it for nearly 23 years.

They work it all themselves apart from a few hours on the weekend - I think at the last count they put in about 60 hours a week :/

They used to only close on Christmas day but now they close on Bank Holidays

They could probably double their turnover if they put the effort in but they're both just very tired and fedup now so are kinda just doing the minimum whilst the sale goes through

Gonna be quite nice for them to go on a holiday - something they haven't done for about 10 years :(
 
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Piggymon said:
WOAH !! .. That's exactly what my Mum and Dad did :eek:

<snip>

*twiglet zone music*

My mum and dad moved into the shop 2 weeks before I was born!

When they first started it was hard and money was tight, so they moulded the business to fit them instead of letting themselves mould into the business. The bloke who ran it before used to open late 2 nights a week and all day every day (except Sundays). After about a year, and a bit of market research (and counting the cash in the till between 1730 and closing, one night they took 47p!) M&D trimmed it down from 0830-1730 every day, an hour for lunch and half day wednesday and saturday. They never opened Sundays, that was time for me and my sister.

They tried a few ideas out in the shop, some which were a roaring success, others which fell flat on their arse. I'm proud of what they did in the shop and I have some cracking memories of living there. I was the self appointed marketing manager, I used to knock up leaflets and flyers on my old Commodore 64 :D.

The people who took over the business tried too hard, late night opening, back to the open all hours and opening sundays. They lasted 18 months compared to the 22 years my folks did.
 
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My Mum and Dad used to open from 6am until 10pm in the week :eek:

They had staff to help then though but they decided to cut back and just do it all themselves

Now they open from 7.30 - 6pm Mon - Fri and 8 - 12 on a Saturday & Sunday .. They sell too many Sunday papers to close

It's going to be very very odd going to see them and them having a normal house - Also Desmo will be upset because he won't be able to help himself to the penny sweets :p
 
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Whilst doing the books it would be worthwhile to make sure that all Taxes(Corporation VAT Etc) are paid upto date as well. If you purchase the business as an ongoing concern yhou would be liable for debts like these if they have been unpaid.

I'd also get a picture of what trade suppliers she uses and what terms they offer (Payment with invoice, 30 day credit account). Make sure they are upto date and more importantly can you get a better deal from an alternate supplier. If she has owned it for some time she maybe of the mind set that she stays with one supplier because they offer a more personal service for her. This may not be as relevant for you and you maybe able to get a better deal from someone else. All helping with cash flow and profitability
 
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I forgot - It's an incredable comitment of your time too.
Say good-bye to weekends and holidays (unless you're planning on staffing it).
- You need a huge cash comitment to get the ball rolling... paying suppliers covering any accounts you allready have... just to keep things together until the cash comes back in.

When you buy, ensure that outstanding accounts, and all employee entitlements have been settled. You don't want to have to pay for the part-time girl's holiday when she's not your employee!

We'd never own a retail business again, but that doesn't mean it was all bad.
I'm not trying to put you off it, just to open your eyes to the problems you may face.
 
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