Thinking of doing an MCSE course – information needed.

m4cc45 said:
Completley disagree with this and anyone who says there are too many MCSA/MCSE's doesn't really know the true statistics.

http://mcpmag.com/certbasics/

Basically, at the moment, there are around 20,000 people WORLDWIDE with the MCSA/MCSE qualification. At the moment the only MCSE qualification that is valid is the 2003 one as they have pulled the MCSE 2000 in most countries (you can still get it in Australia if I recall correctly).

Experience and an MCSE will get you further than just experience. An MCSE without experience though will probably get you a lower job until you can prove what you are capable off.

I've done MCDST, MCSA and then MCSE. I'm looking to do the +S and then +M later this year (I've just gone through 4 exams in 4 months so I needed a break).

For training I'd highly recommend one in Cardiff which I appreciate may be too far. I can't remember the name but it was really good. It's past the magic roundabout opposite a travel inn then up the industrial road. Sure someone passing will remind me of there name.



M.
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I think you're taking me the wrong way.

I'm not saying there are too many MCSE/MCSA accredited people around - there aren't. What I'm saying is that too many of them have passed through paper-study only, no experience. Sit them in front of a short exam for a job and you can easily tell the ones who have actual experience managing a network, and those who gained their title through nothing but memorising paper.

"Brain Dumps" are also becoming more widespread, especially in the Far East. We had a Chinese MCSA join our helpdesk a few years ago, and the guy could barely troubleshoot a faulty CD drive, let alone manage Active Directory.

I like to think of it as the same differentiation between someone who is "smart" and someone who is "intelligent".
 
To be honest I think when interviewing somebody there should be a short technical test. I'd then use some software to record what the user does and then go through it afterwards. This is the only way you can really gauge how good a candidate is. I've been interviewed and given questions like what are the five FSMO roles and answered them fine. However this doesn't prove I know anything about IT.

Since MCSE 2000 has gone it has made the MCSE 2003 much rarer. I know people who've done an MCSE 2000 and can't get there 2003. I did pass mine by a lot of study and experience. I work with the technology all the time. Unfortunately I am very wary of people who have qualifications from places like China, Pakistan, etc. mainly because the control they have in the test centres is none existant - it's also very easy to pay to pass there as well.



M.
 
i passed mine back in february and tbh its not too hard to pass if you put in the study time and add it to previous knowledge. the down side to having an MSCE is employers expect you to have more expereince on top of the MCSE. you'll have no probs gettting an interview but you'll need to back it up.

there are 4 main ways of doing the course

1. home taught - buy the books your self and book your own exams
2. distance learning where you pay a company to send you all the info and book exams etc
3. college part time
4. full time course.

to which you do depends on how much money you have to spend, how much free time you have and how much self motivation you have.

the exam cost varies, the cheapest i paid was £40 and the most expensive was £100 and if you fail you'll have to pay again.

MW
 
As already said, dont do one now as they are about to change the certification this summer. Should make it much better if we're to believe the hype - current MCSA/MCSE's mean little imo.
 
Pestilence said:
I think you're taking me the wrong way.

I'm not saying there are too many MCSE/MCSA accredited people around - there aren't. What I'm saying is that too many of them have passed through paper-study only, no experience. Sit them in front of a short exam for a job and you can easily tell the ones who have actual experience managing a network, and those who gained their title through nothing but memorising paper.

"Brain Dumps" are also becoming more widespread, especially in the Far East. We had a Chinese MCSA join our helpdesk a few years ago, and the guy could barely troubleshoot a faulty CD drive, let alone manage Active Directory.

I like to think of it as the same differentiation between someone who is "smart" and someone who is "intelligent".
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I don't think some of the training companies do MCSE (etc) any favours. I know of people who have seen the adverts and been sucked in. The training company reckons they can pass MCSE for £xxxx and then they'll have a job paying £25k+ once finished. Hmmmm!
 
Been reading up on this and although an MCSA and MCSE looks interesting Im more interested in the MCTS but tbh the Microsoft description is very vague on how it actually differs from an MCSE or MCSA. Could some one please clarify this? Sorry for hijacking post.
 
the MCSE will be changing to the MCTS, i did the upgrade exam a few months back. although this exam is also expiring this month i think and will be replaced by 2 exams. these upgrade server 2003 to 2008 and xp to vista.

a MCSE will only help if you have experience you cant purely rely on it to get a job, you'll be better to stick to a few MCPs closer to your knowledge level.

from what ive heard microsoft are moving away from the multiple choice questions to more simulated to try and stop people from test kinging the exams

MW
 
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there are way too many "paper" MCSEs around imo. we've had a couple come through the IT dept i work in recently. claim to be MCSE but haven't got a clue when it comes to actually doing the work. whether they brain dumped or just have no experience i don't know, but people like that make the certs worth nothing.

your experience and certs should roughly match each other. theres no point having an MCSE if your working on a help desk. but if your level of responsibility is higher, you should get the certs to validate your knowledge of how to do the job. i guess thats whats its about really - certs should validate what you can do, not what you've read about once.

i've just passed my MCSA last week after steadily taking the exams over the past 10 months. each exam has taught me new stuff, but not radically so. what i'm doing everyday is matching what i've learnt. personally, i'm not carrying on to MCSE atm as i don't feel i have enough experience (18 months in IT) to validate the cert. + with the MCTS/MCITP exams for 2008 around, it makes me hesitant to throw myself into 2003 for another 3 or 4 exams.

hopefully i'm moving over to more specific area (storage networks) now that i have the foundations covered.
 
If you have a cert that has expired and you haven't bothered to renew it, Is it still worth putting on your CV alongside the year you did it? eg If the company wanted to verify it would there still be a record?
 
Mr-White said:
the MCSE will be changing to the MCTS, i did the upgrade exam a few months back. although this exam is also expiring this month i think and will be replaced by 2 exams. these upgrade server 2003 to 2008 and xp to vista.
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MCTS is what you get after taking an individual exam, MCITP is the MCSE replacement I thought? And then you have the MCITP Server Admin (3 exams) or the MCITP Enterprise Admin (5 exams) for server 2008?

There's other MCITP certs too, like the Exchange 2007 one. Using Exchange as an example, you do the first exam and you are MCTS in Configuring exchange. But do the 2 Pro exams and you get the MCITP.

lumpeh said:
We've had them accessing Exchange via OWA for years at work, then of recent times we've gotten them over to proper Outlook so they can read email offline & eventually access it 24x7 via RPC over HTTPS n such.
'Why would we want to use this? whats the difference? do i need a different password?!'
plus lots of other Q's
'erm...its just a more cushy version of what you've been used to'
'ooo ok then!'
*end of conversation*
:)
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Playing Devil's Advocate here, but if they don't see a benefit from it is it worth doing? Offline and 24/7 access is obviously good, but if they've been using OWA for years do they need it, worth the hassle to change? :)
 
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