Thought about Space

[kwerk]

If when you look through a telescope at distant galaxies, what you see happened millions of years ago because the speed of light is quite slow.

The universe is also expanding so the galaxies are getting further away. Eventually they will be so far away that it will be too far for even light to reach us. If you think of the speed of light as the maximum speed of information transmission, no information could be exchanged with those galaxies.

In effect those galaxies are now in separate universes. It's beyond the range that information can be exchanged with our one so they cant effect each other.

 

[kwerk]

Universe isn't spaced based on how far information can travel though.
Lets call us the Alpha Quadrant and them Beta, Delta onwards

Well it's sort of a way to conceptualize a multiverse. It's still in "our" universe but there is no possible way to see it, or affect it, it's completely isolated. There is no causal interactions possible between them not even on a quantum level. It might as well be another separate universe.

 

[kwerk]

What about this though.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18443160

kd

That gets more in to time/relativity. I don't actually believe the galaxies are moving apart, I believe the distance in between them is actually being stretched out relative to where matter exists. If you imagine space as a 3D lattice of planck length degrees of freedom, matter compresses them which we see as mavity. According to holographic principle there is a finite number of points on the lattice though, so they get pulled from somewhere else which gets stretched out and runs at a different time speed. Entropy is the process of gobbling up these degrees of freedom so to speak.

If you can compress/stretch space like this drive does, then you could jump through space (actually more like time) very quickly.

I wonder if the stretched part reaches a point where it just "snaps" and breaks off to a new universe. The degree of freedom becomes so stretched that information cant jump across. That would be the holographic horizon.

 

[kwerk]

makes me wonder what would happen to the earth is they actually built that drive and revved it up. I think it would have to be started up in deep space, because for the space it compresses there is a corresponding part stretched.

 

[kwerk]

How are they completely isolated? Meteors/comets/spaceships could still travel to/through them?

Eventually it would get "stuck". Basically the part of space it enters is expanding faster than time can exploit. Imagine jumping out of a plane, but the ground is moving away from the plane faster than you are falling.

 

[kwerk]

Assuming no annoying interactions conservation of energy says this is just wrong. It might be in the radio spectrum when it gets to us but it'll still be a photon from the far side of the universe.

What I mean is it takes 1 planck time or whatever for a photon to move one discrete degree of freedom in the universe, a planck length.

When space gets stretched between masses (between galaxies), from our perspective it now takes 1000 planck times to move a degree of freedom. From the photons perspective it still takes 1 planck time.

Eventually it becomes so stretched that it essentially takes infinity planck time to move one planck length, from our perspective. The energy is still there but it can't ever reach us (unless we can fiddle with the fabric of space like that warp drive does).

 

[kwerk]

How could you tell one from the other with no frame of reference?



'Space' has a minimum of 4 dimensions and if string theiory is correct many more than that. A Planck length is defined as the smallest discernible unit length in the universe. Smaller than a Planck length is meaningless. So what would compressing it mean?
What about anti-matter does that expand your Planck lattice?

the 4th dimension is time, or more like probability.

Compressing a planck length just means it is shorter relative to where it got stretched out. Like how matter clumps together because of mavity. Is it really clumped together or has the space in between the matter compressed?

At the most extreme you have a black hole where space could be piled on top of itself it's so compressed. It sucks the degrees of freedom from space in to a super compressed mavity hole.

 

[kwerk]

So the empty space between galaxies (which is about as close to a vacuum as you'll ever see) is now responsible for causing light to come to a complete stop?
Even though a fundamental tenet of modern physics is that the speed of light in a vacuum is constant?

Light from the galaxies beyond the horizon has stopped from our perspective.

If you're on a spaceship that travels at the speed of light flying from one of those galaxies eventually you'll hit an area of space where you "stop" but really you are still moving, it's just one second of your time equals trillions years of your destination's time, and since their time is running faster the time gap is ever growing. You can never ever get there.

The speed of light is just the maximum information processing speed of the universe. It's always constant where you are.

 

[kwerk]

They used to think the universe expansion is slowing down, in keeping with classical physics and momentum. But Hubble discovered that the expansion is speeding up and the farther things are apart the faster the expansion is speeding up.

if you plotted distance to expansion speed on a big enough scale on a graph it would be an exponential curve. When the curve goes vertical that is what I'm talking about. It has passed the horizon of information exchange and might as well be a separate universe.

It happens because of the relative time differential from the densities of quantum degrees of freedom I described.

It's like a cellular automata but the cells are being stretched/compressed with the movement of the information. The cellular density is much higher where the information is.

 

[kwerk]

Here's an interesting video where they slow down the speed of light to the speed of a bicycle. They shoot a laser in to a super cooled material (Bose Einstein Condensate).

Or my way of describing it, they sucked the degrees of freedom out of the BEC, and put them somewhere else (where the heat from the BEC creation is dissipated to). So when the light from the laser hits this space, there are fewer degrees of freedom so time slows down.

 

[kwerk]

So how this "warp drive" would work is it sucks the degrees of freedom from behind the engine, and moves them to the front of the engine, which speeds up time in front of the ship. You're overclocking spacetime!

BTW I posted about the drive a week before it was in the news. I've been reading about it for a couple years it makes perfect sense to me with holographic principle and entropic mavity and information theory.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=22719843#post22719843

 

[kwerk]

If all points are expanding away from all other points then the further away two points are from each other the faster they'll be expanding away from each other, surely.

The points aren't expanding away from each other, mass is sucking them towards itself (mavity). If ALL points were expanding we wouldn't even notice it, because it's relative.

There is some evidence that the center of our galaxy is a massive black hole. Think of it as sucking the "points" out of the space between our galaxy and the next one. Now think of it as sucking TIME out of that space.

 

[kwerk]

I don't think space is that actually that huge, the amount of information between us and the next galaxy stays the same, the gap might get bigger but nothing new is being put there. Time is getting dilated relative to us giving the appearance of an ever increasing distance. What is distance but the time it takes information to reach somewhere?

I'm sure when scientists figure all this out in to a coherent "theory of everything" (i reckon entropic mavity is the right direction) it will turn out to be mind blowingly elegant in it's simplicity.

 

[kwerk]

 

[kwerk]

except point A is separating from point B at exponentially increasing speed because of the time differentials. The further away it gets the faster it is moving away. Eventually point C will be separated from both points too. Once the inflation speed starts going straight up on the exponential curve (i.e. the distance to the horizon has been reach) it is basically infinity distance away. It's gone forever, even if you tried to relay through a half-way point C. There can be no information exchanged either way ever again even if you move towards it at light speed. It has basically forked off as an independent sub-universe.

 

[kwerk]

Kwerk,

You have such a misunderstanding of physics words fail me, you have totally got the wrong end of the stick.

These are all pretty well accepted in physics:

The universe is expanding.
The further apart things get, the faster they inflate away.
There is temporal curvature/stretching going on in between the things.
Information "travels" at the speed of light.
There is a cosmic horizon where the rate of inflation exceeds the speed of light 9and information).
Information can not pass that horizon (sort of like a black hole).

All I'm saying is once information has crossed the horizon it is basically catapulted an infinite distance away and might as well not exist anymore. It's essentially broke off in to a different universe.

What people seem to be tripping up on is the fact the horizon is relative to your current position, but that doesn't mean you can ever retrieve information that has passed the horizon.

 

[kwerk]

Cant be bothered go into it as im off out now, but your comment I skim read about 'jumping out of an air craft and the ground speeds away' in an attempt I assume to explain expansion is incorrect.

You fail to consider the plane, the space between the plane and the person jumping out are expanding as well, hell us sitting at the computer now are expanding right now, its not perceptible but its happening.

So the galaxies are drifting further apart sure, but its not as simple as that.

What will really bake your noodle is, if everything is expanding 'equally', thus the relative distance shouldn't change, because it you and the object are expanding, yet the galaxies are measurably getting more distant, may blue screen your mind,lol.

This might explain it better than falling out of a plane.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/hubble.html

I already went over this earlier. Objects are not expanding, they are contracting if anything. Empty space is expanding. More precisely the time within it is dilating. It's a fundamental principle that mavity bends space-time. When you get in to entropic mavity, it's not even mavity it's entropy condensing these quantum level degrees of freedom to exploit maximum microstate probabilities.

Where there is matter/mavity space condenses, where there is no mavity it stretches (to correspond to where it condenses). The cosmic horizon is where there is pretty much no mavity (or entropy (or time)). An entropic dead-zone.

 

[kwerk]

"Expanding from the centre"? What centre?

Only the separate galaxies appear to be expanding apart so I think the object with the most gravitational influence over you would be the centre of your universe. Like the super-massive black hole at the centre of our galaxy. Everything else (other galaxies you can still see) have a diminishing rate of influence as the gravitational influence weakens and they drift apart. Once there they hit the boundary and there is no influence, they are essentially a separate universe.

If you were at the edge of your galaxy you would technically be closer to the your universe's cosmic horizon, but due to the exponential nature of the inflation it wouldn't make much of a difference because the nearest information beyond the horizon is infinity away and YOU don't have any gravitational influence over it, your galaxy does.

Infinity - distance from you to center of your galaxy = infinity.

"Galaxy" is a loose term though, because some galaxies are close enough to actually be increasing in gravitational/entropic influence in relation to us. In fact some of them are supposed to collide with us one day.

So "our" universe is actually contracting, the cosmic horizon will eventually be closer and closer which is totally counter-intuitive really.

"Other" universes are expanding away until the entropic chain snaps and they become irrelevant to us.

 

[kwerk]

There isn't one...everything is expanding away from everything else....including the atoms in your body.

Atoms are not expanding, the only thing expanding is empty space between huge masses. There is only evidence of redshift from other galaxies which means they are "moving away" or time is dilating between us as it gets sucked in to the respective galaxy's mavity wells. Other stuff in the milky way is not red-shifted in a way that suggests it's expanding from us.