I dont know how they measure it but there is no way its bigger. The Ionic 5 is a hatchback of similar style boot to a Focus or Astra. Perhaps it is a very deep boot (vertically) but with no front to back distance.
Thinking of getting an EV
- Thread starter danlightbulb
- Start date
Is ID3 on the menu - with the back seat down I think you can get bikes in, and, it is saloon size with some of dynamics of 325 (or my 3 estate).
You won't change your driving habits with the reduced electricity costs - so is 12K a year lease sufficient ?
I can do 12K on a commute but the prospect of more weekend day trips because it is cheaper would be an attraction, but might need a recharge..
You won't change your driving habits with the reduced electricity costs - so is 12K a year lease sufficient ?
I can do 12K on a commute but the prospect of more weekend day trips because it is cheaper would be an attraction, but might need a recharge..
I dont think the bike is the big problem any more. I do less biking now than I used to. I can take the wheels off and put the seats flat for that.
Its more about taking camping gear and suitcases (the dog goes in the back seats not in the boot). And picking up 3m 2x4's and bags of cement, sand, etc from the DIY store.
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EV6 is leagues apart compared to the rest on the list isn't it?
I have an e3008 and other than the garbage steering wheel, it is perfectly adequate. I went for a Kona but they had much longer delivery lead times. It is showing up as the cheapest by a mile on my Arval portal atm.
I asked chatGPT to put a list of together of the specs for the cars im interested in. Here's what I got to after a few iterations.
There aren't as many rear wheel drive ones as I'd hoped. Id prefer that but I guess its not essential.
I initially really liked the Peugeot e-308 SW, but its a bit slow compared to the others. ChatGPT has it at 8.5 seconds to 60 but online it says 9.6s.
There aren't as many rear wheel drive ones as I'd hoped. Id prefer that but I guess its not essential.
I initially really liked the Peugeot e-308 SW, but its a bit slow compared to the others. ChatGPT has it at 8.5 seconds to 60 but online it says 9.6s.
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Soldato
I'm sure you already know this but take manufacturers mileage claims with a pinch of salt.
ev-database.org
EV Database
Range of electric vehicles cheatsheet. Quick reference for all plug-in hybrid en full electric cars.
ev-database.org
So taking one example (because its a lot of work to work this out for every model).
I would need a £20k loan to get an Ioniq 5 that is 3 ish years old. That is £387 per month for 5 years.
I would save c. £200 monthly in fuel costs.
But I would still incur the insurance, servicing/MOT, breakdown cover, tyres. A quick insurance quote is coming in at £80 a month (nearly double my current car).
So yeah, if I take account of the c.£100 repair budget for the current car, it would cost me £100 a month more than current to buy the car direct. Which is about the same as it is going to cost to get the new car on lease.
I am then left with an 8 year old EV at the end of the five years, maybe worth around £10k? So yeah if you take that into account its probably the cheaper option.
I don't know, this is tough choices and a lot of money either way.
If I take the lease I have completely hassle free motoring.
If I buy the car direct I have to get a £20k loan, which is a lot (I might not get approved) and I would have liability for the car in terms of repairs (if not covered by warranty) and insurance etc.
Soldato
Yeah, it's very much a gamble in terms of depreciation
When I got my Zoe in 2019, people were predicting it would be worth ~£12k at the end of the 5 years. Looking on AT, it's more like half that! Luckily I got rid of it when covid hit and it was clear I wasn't going back into the office, and it was still worth more than the outstanding finance.
Pretty sure you'd be liable for any out of warranty repairs for the salary sacrifice scheme also.
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Here's some used prices on the MG5:
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2023, 1k miles - £22k
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2023, 9k miles - £19k
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2022, 17k miles - £18k
IF I could get £3k for my current car that would mean I could get a 2022 model for £15k (£290 a month over 5 years).
That is about the break even point in terms of affordability now.
Would you have any concerns owning an EV that is already 3 years old, over another 5 years timeframe?
I think, the MG has a 7 year warranty, battery 10?
Do you think this is a better option than leasing the same car? Its about the same net cost to me, but I'd get a brand new car instead of a 2/3 year old one, but I'd not own it after 4 year lease is up.
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2023, 1k miles - £22k
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2023, 9k miles - £19k
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2022, 17k miles - £18k
IF I could get £3k for my current car that would mean I could get a 2022 model for £15k (£290 a month over 5 years).
That is about the break even point in terms of affordability now.
Would you have any concerns owning an EV that is already 3 years old, over another 5 years timeframe?
I think, the MG has a 7 year warranty, battery 10?
Do you think this is a better option than leasing the same car? Its about the same net cost to me, but I'd get a brand new car instead of a 2/3 year old one, but I'd not own it after 4 year lease is up.
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Soldato
Here's some used prices on the MG5:
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2023, 1k miles - £22k
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2023, 9k miles - £19k
MG5 Trophy 61 kWh, 2022, 17k miles - £18k
IF I could get £3k for my current car that would mean I could get a 2022 model for £15k (£290 a month over 5 years).
That is about the break even point in terms of affordability now.
Would you have any concerns owning an EV that is already 3 years old, over another 5 years timeframe?
I think, the MG has a 7 year warranty, battery 10?
I'd want the EV specific parts; battery, drivetrain, etc. to be under warranty, unless the car was cheaper to reflect the potential risk of a big bill.
For the rest of the car, it wouldn't be any different to an ICE.
My Niro was 2.5 year old when I got it, and the lease is for 4 years, so it will be coming up to the end if the Kia warranty when I give it back. With the age and mileage, I wouldn't really want to pay more than say £10k for it at that point.
If those were the options, personally I'd go for the loan and take the 2-3 year old one.
a) It's your car, and with a loan it gives you more flexibility; if your circumstances change, you could sell it, and pay off the finance, trade it in for something different etc.
b) If you want to keep it after the lease is up, then that's an option, and you get very low cost motoring after 4 years
c) You don't have to worry about sticking to the lease conditions, e.g. travel abroad, modifications, mileage limits, etc.
d) It's cheaper
e) Minor one, and might never apply, but if you get any parking tickets, speeding fines, etc. you can deal with them directly instead of playing Chinese whispers with the leasing company (and paying their admin fee for the pleasure)
Edit: f) You might be able to get a free charger thrown in with the car
The downsides being:
a) It's not "new and shiny" (although that feeling will be gone within 3 months anyway
)b) You don't know how it's been treated (no different to an ICE car really)
c) Things will go out of warranty sooner
d) Might not be able to get the exact car you want (although with the MG5 that's not really an issue, since IIRC there are basically 2 options; trim level and colour)
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This is true, unless it ends up needing costly repairs. Then Im in the same situation as with my current car. The continual lease removes that risk completely, of course Im paying for that continuously too.
The residual value after 5 more years would also be unknown. Doesn't matter if Im keeping the car, but does if I sell it on.
I think the key here though, which is amazing with the EV, is that whichever option I choose, Im not paying any more than I am with holding on to my current 19 year old BMW. So I can't really lose? I may not win, but I can't lose, can I?
Kia and Hyundai warranties are also 7 years - are they better? The used cars from those two are more expensive though.
Soldato
Lease cost is £377 for the MG5?
Take off £105 for insurance, maintenance, tyres & breakdown (65 + 13 + 17 + 10)
Ignoring repairs, your ongoing lease cost would be £272/month more than running the car after the loan is paid off. That's a lot of repairs! (Or a decent deposit towards the next car if you don't dip into it)
A very quick google suggests replacing the battery would be in the region of £6-7k (there's one on ebay for £3.5k atm), so 2 years of those savings would cover the cost of (probably) the most expensive part of the car if it was to completely die out of warranty (which seems pretty unlikely).
I guess the risk is that the govt. find some way to tax per mile, or otherwise increase the cost of running the car, and you end up paying the same £200/month in "fuel", but otherwise it does seem that it will be a very low cost way of getting into a much newer car.
Not really - the "7 year warranty" only really covers the guts of the car - e.g. the drivetrain etc.
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Here's all my options on the MG5.
Its a bit messy working out the lease cost, because I also salary sacrifice my pension. If I say that the car gets the 40% tax break rather than the pension, that obviously makes the lease look cheaper. So the cost shown here is for 3 different pension options, 15% (current), 13% and 12% and is the net cost to me (change in salary) after all those deductions.
So the current car costs me £19k over 4 years (assuming £100 per month allowance for repairs, could be more, could be less in reality).
Depending on my choice of pension contribution, the lease will then cost me anywhere from £345 to £451 per month and includes all the fixed running costs, this would be over 4 years.
If i buy the car I can get pre-approved for a £15k loan over 5 years at 6.2% APR. I then have to meet all the fixed costs myself but I own the car and after 5 years it might still be worth £8-10k. If I was to sell the car at that point, obviously that option becomes way cheaper but in reality I cant do that as I will still need a car and again own one that's getting older.
Soldato
Here's all my options on the MG5.
Its a bit messy working out the lease cost, because I also salary sacrifice my pension. If I say that the car gets the 40% tax break rather than the pension, that obviously makes the lease look cheaper. So the cost shown here is for 3 different pension options, 15% (current), 13% and 12% and is the net cost to me (change in salary) after all those deductions.
So the current car costs me £19k over 4 years (assuming £100 per month allowance for repairs, could be more, could be less in reality).
Depending on my choice of pension contribution, the lease will then cost me anywhere from £345 to £451 per month and includes all the fixed running costs, this would be over 4 years.
If i buy the car I can get pre-approved for a £15k loan over 5 years at 6.2% APR. I then have to meet all the fixed costs myself but I own the car and after 5 years it might still be worth £8-10k. If I was to sell the car at that point, obviously that option becomes way cheaper but in reality I cant do that as I will still need a car and again own one that's getting older.
Add some repair buffer costs to the purchase option, and extend your "cost over x years" further, say 12 years (e.g. 3 lease periods), because just doing it over the term of the lease doesn't take into account the existence of a car (or its value) at the end of it.
You might not be able to get rid of the car completely after the 4 years, but you could trade it in, and next time only need a £5-7k loan to cover the £15k replacement, or just use the £200 not being spent on fuel every month to put aside for repairs.
Just to note, as you've put it as £0 - VED will be applicable to EVs at the standard rate from next April, so ~£16/month
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Does this work? In 5 years time cars will be even more expensive so the fact I have a car worth £8k, likely still means I need another fresh £15k loan to then get an equivalent 3 year old car at that point.
Your analysis implies I could continually get a £7k loan every five years and continually buy a 3 year old car, trading in my 8 year old car. Does this work?
Soldato
That question is getting into crystal ball territory
But yes, unfortunately inflation happens, so that £7k loan could be a £10k loan in absolute terms, but similarly, if you get cost of living pay increases then the relative cost to you remains the same.
It's obviously not going to be that simple, and will depend on the market at the time, but trading in a 7-8 year old car is always going to be worth /more/ than trading in the non-existent car at the end of the lease. There's always going to be a hit from depreciation; the original buyer of the 2-3 year old car will have already taken the brunt of that, whereas with the lease, you're paying for that depreciation (plus profit for the lease co).
Yeah I see that for sure. I know paying a lease is more expensive, and locks me in continually to that cost as well.
But its hard to get the up front cash to spend £15-20k (or more) on a car as well. That's why Im currently driving a 19 year old car.
If the bottom end of the market wasn't so bad I'd probably have a 6-9 year old car right now.
This new venture is only viable because of the fuel saving is offsetting a good chunk of the lease/loan cost.
But its hard to get the up front cash to spend £15-20k (or more) on a car as well. That's why Im currently driving a 19 year old car.
If the bottom end of the market wasn't so bad I'd probably have a 6-9 year old car right now.
This new venture is only viable because of the fuel saving is offsetting a good chunk of the lease/loan cost.
Soldato
Yeah, absolutely - I was in exactly the same position a few years ago, there are benefits to both options - the lease is almost certainly going to be more expensive, and you'll be "trapped" in the same position in 4/5 years when it runs out, but obviously it does come with the benefit of a single fixed cost with nothing (barring the unlikely event of an expensive out of warranty repair) to worry about.