Thinking of getting an EV

[dlockers]

How much is a similar age I pace with comparable mileage? Presume they've been around longer than the etron.

But people were telling me it's dead money and I should buy used instead....

The mg5 is still a relatively small car. The seats don't go anywhere near flat. And it looks like it's on stilts. Why shouldn't I want something better?

I go look at used cars and come across Audi etron. Great size and space, premium finish and looks. A £70k car now down to £20k at 3 years old! I get criticised for considering it.

You said you didn't want to budget for a 20k loan so it only left cheap EVs. If you can get 20k, get a polestar or something, not a gaudy etron that is bad as an EV. That's even ipace money.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

You’d be mental to buy an Etron 50 based on what you said your requirements are.

Get an Enyak and be done with it.

 

[danlightbulb]

How much is a similar age I pace with comparable mileage? Presume they've been around longer than the etron.


You said you didn't want to budget for a 20k loan so it only left cheap EVs. If you can get 20k, get a polestar or something, not a gaudy etron that is bad as an EV. That's even ipace money.

I could get a loan but that it would be more money than what it currently costs me for the old car or for the cheapest EV on lease (mg5). But I would own the car at the end.

The polestar 2 doesn't look to have a big boot neither does the i-pace. I havent seen either in the flesh though.

 

[danlightbulb]

You’d be mental to buy an Etron 50 based on what you said your requirements are.

Get an Enyak and be done with it.

I wouldn't buy the 50 no, I could look at the 55? If it's a bargain in terms of the amount it's dropped from a new price of 70-80k, and for what you get for the money?

 

[tom_e]

What happens to value when EVs battery warranty runs out?

The guy at the dealership said that he thinks the price will plummet once the cars reaches at 8 year/100000 mile level, and that's why I should PCP it rather than buy with a personal loan.

Obviously he wants to sell finance of course, but what do you think?

Take the Audi etron as it's a good example here. It was a £70-80k car new and is now say £20-25k at 3 years old/30k miles. That is huge depreciation. If bought over 5 years with a loan, that means the car will be 8 years old and around the 100,000 mile mark - battery warranty expired. Would you expect to be able to sell the car and what for?

Also what kind of repair risk would you be carrying at that point? Electric motors X2 in that car, all the suspension tech, all the HVAC parts, the screens... How risky would all this be compared to an 8 year old ICE?

It's exactly the same as picking up a bargain basement ICE Car that had an RRP of nearly 100k daft unless you've got the money behind you to pay for it to be fixed or can operate some spanners well (although even this won't be particularly possible with EV and all the tech in cars these days).

 

[danlightbulb]

It's exactly the same as picking up a bargain basement ICE Car that had an RRP of nearly 100k daft unless you've got the money behind you to pay for it to be fixed or can operate some spanners well (although even this won't be particularly possible with EV and all the tech in cars these days).

That's going to be the same on all EVs though isn't it? How much is an electric motor on an Enyac or Ioniq 5 after 8 years? Or a battery replacement? It's probably scrappage level money on any car?

 

[danlightbulb]

Can I start again from the beginning please. Things are getting out of control, here and in my head.

My current car is a 19 year old BMW 3 series touring, petrol, on 120,000 miles. It costs me:

I consider that the risk of owning this car is too high. I worry every day if its going to fail on me and when it does it could be a car lifespan ending failure and its then worth nothing but scrap value. Ive already done some engine repairs, its still using oil, its starting to consume coolant, it idles rough on start up, and if its cold the exhaust spits out a lot of vapour. I could be only a short time away from some kind of engine failure. The rear wiper is siezed, the passenger door lock doesn't work, the radio display doesn't work. And I pay £400 a month to run this car, half of which is petrol.

I need a decent size boot and the option to put seats down for more space. I carry camping gear, a mountain bike, scuba gear, diy stuff. Not all the time of course, 99% of my miles are going to work and back up the M6, but I need to carry those things several times a year and when I do I need the space. I also need a car that is comfortable on the motorway, nice to drive, not cramped. In an ICE car this has to mean automatic, and it would be good to have things like adaptive cruise.

I'd like a car that isn't too bland and dull. I'd like nice alloys, a sporty look, a nice interior, some modern technology.



1. Is it possible to replace this car and keep my monthly costs to no more than £400 a month in total, including the cost of the car itself? This is why I was looking at EVs, because its the only option where I can cut out the petrol cost from the budget.

2. Am I being too stingy? Perhaps £400 a month to run even an old car like mine is actually quite cheap and I need to consider spending more. How much are your car running costs?


It is so easy to get up-specced. The Audi Etron was a really nice car to sit in, it felt absolutely lovely inside, and looks great (I think) from the outside. Its also got a great size boot and really spacious when the seats go down. Its also got good performance. Its £25k though (down from £70-80k new, so appears a bargain on that basis), and higher on insurance and carries the repair cost risk of a luxury car (but is also a lot newer than what I currently have).

I just put this here for comparison, Im not considering it any more, as its too expensive and still carries with it a level of risk Im not happy with.



One thing I would like to do is not carry any big risk for repairs. ANY car I buy myself would carry that sort of risk and the only option to remove it completely is to lease.


Here is the MG5 option on lease:

In almost every respect its a good option. I get a brand new car, carry no risk whatsoever. But despite the fuel saving AND the salary sacrifice, its still costing me more than £400 a month. That is crazy. Its a nice car, but not a great car. Its still not that big inside, the load space is not great either, and it doesn't look very sporty.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

How much is a Tesla Model Y on lease/SS? Tesla themselves are doing 0% APR right now.

 

[danlightbulb]

How much is a Tesla Model Y on lease/SS? Tesla themselves are doing 0% APR right now.

On my salary sacrifice scheme the budget would be as follows:

This is over £300 a month more than my current outlay and is really more than I wanted to spend. I also don't think the model Y has a particularly practical boot. Surely I can do better than a Tesla, I don't really even like the look of them.


On a private lease looking at the Tesla website, 2 year term is the only option, and either 10k or 15k miles a year so I need to choose 15k. With no deposit down it is £583 a month. I would then need to insure it etc. Insurance quote is more than the Audi Etron- £1250 a year or over £100 a month.

So total cost lease + insurance + £20 charging + £10 breakdown cover + £20 home charger installation would be £733 a month (same as the salary sac scheme) and Im not sure what my servicing obligations or tyre requirements are in that either.

 

[dlockers]

Do you have a salary sacrifice portal you can play with? What miles do you do per year?

 

[danlightbulb]

Do you have a salary sacrifice portal you can play with? What miles do you do per year?

I have a website I can go on and pick different cars etc. I have to then take that gross figure and put it into my own tax calculator spreadsheet to work out the net cost to me, because I also have a salary sacrifice pension and the website isn't clever enough to work that out.

I need 12k miles per year.

 

[dlockers]

I have a website I can go on and pick different cars etc. I have to then take that gross figure and put it into my own tax calculator spreadsheet to work out the net cost to me, because I also have a salary sacrifice pension and the website isn't clever enough to work that out.

I need 12k miles per year.

12k is probably into the expensive lease category tbf. You're covering the bulk of depreciation with your monthlies.

I'd go something like this on a loan:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

 

[Kenai]

The only way I think you can make this stack up with a target expenditure of £400 all in is via the salary sacrifice, because that £400 figure hampers your ability to go second hand and attain much value, particularly so when your risk aversion has you turning your nose up at a £14,000 Kona because it's 3.5 years old before you'd even got onto considering the suitability of it.

So with that in mind, unless your appetite for risk with a second hand car changes, your options are actually extremely simple - find whichever cars are available on your salary sacrifice for the appropriate gross amount and see if any of them tick enough boxes.

If you need an estate, I don't think you currently get much choice outside of the MG5, 308SW and Astra Sports Tourer (the last two being effectively the same car).

 

[danlightbulb]

12k is probably into the expensive lease category tbf. You're covering the bulk of depreciation with your monthlies.

I'd go something like this on a loan:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Here is the monthly budget on this:

Still talking nearly £300 more monthly cost than what I currently have. Don't you think this is a bit crazy, that I am saving so much on fuel and not allowing anything for repairs, yet still coming in nearly £300 a month more than current? It feels like Im missing something.

And at the end of my personal loan period that car will be out of battery warranty. I have no idea what that means in terms of risk, or loss of capital value of the car.

The only way I think you can make this stack up with a target expenditure of £400 all in is via the salary sacrifice, because that £400 figure hampers your ability to go second hand and attain much value, particularly so when your risk aversion has you turning your nose up at a £14,000 Kona because it's 3.5 years old before you'd even got onto considering the suitability of it.

So with that in mind, unless your appetite for risk with a second hand car changes, your options are actually extremely simple - find whichever cars are available on your salary sacrifice for the appropriate gross amount and see if any of them tick enough boxes.

If you need an estate, I don't think you currently get much choice outside of the MG5, 308SW and Astra Sports Tourer (the last two being effectively the same car).

Do you think £400 is unrealistic then, completely? I mean, it certainly looks that way, is everyone else here spending way more than £400 a month for their motoring? It is a lot of money and Im not even running a modern car.

I am skewed by what happened to my previous car (engine failure on 115k miles) and the fact that this one is also showing signs of trouble. I am also interested in EV from the point of view of not paying any fuel costs! But, I still need a decent size car there is no getting away from that. I haven't seen anything suggested that is keeping the cost reasonable whilst meeting the criteria.

I don't necessarily need an estate, the Audi Etron I saw today is an SUV and was enough load space for me in both volume and floor area. But whether estate or SUV, I need a decent load space.

 

[Tr1p]

I was in this situation earlier this year, I ran a 17 year old Saab. Overall this was costing me around £400 a month all in, however I replaced it with a I-Pace.

Granted I got a really good deal on my I-Pace, the costs for a 70 plate I-Pace S with 40K miles,

Car - £276.50 a month (£1500 deposit so £62.50 over the 24 month term built in)
Warranty - £65 a month
Insurance - £60 a month
Charger - £41 a month over the 24 months however this has paid for itself already realistically in fuel savings
Electric - £15 a month

Total - £456 a month

I understand that consumables and MOT aren’t built into this, so round it up to £500 a month, for me the extra £100 a month was worth it to drive around in a car 14 years younger with 100K less miles. Surely you just have to balance what the cost is vs the potential headache you could have is…..

 

[danlightbulb]

I was in this situation earlier this year, I ran a 17 year old Saab. Overall this was costing me around £400 a month all in, however I replaced it with a I-Pace.

Granted I got a really good deal on my I-Pace, the costs for a 70 plate I-Pace S with 40K miles,

Car - £276.50 a month (£1500 deposit so £62.50 over the 24 month term built in)
Warranty - £65 a month
Insurance - £60 a month
Charger - £41 a month over the 24 months however this has paid for itself already realistically in fuel savings
Electric - £15 a month

Total - £456 a month

I understand that consumables and MOT aren’t built into this, so round it up to £500 a month, for me the extra £100 a month was worth it to drive around in a car 14 years younger with 100K less miles. Surely you just have to balance what the cost is vs the potential headache you could have is…..

Can you expand on the car cost itself please. Was this a loan for the full amount, or some kind of PCP/lease arrangement on the used car? £276 per month is only about a £14k loan over 5 years, you can't get an i-pace for that. You must be looking at a balloon payment at the end?

I would be quite happy paying an extra £100 on top of what I currently pay to get a much newer nicer car, thats about the amount that I think is reasonable. Any more than that starts to become expensive.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

I also don't think the model Y has a particularly practical boot. Surely I can do better than a Tesla, I don't really even like the look of them.

As someone who owns one, I can tell you that the boot is massive. Hatchback opening, huge under-boot storage, usable frunk, seats fold completely flat and are electrically dropped. I find it more practical than the A6 Avant we used to have and on-par, if not better, than the LR Discovery 5 that we also have. Edit: Pretty sure it’s also bigger than the E-Tron’s boot.

In terms of doing better than a Tesla, quite honestly if you’re looking at EV and intend on doing decent miles away from home, it doesn’t get any better as far as charging is concerned.

In terms of looks, that’s subjective obviously, but you’ve been considering the MG so assumed you didn’t care about how it looked.

 

[danlightbulb]

In terms of looks, that’s subjective obviously, but you’ve been considering the MG so assumed you didn’t care about how it looked.

The reason I haven't pushed the button on the MG is because of how it looks.

The Tesla styling isn't really my bag. I prefer the chunky overtly sporty styling of the German brands, rather than the 'Porsche' like curvy styling on the Model Y. Anyway, I cant afford the Model Y.

 

[Tr1p]

Can you expand on the car cost itself please. Was this a loan for the full amount, or some kind of PCP/lease arrangement on the used car? £276 per month is only about a £14k loan over 5 years, you can't get an i-pace for that. You must be looking at a balloon payment at the end?

I would be quite happy paying an extra £100 on top of what I currently pay to get a much newer nicer car, thats about the amount that I think is reasonable. Any more than that starts to become expensive.

Absolutely,

It is a PCP over 24 months. I did look at a personal loan to purchase the car however I didn’t want the risk of battery failure if I kept it past 8 years and no warranty coverage. As you described earlier.

I think off the top of my head the car was around £20K. I accepted that my old car was costing me £400 a month in lost money, I saw nothing for it therefore another £100 a month for a newer car which isn’t comparable at all because to drive it’s leagues ahead was worth it.

 

[danlightbulb]

Absolutely,

It is a PCP over 24 months. I did look at a personal loan to purchase the car however I didn’t want the risk of battery failure if I kept it past 8 years and no warranty coverage. As you described earlier.

I think off the top of my head the car was around £20K. I accepted that my old car was costing me £400 a month in lost money, I saw nothing for it therefore another £100 a month for a newer car which isn’t comparable at all because to drive it’s leagues ahead was worth it.

Yes that sounds like the same situation as me. Would you mind sharing the PCP APR rate, and the balloon payment at the end? If not, no worries.

The PCP quotes I have done had me paying as much for the car as taking a loan out and buying it myself. The rate they quoted me today was nearly 12%, when a personal loan is more like 6.2%.