This Business and Moment...

[shifty_uk]

Reading these posts remind me why I’ve never joined the big corporate world, I feel everyones pain.

Having built systems as a third party that had to use existing code bases/repos(not well maintained), then go through IT help desks, then challenge why things have been poorly implemented, only to be told to shut up(nicely) and stay in your lane… Theres just no changing cultures in some places.

 

[LuckyBenski]

So I've been helping another team's manager out and interviewing for an IT service analyst role for him. Basically we shortlisted from ~50 CVs, took 9 people forward for interviews. 2 showed up, one was "ill", the rest ghosted or didn't show up after accepting the interview.

The 2 who showed up were good candidates and we passed them forward for a second interview directly with the hiring manager - one has declined.

A) WTF is wrong with people these days they can't pick up the phone and say they're not coming to an interview? Rude and it makes a terrible impression.

B) WTF is my company doing to put so many candidates off? They must be paying absolute **** to be honest. Along with me hiring 2 people last October and one simply delaying and then not showing up for the job, I'm starting to think it's all the leadership/HR's fault we can't get any ****ing staff.

 

[HangTime]

Probably not your problem to solve, but B) definitely warrants looking at.

They way I see it, which I've discussed with Rroff in the past on similar lines, if you have maybe <25% of people dropping out, that's a them problem (as per point A). If you have >50% of people dropping out, it's probably an us problem, either directly or indirectly. Although with very junior roles there's always a chance that people are just applying for the sake of it, or scatter-gunning dozens of entry level positions, so the funnel conversion rate overall is low.

 

[rypt]

I'm currently lining up for the perfect way to give my notice....

I have a multi-week business trip to the US planned, and if things line up I'll give my notice on the day that I come back

Which would put my last day exactly on the day that testing starts for the big initiative that I'm currently running.

I guess it's too bad that I'm potentially being offered 50% more to work elsewhere...

Interesting update... a potential internal opportunity opened up in the US, as their team manager is leaving to another business area.

So now I need to have a serious think if I want to go for that role and emigrate to US ..

 

[LuckyBenski]

Probably not your problem to solve, but B) definitely warrants looking at.

They way I see it, which I've discussed with Rroff in the past on similar lines, if you have maybe <25% of people dropping out, that's a them problem (as per point A). If you have >50% of people dropping out, it's probably an us problem, either directly or indirectly. Although with very junior roles there's always a chance that people are just applying for the sake of it, or scatter-gunning dozens of entry level positions, so the funnel conversion rate overall is low.

I think that's definitely a factor - during some earlier hiring last year, some candidates were definitely not invested in the role. Seemed like recruiters had been booking interviews and then the candidates were withdrawing when they looked closely at the job spec (on-prem, Bedford based, entry level).

 

[OspreyO]

Reading these posts remind me why I’ve never joined the big corporate world, I feel everyones pain.

Having built systems as a third party that had to use existing code bases/repos(not well maintained), then go through IT help desks, then challenge why things have been poorly implemented, only to be told to shut up(nicely) and stay in your lane… Theres just no changing cultures in some places.

Stay in your lane. I hear variations of that a lot these days. That really resonates with me.

 

[Rroff]

So I've been helping another team's manager out and interviewing for an IT service analyst role for him. Basically we shortlisted from ~50 CVs, took 9 people forward for interviews. 2 showed up, one was "ill", the rest ghosted or didn't show up after accepting the interview.

The 2 who showed up were good candidates and we passed them forward for a second interview directly with the hiring manager - one has declined.

A) WTF is wrong with people these days they can't pick up the phone and say they're not coming to an interview? Rude and it makes a terrible impression.

B) WTF is my company doing to put so many candidates off? They must be paying absolute **** to be honest. Along with me hiring 2 people last October and one simply delaying and then not showing up for the job, I'm starting to think it's all the leadership/HR's fault we can't get any ****ing staff.

We've had a similar experience recently, a lot seems to have come down to a couple of people in the recruitment chain who weren't really doing their job properly and hence filtering this stuff out before it got to department level:

Was going to write a long rant but long story short it seems a lot of the recruitment issues I mentioned recently come down to certain people, especially when it involved agencies, basically doing the minimum and forwarding and/or signing off on the first non-terrible candidate instead of narrowing it down to the best...

On the flip side I made some decent money over the Christmas period from the overtime sorting out the mess but not sure it is worth the headache.

But generally there seems to be a lot of people with poor attitudes, time wasters, very disengaged from working, etc. out there these days and/or people playing the game in one way or another who are just a pain in the rear. We did another round of recruitment recently which went a bit better, one very good person and one who is OK but needs to bring their standards up a lot and has no interest in doing so. I came across one of the managers one day during the process after having 3 interviews in a row came out the last one and was just facepalming in frustration and venting about how they even managed to dress themselves in the morning...

 

[rypt]

Interesting update... a potential internal opportunity opened up in the US, as their team manager is leaving to another business area.

So now I need to have a serious think if I want to go for that role and emigrate to US ..

Small update - it has also been"suggested" to me by my current manager that I should apply for that role in the US (which would be to be his equivalent and run the US team).

My partner is also happy for us to move to US if this opportunity does materialise.

I have some time setup next week with our senior manager in the US while I'm out there on business - where I'm going to say that I want this role .. and will see how things for from there.

 

[LuckyBenski]

We've had a similar experience recently, a lot seems to have come down to a couple of people in the recruitment chain who weren't really doing their job properly and hence filtering this stuff out before it got to department level:



But generally there seems to be a lot of people with poor attitudes, time wasters, very disengaged from working, etc. out there these days and/or people playing the game in one way or another who are just a pain in the rear. We did another round of recruitment recently which went a bit better, one very good person and one who is OK but needs to bring their standards up a lot and has no interest in doing so. I came across one of the managers one day during the process after having 3 interviews in a row came out the last one and was just facepalming in frustration and venting about how they even managed to dress themselves in the morning...

I do have the same concerns about staff now, definitely. My 2 direct reports are very hard to motivate despite knowing they're capable of more, and certainly could grow over time. I just don't know how to get them to give a **** really.

Update on the hiring front, we have relisted a job I hired for last October. I made offers to 2 candidates, one started and one messed us around for a month before failing to deliver when we made an ultimatum. We listed the job for about 3 weeks over Easter and got 2 applications, one of which we interviewed last time.

I despair. Something is wrong and I don't know where to look.

 

[HangTime]

One thing I found that helps is physically sitting down with the primary recruiters for your roles (whether that be internal or external, but particularly internal) and going through:

• What you are looking for (essential vs nice to have. Challenge yourself on essential, if it's more than half a dozen bullets it better be a specialist senior role)
• What you NOT looking for
• What the recruiter is looking for so you can correct them if necessary (I work in a fairly incestuous niche of a particular industry where some recruiters just assume by default that it would be essential for any candidate to have experience in our niche. Whereas for me that was a nice to have and I want to cast the net wider for technical roles.. I hired a great junior dev that had no experience of our industry but was smart and good at problem solving etc).
• Walking through some example applications and explaining why you think they are a good/bad fit so they can take that forward when pre-screening other applications

 

[jon86]

Small update - it has also been"suggested" to me by my current manager that I should apply for that role in the US (which would be to be his equivalent and run the US team).

My partner is also happy for us to move to US if this opportunity does materialise.

I have some time setup next week with our senior manager in the US while I'm out there on business - where I'm going to say that I want this role .. and will see how things for from there.

Very exciting! I moved to the USA with an employer about a decade ago and still love it here!

Just be aware that the US immigration system does not recognise partners (unmarried long-term relationships), meaning that if you were to get an employer-sponsored visa to move to the USA, your partner wouldn't get one off the back of yours unless you were both married.

 

[rypt]

Just be aware that the US immigration system does not recognise partners (unmarried long-term relationships), meaning that if you were to get an employer-sponsored visa to move to the USA, your partner wouldn't get one off the back of yours unless you were both married.

Yeah aware of that... it's about time we got married anyway, so the timing kind of works out on that front too.

 

[randomshenans]

I'm in that awkward phase at work of waiting to hear I have no job and they have removed all responsibilities from me, which is great haha

In this time though, my boss is obviously trying to find places I can provide some value so dropped me into our portfolio management team. The person managing the team currently is doing so 50% of the time and in her words "they need help in focus and prioritization" because they are all over the place. It's still objective setting time (lol we're ******* in Q2 ffs) for the team, so was asked to go and sort that out with them.
Issue is, the little german fella running the team is a bit controlling and seems to think I'm there to use as an extra resource to do things he doesn't want to.

Since I give zero *****, I was like no mate, this isn't what I'm here for. You asked me to do something I don't agree with and I was asked to help with focus and this isn't doing that, in fact I think it's the opposite.

I brought the two of them together and was like, you need to talk and work out what you really want me to do. Grow some balls.

I simply cannot be ****** with any of this utter BS that people waste all this time on.

 

[randomshenans]

I brought the two of them together and was like, you need to talk and work out what you really want me to do. Grow some balls.

Might have escalated this one a little bit today...

Spoke to my boss, she was like "I was hoping you guys could work together, not him tell you what to do..." I was like yea, he can't do that he's got issues and then laid out all my experiences working with him and also shadowing their team the last 4 weeks. He's an insecure man who is controlling and gatekeeps information to try and stay relevant and powerful, when he's nothing but a useless, spineless **** who treats his team mates like ****.
I said it much nicer.
Turns out, one of the 2 other team mates reached out to me and told me he has been to HR and is currently in a whole process with them about not being able to work with him, too. The other team mate also told me she felt he was holding information back and not managing properly. It's so ****** it's beautiful... purely because it's not my team, I'm getting notice next week, so I can say it how it is and **** the politics.

I had a team meeting with them and tried to take him, the manager, through the work I did and he refused to listen and said we'd do it today in our leadership meeting.
Come to today's meeting I asked him about the work I did and he said he scanned through it but didn't have a chance to go through it properly and he'll just redo it from scratch. I called him out and said he should have maybe looked at it, would have saved him time. Turns out I checked the analytics and he didn't even open it. So I sent an email saying he was controlling, abrasive, incapable of listening to those around him and I refused to work with him in any capacity. Which CC'd my boss.

He's the Director for Portfolio management. His 2 direct reports are Ass. Directors, as am I and his boss is the Exec Dir of operations. He's not some low level manager, but this guy is a total lemon. He has complete small man syndrome and is so insecure, he has to be, which is why he tries to gatekeep and control everything.

Had a long ass meeting with my boss and documented all my feedback on paper and it was well received, or so she said. Turns out they had an HR meeting today about him as well so I'm sure this lot came at a BEAUTIFUL time for the whole thing.

If I can do anything before they get rid of me, I'll clear out some of the **** toxic behaviour, as long as they actually take action... not sure anyone has the spine to do that though.

/essay out

 

[D.P.]

Very exciting! I moved to the USA with an employer about a decade ago and still love it here!

Just be aware that the US immigration system does not recognise partners (unmarried long-term relationships), meaning that if you were to get an employer-sponsored visa to move to the USA, your partner wouldn't get one off the back of yours unless you were both married.

Also, if you were to get an H1B visa that doesn't entitle your spouse to work, only reside

 

[Stu999]

I love these job adverts that have required skills of “amazing” this, “excellent” that. The salary you say? Minimum wage of course.

 

[malachi]

I love these job adverts that have required skills of “amazing” this, “excellent” that. The salary you say? Minimum wage of course.

You be lucky if they state salary.

 

[Throrik]

You be lucky if they state salary.

DOE: Minimum wage 9 times out of 10.

 

[NickK]

Crazy times. Had a mad rush to pull together the roadmap for this year and a rough business case (Q2.. this is what happens when you have two micro managing bosses that disagree with their asks). This place has no concept of measuring or tracking ROI which makes the finance folks really difficult and thus no alignment. Add to this we have the decentralisation, simply means I had a feeling we'll get mothballed and as product really isn't much without a business case funding a roadmap.. with the minimum budget being quoted as sustain and no new development.. I suspect this sub-18 month employee will suddenly find themselves looking for a new role. It's whack and it's not simply our area..

Anyway I think Monday I'll start looking. I have some gardening todo this weekend

 

[HangTime]

I love these job adverts that have required skills of “amazing” this, “excellent” that. The salary you say? Minimum wage of course.

This is probably a whole separate can of worms that could get quite emotive but one reason for this is the spiralling minimum wage, that is effectively reducing the differential in pay between traditional minimum wage jobs and slightly more advanced jobs that haven't seen an increase in salary anywhere near the same proportion. Essentially it is 'concertinaring' (if that's even a verb) the bottom end of the job market so a job that used to pay maybe 30% more might now only pay 10% more due to the huge rises in min wage. Or to put that in numbers, a job that used to pay say £15k now pays over £20k whereas a job that used to be £20k is now £22k. I've made those numbers up but you get the idea.